Should I sell my 2-day old Marantz CD5004?

vraned

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I hope the answer at the end of this discussion will be a 'no', but I'm far away from that at this point.

I purchased the Marantz CD5004 earlier this week hoping that a dedicated CDP will outwit the stereo SQ that my current setup (Sony BDP -> HDMI -> Onkyo NR 609 -> Kef Q300) delivers - which was/is very good. But that doesn't seem to be the case. In fact so far it seems to be the other way around.

I started with an analog connection between the CDP and the amp (using the CDP DAC), and then tried out the coax (using the amp DAC, which sounded better than the analog). But compared to the SQ/openness that my (affordable Rs.9K) BDP delivers via HDMI, the CDP falls way short. The difference is not subtle, its in-your-face. I've tried to test with various tracks and the difference in consistent. This was very surprising for me since all the theories point to a dedicated CDP delivering better SQ than a BDP/DVD. I'm sure someone is thinking "a dedicated stereo amp" but I seriously doubt if it will knock the socks off my current setup.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
 
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As you know,a stereo amp can sound better than AVR.You borrow a stero amp from Banglore members & check before you make final decision.
 
Frankly, I too hardly found any improvement in SQ, while playing CDs in my new CDp (6003)...... when comparing to my ancient Philips DVDp. However, there was a huge improvement in MP3 disc playback. Everything was tried on the analogue outs.
 
Frankly, I too hardly found any improvement in SQ, while playing CDs in my new CDp (6003)...... when comparing to my ancient Philips DVDp. However, there was a huge improvement in MP3 disc playback. Everything was tried on the analogue outs.

This is unusual - some other component in the chain may be the culprit.

What IC are you using?

--g0bble
 
If I had your setup, I will not buy a CD5004 and hope it to improve over my existing sound.

To have an improved playback from a dedicated CDP over analogue, you need to spend significantly more (around 1000-1200 USD) on a CDP and a good interconnect. Unless you do that, don't expect a day-night difference.


I hope the answer at the end of this discussion will be a 'no', but I'm far away from that at this point.

I purchased the Marantz CD5004 earlier this week hoping that a dedicated CDP will outwit the stereo SQ that my current setup (Sony BDP -> HDMI -> Onkyo NR 609 -> Kef Q300) delivers - which was/is very good. But that doesn't seem to be the case. In fact so far it seems to be the other way around.

I started with an analog connection between the CDP and the amp (using the CDP DAC), and then tried out the coax (using the amp DAC, which sounded better than the analog). But compared to the SQ/openness that my (affordable Rs.9K) BDP delivers via HDMI, the CDP falls way short. The difference is not subtle, its in-your-face. I've tried to test with various tracks and the difference in consistent. This was very surprising for me since all the theories point to a dedicated CDP delivering better SQ than a BDP/DVD. I'm sure someone is thinking "a dedicated stereo amp" but I seriously doubt if it will knock the socks off my current setup.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
 
The problem maybe anything from other components to even the room where you have setup your system.

If you find your BlueRay player better sounding then stick to it and enjoy your music. CD5004 is supposed to be a very good player and I am sure that you'll get a good price on this forum itself.
 
I don't think the room setup (or the other comps) is an issue. If they were then my previous setup should also have a problem.

The problem maybe anything from other components to even the room where you have setup your system.

@spirovious: I will check it out. The only problem is I don't know any Bangalore members yet ;-)

However, I'm still reeling under this experience........need to consult 'old monk' about this. ;-)
 
are you saying that bdp->hdmi->avr sounds better than cdp->coax->avr?
This is interesting as both the inputs are digital and AVRs dacs are being used. Maybe Onkyo has better dacs for HDMI inputs than those for stereo (in case there are different dacs for these inputs).
 
to my mind.. it just goes to show that to enjoy stereo music.. you need to have a stereo amp. I do not subscribe to the view the you need to spend $1000 odd on a CDP alone..

An AVR is simply incapable of letting you enjoy goold ol' 2 channel stereo.

However - if vraned finds the AVR output better - then his ears must be right as he alone is the judge.

But one cannot trash a CDP just like that without trying out a stereo amp.

I speak from personal experience. My signature will bearout where i am coming from.

