Should I put speakers in series

[Acuity]

Hi Folks,

I am making a new home theater (dedicated room). After researching here on these forums, I have finalized and paid advance for the following equipment:

Receiver / Amp

• Marantz sr6013 7ch receiver
• Marantz mm7055 5ch amp

Klipsch speakers for a 9.4.1 setup:

• 3 fronts
• 4 surrounds
• 2 rear
• 4 Ceiling
• 1 Sub

The room is 30' x 14'6", and so the plan for 9.4.1 setup (1 sub for now - maybe add a second sub later)

My problem is this:
I have 12 channels power available to me, but I need to drive 13 channels.

Cinebels Hyderabad suggested we will run the 4 ceiling speakers using 2 channels of an amp. All speakers are 8 ohm (brochure says 8 ohm "compatible" - not sure why they put the word compatible).

I am not a technically knowledgeable, so I seek your help in advising what to do.

a. Should I put 4 ceiling speakers in series using 2 channels?
b. Should I drop 2 ceiling speakers and make it 9.2.1?
c. Buy a cheap 2ch amp - (but will main volume control work)?

I do not prefer to spend much more money, so spending another 80k on a 2ch Marantz amp is not an option.

Thanks,
Giri

 

[ktks1]

Hi Folks,

I am making a new home theater (dedicated room). After researching here on these forums, I have finalized and paid advance for the following equipment:

Receiver / Amp

• Marantz sr6013 7ch receiver
• Marantz mm7055 5ch amp

Klipsch speakers for a 9.4.1 setup:

• 3 fronts
• 4 surrounds
• 2 rear
• 4 Ceiling
• 1 Sub

The room is 30' x 14'6", and so the plan for 9.4.1 setup (1 sub for now - maybe add a second sub later)

My problem is this:
I have 12 channels power available to me, but I need to drive 13 channels.

Cinebels Hyderabad suggested we will run the 4 ceiling speakers using 2 channels of an amp. All speakers are 8 ohm (brochure says 8 ohm "compatible" - not sure why they put the word compatible).

I am not a technically knowledgeable, so I seek your help in advising what to do.

a. Should I put 4 ceiling speakers in series using 2 channels?
b. Should I drop 2 ceiling speakers and make it 9.2.1?
c. Buy a cheap 2ch amp - (but will main volume control work)?

I do not prefer to spend much more money, so spending another 80k on a 2ch Marantz amp is not an option.

Thanks,
Giri

Congrats on your purchase.

Since the usual seating positions won't be spread up beyond 15 feet, I'd say drop the surrounds from 4 to 2 and keep the rest as it is. You'll still get the immersive sphere of sound.

-ktks1

 

[Sandeepgarg907]

Isn't 6013 a 9 ch AVR?

 

[Acuity]

Sandeep
Just checked. You are right. I now wonder why Cinebels said we have to connect a pair in series. Maybe because the brochure for the receiver says it can be configured upto 11 channel system using external amp. Does anyone know if it can be configured as a 9.4 ch system.

Congrats on your purchase.

Since the usual seating positions won't be spread up beyond 15 feet, I'd say drop the surrounds from 4 to 2 and keep the rest as it is. You'll still get the immersive sphere of sound.

-ktks1

thanks Ktks
I’m going for a 135” screen so seating is starting from 14’ and going upto 27’ (3 rows)

 

[arunkvivek]

Marantz SR6013 would do 9 channels amplification. I think that the problem is that you have 11 channel pre outs and are trying to get it work for 13 channels. I recall seeing a couple of threads in AVSforum who have achieved this. @elangoas @prateekatasniya are the guys you should reach out to.

 

[Acuity]

Thank you Arunkvivek. I will reach out to them.

So I do have 14 ch of power (9 on the AVR and 5 on the amp), so it should be possible to connect 13 spkrs. Need to check if I can configure and use the AVR pre-outs while using all the speaker terminals.

 

[arunkvivek]

Sorry, I read your post thoroughly and realized that you are going to get only 7 channels of output for floor speakers and you are having 9 speakers. The ceiling speakers are not the issue. In fact you would have better output from 4 ceiling speakers as the room is long enough for good separation. What speakers are referring to when you state 4 surrounds and 2 rear? (usually you would have 2 surrounds on side wall and 2 on rear wall).

