SOUNDSTAGE - Bookshelf with a single bass driver Vs Floorstander with 4 bass drivers placed vertically

[Naveenbnc]

Hello All,

General understanding is that a BS+Sub ... performs as good as FS+Sub
If we have a sub, there is no need to go for a FS. BS should be good enough. (if i am right here)

I have a hard time convincing a bookshelf with a single bass driver can perform as good as a floor stander with 4 such bass drivers.
How does it work this way?

At least....does the floorstander has a "wider sound stage" horizontally & vertically? compared to a BS?

Because in a FS, 4 or 5 bass drivers are placed vertically, and sound is produced along its length 2 to 3 feet vertically.
But in a BS, sound is produced from a single point. (asking this for learning, and may be useful to others too)

In my current situation, im looking if "Taga Platinum B40" bookshelf can perform as good as "Platinum F60 SL" floorstander.
(of course I have a 12" sub)

Any suggestions please .... Thanks a lot in advance
Naveen

 

[tuff]

You cannot compare using number of drivers as a performance guide. The 'quality' of drivers comes into the play along with how well the crossover is designed. A bookshelf speaker with high quality woofer/tweeter will beat a FS with low quality drivers and build.
A properly designed FS will have no need for a sub IMO, which makes it easier to setup than fiddling with crossover and timbre match when using a sub. That being said, Bookshelf speakers with subwoofer gives you more control over the lower bass to tweak it to your liking, where an FS might require tweaking with an EQ or some form of DSP processing to get the right amount of bass to your liking.Pros and cons on both ends.
As far soundstage is concerned, the room has a lot to contribute so in the end regardless of what you get, proper placement and quality amplification is the key to a desirable music/movie experience.

 

[Naveenbnc]

Thank you very much tuff... Now I understand it better......that's a nice explanation......

Actually my confusion came up with a case like these.....

https://www.hifimart.com/speakers/b...mony-platinum-one-bookshelf-speaker-pair.html

https://www.hifimart.com/speakers/f...tinum-f-60-sl-floorstanding-speaker-pair.html

Both are platinum series, and both have nearly same drivers. I'm wondering if the above bookshelf when combined with a 12" sub can beat the FS. Or as good as that FS.

Or........
May be the below BS+Sub can be better than that FS...
https://www.hifimart.com/speakers/b...ony-platinum-s-40-bookshelf-speaker-pair.html

 

[elangoas]

General understanding is that a BS+Sub ... performs as good as FS+Sub
If we have a sub, there is no need to go for a FS. BS should be good enough.

IMO, what ultimately matters is the SPL (Sound Pressure Level) from the speaker whether you are using it for stereo / movies..Two areas that are critical for bass whether or not the music/movie has it - Lower freq response & SPL..

Just because a FS has more bass drivers, doesn't mean it will pump huge sound (SPL).. The output of the FS (Both Low Freq resp & SPL) will be limited by the power that it receives from the amplifier..

May be the below BS+Sub can be better than that FS...

With BS + Sub combo, you have more advantages as it will hit lower than FS & produce more SPL (Active subwoofer).. It is also a very customisable combo to any ones liking..

Both are platinum series, and both have nearly same drivers. I'm wondering if the above bookshelf when combined with a 12" sub can beat the FS. Or as good as that FS.

Yes.. It will surpass the FS as you have a 12inch sub..

 

[Naveenbnc]

Elangoas..... I was under some wrong notions .... but after reading a lot in this forum and outside....
Now I am able to come out of the idea that BS is inferior to FS. Thanks a lot to you and other seniors !!!!

As you know, I was too excited to get 3 pieces of PLATINUM LCR 60..... but finally disappointed, stocks are unavailable .....
After that failure I was inclined to go for PLATINUM F60 SL.

Now I understood FS is not always necessary.
Il wait for LCR60 ..... if its no where available, I will go with either .....

1. three pieces of PLATINUM C100 mounted vertically .....(not sure if its a good idea)
2. Platinum B40 bookshelf + C40 center
( C100 anyway may/may not have lobbing issue, technically)

Thanks a lot for guidance and inspiration !!

 

[sasank]

Il wait for LCR60 ..... if its no where available, I will go with either .....

Contact Vikram from jamsticks, Bangalore.lets see if he can help you.

 

[elangoas]

1. three pieces of PLATINUM C100 mounted vertically .....(not sure if its a good idea)

Platinum C100 is a dedicated center speaker for horizontal use..The tweeter is raised from the mid/woofers to minimise lobing issue horizontally.. If vertically used, the tweeter will be slightly from othr drivers.. Am not aware if it would be a good choice to use 3 pieces vertically..