In my experience a CDP is a much better source than low prioced sound cards etc.. etc..

vraned - try to loan a stereo amp from HFV forum members in Bangalore for a few days and then decide.

avidyarthy - i do not agree with your view as well. The Topping MAY BE a good amp for the price but thats not the be all and end all of everything. Try the CDP 6003 with a better stereo amp ( you may read - as more expensive.. but thats the whole point isnt it ?) The Philips DVDP will do a decent job. No point putting up a Rs 18000 CDP with a Rs 4000 amp.

Good luck !

regards,
mpw
 
One thing I have found that few of AVR cant do justice to analog in signals.
I used to find analog sound a little dull with Onkyo than digital.With Yamaha not a issue.
A stereo amp will do the best with CDp.
 
@vraned - How long have you played the CDP for. If you are using new IC's and all give a nice 100+hrs run and see how the sound changes before you make your mind up.
 
Onkyo NR 609 is not for music not even by a million miles and this holds true for any onkyo receivers, even if you connect an audio note CD player to that receiver it will still sound bad.
Receivers are meant for movie effects for people who are on a budget so using it for stereo sound is not going to help at all.

1,Sony BDP -> HDMI -> Onkyo NR 609 -> Kef Q300 = BDP acts as a transport and all DAC is done by onkyo.

2, CD5004 -> Analouge -> Onkyo NR 609 -> Kef Q300 = Analouge out passed through the bad processing of ONKYO and reaches the speakers so it is like adding bad processing to the good analog sound before it reaches the speaker. Unless onkyo has some direct pure option where it shuts off all processors for stereo music through analog input what i said holds true.

3,CD5004 -> Digital -> Onkyo NR 609 -> Kef Q300-> same as option 1,CD5004 becomes useless here.

take your BD player and this CD player and audition it with a dedicated stereo setup, then reply here.:)
 
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It's a myth that only stereo receivers can do justice to an analogue connection. An AVR can do as good as a stereo amp, so long as one knows how to use it.

A stereo receivers is straight forward to use. An AVR, by comparison, is a much complex equipment by comparison. Most people who trash an AVR just because it can do more than two-channels have not really experimented enough. An AVR can deliver as much as an stereo amp if used properly. The point that a AVR can't do justice to analogue stereo signal is invalid.

I have a number of AVRs and Stereo amps and what I am writing is based on thousands of hours of listening, including A/B comparison. I can't say AVRs are bad for stereo duty, they can be just as good.

Most people who rush to denounce AVRs forget that (1) AVRs are a great tool to build a multi-use setup (2) They replace tons of boxes and are great for people with smaller spaces (3) They are great for people starting in HiFi or with otherwise low budgets.

Most people come forward to generalize that AVRs sound trash compared to stereo amps. I have to say they have to think through it more deeply before going to generalize. Questions to ponder for everyone who thinks AVRs are rubbish.

(1) Have you compared an AVR and a stereo receiver on a fair basis?

If you are comparing an AVR costing 1000 USD and stereo receiver costing 1000 USD you need a calculator. A comparison between two receiver types at the same price point in completely unfair. Take into account what an AVR does for the money and what a stereo receiver does. Count the number of channels of amplification on an AVR vs stero. You have the freedom to discount the fact that an AVR also has tons of connectivity, switching, decoding circuitry. Still, you will be hard to justify why you should be comparing an AVR and a stereo receiver at the same price point, which just has a preamp and a power amp section, no video, no switching, no scaling, no decoding. It is clear to see that a stereo amp is doing a lot less compared to an AVR. Multiply the price of an AVR to a suitable folds before heading into a stereo vs AVR comparison. You will be surprised to find out that your opinion has changed vastly.

(2) Have you tried to get the best out of your AVR?

Most people just hear on Internet forums, mostly from people who are themselves talking on hearsay, and conclude that AVRs cannot sound good. Again, an AVR can sound just as good so long as you know how to use it. Tweak it. An AVR defaults to be a multichannel receiver. Tweak it for stereo duties and you will see it can sound just as good. Let your ear be the judge, not opinion from people who are comparing sounds from a 1000 USD AVR and a 1000 USD stereo amp.
 