I dont think that the speakers can be wired in series as the impedance would double. You can do a parallel wiring of side surrounds to utlize the extra speakers. This would increase the sensitivity by 3 db and reduce the impedance to 4 ohms. I am not sure how audessey would calibrate the side surrounds if there are 2 speakers per side.
One more point - I think you would need an additional sub given your room size.

 

[elangoas]

I am not a technically knowledgeable, so I seek your help in advising what to do.

As other have mentioned Marantz SR 6013 is 9.2 AVR with 11.2 pre-out capability, with which you can complete 7.1.4..

6013 doesn't support 9.1.4 config (If front wides is what you are referring to).. So, no 13 channels.. But 11 channels.. (9 by AVR + 2 with external amp)

Assuming you are doing a full 11 speakers (7.x.4) set-up, AVR being 9 channels capable out of the box and you are adding 5 channels of external amplification.. That leaves 6 channels to be powered by AVR, which it should do comfortably..

c. Buy a cheap 2ch amp - (but will main volume control work)?

This works out better.. Try used amplifiers.. Yes if you pick a power amplifier, volume is still controlled by AVR..

I do not prefer to spend much more money, so spending another 80k on a 2ch Marantz amp is not an option.

They are some cheaper options aval.. Like Crown XLS 1502 for 25K.. Many on the forum have..

 

[Sandeepgarg907]

Even I am curious as to why the series should not work? If impedance of the 2 speakers is 8 ohms each, the total impedance will be 8+8 =16 ohms in series. Power amps is reduced, so more power required for same loudness. Clarity can be affected.

In parallel it will be (8x8)/(8+8)=64/16=4 ohm. Some AVRs are rated from 4 ohms also.

Please refer: https://www.quora.com/What-will-happen-if-two-speakers-are-connected-to-one-channel.

But you have 11 pre-outs, so why not use active powered speakers for side surround, or any other channel. Here you should be able to connect multiple speakers to a single channel preout, as they have built in dedicated amps. Some seniors can surely guide.

Also active surround or bookshelf or studio reference speakers can work wonderfully as ceiling, or height speakers too. Not necessary to have the round in ceiling speakers only. I feel 9.2.4 is achievable. Just understand that if you put 2 speakers on same channel, they give the same sound, so this is actually a 9.2.4 setup with 2 channel atmos and 4 speakers, not the same as 4 atmos, but very good anyway.

I would suggest 3 front, 2 +2 (active) side surround from same pre out channel (work just like the active powered subs), 2 rear, real 4 channel atmos. I think here you will be able to do with the same AVR, without any external amp as 2 channels are on active. So you have 9 passive speakers on AVR (3F, 2 rear, 4 real atmosphere), 2+2 side surround on active through 2 preouts, 1 or 2 subs on dedicated pre out. Bit more wiring required.

I might be wrong, seniors can guide better.

Maybe even use 2 more active for rear surround and free up more power for fronts.

Or use 2 channel amp on fronts, and have enough power for the rest of the setup of 11 channels. I feel there are multiple options that may work.

 

[arunkvivek]

Even I am curious as to why the series should not work? If impedance of the 2 speakers is 8 ohms each, the total impedance will be 8+8 =16 ohms in series. Power amps is reduced, so more power required for same loudness. Clarity can be affected.

In parallel it will be (8x8)/(8+8)=64/16=4 ohm. Some AVRs are rated from 4 ohms also.

Please refer: https://www.quora.com/What-will-happen-if-two-speakers-are-connected-to-one-channel.

But you have 11 pre-outs, so why not use active powered speakers for side surround, or any other channel. Here you should be able to connect multiple speakers to a single channel preout, as they have built in dedicated amps. Some seniors can surely guide.

Also active surround or bookshelf or studio reference speakers can work wonderfully as ceiling, or height speakers too. Not necessary to have the round in ceiling speakers only. I feel 9.2.4 is achievable. Just understand that if you put 2 speakers on same channel, they give the same sound, so this is actually a 9.2.4 setup with 2 channel atmos and 4 speakers, not the same as 4 atmos, but very good anyway.

I would suggest 3 front, 2 +2 (active) side surround from same pre out channel (work just like the active powered subs), 2 rear, real 4 channel atmos. I think here you will be able to do with the same AVR, without any external amp as 2 channels are on active. So you have 9 passive speakers on AVR (3F, 2 rear, 4 real atmosphere), 2+2 side surround on active through 2 preouts, 1 or 2 subs on dedicated pre out. Bit more wiring required.

I might be wrong, seniors can guide better.

Marantz AVRs are rated 8 ohms impedence. Series wiring might affect the amp as it is not rated for 16 ohm load. I agree with you on the clarity part. I dont know how audessey would record the distance if two speakers are positioned apart on the surround.

Nice idea on active speakers for additional surrounds. If it works, it would be great for OP.

@Acuity - Please check this thread to read about 4 ohms impedence & Marantz SR6013.

 

[Sandeepgarg907]

I feel the calibration in the case you use external amps or active speakers might have to be done using other means like decibel meters and ears.....

Or maybe, if used in series, calibrate with 1 set 1st, then add the other and you may be ok.

You have 11 channel pre outs, this may help a lot of flexibility and playing around.

I am for the 1st time in my life setting up any audio or video setup. My views are based on my research and understanding only. I am just advising according to my understanding, not technical. Please do use this amazing forum's members for expert advice a d be open to experimenting, it should pay.

Also do think of the room acoustic, if required. Some minimum sort of absorption panels, curtains, false ceiling, some carpeting with foam etc. may be required. This .Ay be done on a need basis after setup and calibration. Please allow the new speakers to open up for 50 to 100 hours, before doing final calibration.

 

[Acuity]

As other have mentioned Marantz SR 6013 is 9.2 AVR with 11.2 pre-out capability, with which you can complete 7.1.4..

6013 doesn't support 9.1.4 config (If front wides is what you are referring to).. So, no 13 channels.. But 11 channels.. (9 by AVR + 2 with external amp)

Assuming you are doing a full 11 speakers (7.x.4) set-up, AVR being 9 channels capable out of the box and you are adding 5 channels of external amplification.. That leaves 6 channels to be powered by AVR, which it should do comfortably..

Thanks a lot @elangoas really appreciate your inputs on this. I would still like to do 13 powered channels, preferably with existing equipment.

Can I configure it like this:
LCR + 2 front surrounds on the Marantz 5ch ext Amp
2 mid surround + 2 rear surround + 4 in-ceiling on Marantz receiver


AVR Back:

 

[Acuity]

Marantz AVRs are rated 8 ohms impedence. Series wiring might affect the amp as it is not rated for 16 ohm load. I agree with you on the clarity part. I dont know how audessey would record the distance if two speakers are positioned apart on the surround.

Nice idea on active speakers for additional surrounds. If it works, it would be great for OP.

@Acuity - Please check this thread to read about 4 ohms impedence & Marantz SR6013.

Thanks for the link... so we should never put them in parallel because it will go down to 4ohm.

But if putting it in series: will it add undue load on the channels? and not sure how the volume from the speakers will turnout - perhaps half of what we want.

Also do think of the room acoustic, if required. Some minimum sort of absorption panels, curtains, false ceiling, some carpeting with foam etc. may be required. This .Ay be done on a need basis after setup and calibration. Please allow the new speakers to open up for 50 to 100 hours, before doing final calibration.

Yes it's very important, I'm getting acoustic treatment done. Unfortunately I'm spending nearly same amount on acoustics as the entire audio system. Yet very unhappy with the vendor, because he went back on his word. First he said he will do acoustic treatment based adjusting material for frequency levels in the room (bass traps / varieties of foam / wood boards and what not), and now he says he won't do even a single frequency check or Reverberation level check. He wants a lot extra for that. Such a damn con.

Even what they are doing now has no customization or any planning for my room size after all the initial promises and charges. This below is their standard design for every project:





The are putting foam boards in the middle of side walls (black stuff.

They are putting acoustic synth (white stuff) on top and bottom of side walls. And for rear wall / screen wall it's plain acoustic synth.

(Sorry I'm venting )

 

[arunkvivek]

Thanks for the link... so we should never put them in parallel because it will go down to 4ohm.

But if putting it in series: will it add undue load on the channels? and not sure how the volume from the speakers will turnout - perhaps half of what we want.