I use a Sony BDP -> HDMI -> Denon 1912 -> Wharfy's 9.2 and it sounded good untill I tried a few Dedicated Stereo set up's with my wharfy's and was blown away. The diffference in SQ in the Setreo Amp setup was noticeable. But since my AVR & Speaker setup is relatively new and I am more into HT's new I dont plan to move to a dedicated Stereo Setup at the moment but definately sometime in the near future soon.

As mentioned by other members and from my own experience I would suggest you try a few dedicated stereo setups before you take any hasty decision. I was of the same opinion as you about the BDP -> AVR setup route till I heard some proper Stereo setups.

Start interacting with fellow B'lore HiFians and I am sure you will find enough members to help you check out their Stereo Setups with your BDP / CDP & Speakers.
 
spiro - did you find yamaha's bright? did you get a chance to compare with similarly priced avrs from other brands?
 
I don't think the room setup (or the other comps) is an issue. If they were then my previous setup should also have a problem.

That is more so why your room may also be a source of problem.

I'll explain with an example -
If a system lacks a flat response and say it has a dip in frequencies from 60-70 Hz. Now suppose the room where it is placed is prone to standing waves in the same frequency range, then you won't hear the fault of the system. Next if you place another system with a perfectly flat response in the same room. What you'll have is a definite boom and muddling of lower frequencies due to the room's problems.

I suggest trying the same cd player and the blueray player in another room and comparing them.
Suggestion for a stereo amplifier is also something that you should consider.

The most important thing is however your enjoyment of music. Like I had said in my last post, if you like your blueray player's sound then stick with it. :)
 
While I cannot comment on whos the culprit in the chain, but it seems pairing a dedicated CD player with amp is something not 'perfect'. Couple of technical aspects to it rather than generalised comments.
- If you are using tone control in a AVR, it will have a centre at very low LFE (somewhere around 50-60hz) and very high 'High frequencies' (20khz), not to forget a very broad turnover of frequency. Compared to that, a Stereo amp will have a LFE boost at around 100-150hz with a short turnover. Similarly 'High frequencies' will be at 10-16khz with short turnover. The reason being, movies use very high dynamic ratio compared to music. Also for music, most of the instruments do not have accentuated lows (around 40-50hz) and accentuated 'super highs' (18-25 khz). When you increase a particular tone in a stereo set-up you are actually trying to focus on a particular band (ideally) compared to AVR, where impact on a range of frequencies.
- Even if the AVR is used in 'Direct' mode, the internal components (amplification related) used are optimised for movies rather than music. The difference in list of components is long, to describe it over here.
- I presume there's no need to debate that different DACs respond to digital data differently. If so be the case, then your only concern area is AVR. I fail to understand why would you spend so much on a CDP, if you had to use it only as a transport and use the DAC of the AVR (focused to movies). Contrary when you are using the analog out of the CDP, it is being utilised properly. But the information fed to the AVR (through analog) is still processed assuming its a sound from the movie. There is no component in an AVR which can subjectively accomodate itself to a musical sound and sound from movie. I tried to avoid technical terms to explain this.

Having said all this, I still believe that AVR is a good alternative for stereo set-up, till the time you can afford a dedicated stereo set-up which can beat the sound quality produced by AVR, by a huge margin.

At the end of the day its very subjective, if one gets the marginal utility of spending few grands on a dedicated stereo set-up compared to AVR, for a comparative price range. Am I satisfied with the sound that I'm getting from the current set-up.

Just my opinion!
 
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Hi,

I have auditioned my MS Aviano-2 with both an AVR-Denon 1611 and my Marantz PM 6003, and Norge 1000 amps. The difference was not only day and night, but summer & winter. :licklips:

In both cases source was my CD 5003.

N.Murali
 
The thread starter is not comparing the AVR with sterio Amps. It is a comparison between a BDP and CDP. Yes I agree with him if he compares the CDP and BDP on the AVR. There cannot be a big noticeable difference when they are played on AVRs. But certainly the richness in SQ of CDP is observed when played on a sterio Amp. Hence as long as he uses his AVR for two channel music it makes no big difference whether he uses CD 5004 or BDP. He can do away with the CDP if he has no intentions to have a Sterio Amp.
 
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