Doing parallel wiring is preferred. Marantz let's you choose the impedence if it is going to be 4 ohms. Series wiring is not recommended.

 

[elangoas]

Thanks a lot @elangoas really appreciate your inputs on this. I would still like to do 13 powered channels, preferably with existing equipment.

Can I configure it like this:
LCR + 2 front surrounds on the Marantz 5ch ext Amp
2 mid surround + 2 rear surround + 4 in-ceiling on Marantz receiver

AVR Back:

So i understand you want to duplicate side surrounds.. Try it.. It should work from the pics you have provided..

But have you considered Bipole side surround?..

 

[Acuity]

So i understand you want to duplicate side surrounds.. Try it.. It should work from the pics you have provided..

But have you considered Bipole side surround?..

Yes... wish to duplicate side surrounds. Thanks, will try and update later if it works. A few weeks to go to run it!!

For side surrounds I’m taking a model called klipsch r14s. It looks like this, would this be bipole?

 

[elangoas]

Yes... wish to duplicate side surrounds. Thanks, will try and update later if it works. A few weeks to go to run it!!

For side surrounds I’m taking a model called klipsch r14s. It looks like this, would this be bipole?
View attachment 44080

If you are duplicating, then i think monopoles (Bookshelf) would work better..

From the images, they seem to be bipoles, as there is no mention of Dipoles on the specs.. Not very sure if two bipoles for duplicate side surrounds is a good idea..

 

[Sandeepgarg907]

I would say 1 set of bipoles might prove adequate. 2 might lead to undue interference., but Klipsch R14s do not seem to bipoles. They have only 1 driver.

Also hope your service person does not go overboard for the acoustic treatment and kill the room. Naturallity of sound is good. You have a decently large room, so a lot of the acoustics tend to take care by themselves by the false ceiling, furniture, some floor carpeting with foam and of course the peoples bodies. May just need some panels on all walls. Excessive treatment may require more sound pressure level.

How far is your seating from speakers?

 

[Indraneel]

Hi Folks,

I am making a new home theater (dedicated room). After researching here on these forums, I have finalized and paid advance for the following equipment:

Receiver / Amp

• Marantz sr6013 7ch receiver
• Marantz mm7055 5ch amp

Klipsch speakers for a 9.4.1 setup:

• 3 fronts
• 4 surrounds
• 2 rear
• 4 Ceiling
• 1 Sub

The room is 30' x 14'6", and so the plan for 9.4.1 setup (1 sub for now - maybe add a second sub later)

My problem is this:
I have 12 channels power available to me, but I need to drive 13 channels.

Cinebels Hyderabad suggested we will run the 4 ceiling speakers using 2 channels of an amp. All speakers are 8 ohm (brochure says 8 ohm "compatible" - not sure why they put the word compatible).

I am not a technically knowledgeable, so I seek your help in advising what to do.

a. Should I put 4 ceiling speakers in series using 2 channels?
b. Should I drop 2 ceiling speakers and make it 9.2.1?
c. Buy a cheap 2ch amp - (but will main volume control work)?

I do not prefer to spend much more money, so spending another 80k on a 2ch Marantz amp is not an option.

Thanks,
Giri

Thanks a lot @elangoas really appreciate your inputs on this. I would still like to do 13 powered channels, preferably with existing equipment.

Can I configure it like this:
LCR + 2 front surrounds on the Marantz 5ch ext Amp
2 mid surround + 2 rear surround + 4 in-ceiling on Marantz receiver


AVR Back:
View attachment 44073

Yes we can

 

[HTuser]

In a typical 7.1.4 layout there is no front surround. In case of 9.1.4 configuration you can have Front Wide speakers, you need AVRs which supports Front Wide.

The mid surrounds are typically at the left and right of the seating position. If you shift them to front, you may start hearing the side sounds from front.

You can refer to Dolby speaker layout

7.1.4 Overhead Speaker Setup

Follow these simple steps to optimize your home theater with 7.1.4 overhead speakers enabled with Dolby Atmos. Experience your favorite entertainment in Dolby.

www.dolby.com

9.1.4 Overhead Speaker Setup

Optimize your home theater's sound with your Dolby Atmos 9.1.4 overhead speakers by learning the role and position of your speaker system.

www.dolby.com