If you receive a technical suggestion to use 3 pieces of PLATINUM C100 vertically from other FM, you should go ahead..

If it is an LCR speakers like Taga LCR 60 SL, where the tweeters & mids are in-line, then they can be used at all locations..

2. Platinum B40 bookshelf + C40 center

Yes.. This combo is also fine..

Also 3 pairs of S90 SL will also be good at all locations..

 

[Naveenbnc]

Contact Vikram from jamsticks, Bangalore.lets see if he can help you.

Hey sasank, I checked with jamsticks too its not available ....(but not sure if I spoke to Vikram in particular, il check)
Hifivision also says, the stock is unavailable in the company itself...

 

[Naveenbnc]

Platinum C100 is a dedicated center speaker for horizontal use..The tweeter is raised from the mid/woofers to minimise lobing issue horizontally.. If vertically used, the tweeter will be slightly from othr drivers.. Am not aware if it would be a good choice to use 3 pieces vertically..

If you receive a technical suggestion to use 3 pieces of PLATINUM C100 vertically from other FM, you should go ahead..

If it is an LCR speakers like Taga LCR 60 SL, where the tweeters & mids are in-line, then they can be used at all locations..



Yes.. This combo is also fine..

Also 3 pairs of S90 SL will also be good at all locations..

In platinum series, S 90 SL is the starting model & B40 is top model (and also double the price of S90 SL. )

I taught lets go with the top model B40, and not think of upgrade for at least a few years.
Here again, if S90SL is also sounds like a good enough upgrade, i will be more than happy !!! and I can go with dual subs for the same money !!!
Sasank already told S90Sl can be good too.

Its just a blind guess with specs, that B40 may sound considerably superior to S90SL
May be im looking at S90SL as inferior just because its a starting model in that series ....
(i was wrong many times earlier ... may be this time too !!!!

 

[sasank]

Hey sasank, I checked with jamsticks too its not available ....(but not sure if I spoke to Vikram in particular, il check)
Hifivision also says, the stock is unavailable in the company itself...

I know that stock isn't available anywhere.i think it's because they are busy in launching platinum v3.after some delay,finally
the new stock got imported..it is yet to clear customs.i think it will clear customs by wednesday.even I'm waiting for my speakers.vikram from jamsticks told me that once the customs clearance is done he will make an arrangement to ship my speakers directly from Mumbai to my address.he is telling that I may receive my speakers by this weekend.

 

[sasank]

@Naveenbnc where are you from?

 

[Naveenbnc]

I know that stock isn't available anywhere.i think it's because they are busy in launching platinum v3.after some delay,finally
the new stock got imported..it is yet to clear customs.i think it will clear customs by wednesday.even I'm waiting for my speakers.vikram from jamsticks told me that once the customs clearance is done he will make an arrangement to ship my speakers directly from Mumbai to my address.he is telling that I may receive my speakers by this weekend.

thats a great news bro !!!! I dont know why im feeling happy that you are getting ur speakers
I live in hyderabad kuktpally.

 

[sasank]

thats a great news bro !!!! I dont know why im feeling happy that you are getting ur speakers
I live in hyderabad kuktpally.

Thank you.im from miyapur.have you contacted Archana electronics in Hyderabad?they may have the stock

 

[sasank]

You can even try Optimus home theater from kukatpally

 

[elangoas]

In platinum series, S 90 SL is the starting model & B40 is top model (and also double the price of S90 SL. )

I taught lets go with the top model B40, and not think of upgrade for at least a few years.
Here again, if S90SL is also sounds like a good enough upgrade, i will be more than happy !!! and I can go with dual subs for the same money !!!
Sasank already told S90Sl can be good too.

Its just a blind guess with specs, that B40 may sound considerably superior to S90SL
May be im looking at S90SL as inferior just because its a starting model in that series ....
(i was wrong many times earlier ... may be this time too !!!!

Nope.. Not really.. Both being Platinum series, there is no entry model (or) top model..

If you closely look at the specs of both speakers, both have identical tweeters.. S90 SL has 5.25 inch driver, with shallow depth of 14cm and is a sealed BS..

Where as B-40 has 6.5 inch driver and is ported, with bigger dimensions so as to allow it hit lower than S90 SL.. Since you already have a 12 inch sub, S90 SL might be just fine.. Just my opinion..

Decide on what you are ultimately convinced with..

 

[Naveenbnc]

Thank you.im from miyapur.have you contacted Archana electronics in Hyderabad?they may have the stock

ooh great ... near by ... come over to my home this weekend bro .... 9849771662
Il check with Archana electronics and Optimus !!! thank you !!

 

[Naveenbnc]

Nope.. Not really.. Both being Platinum series, there is no entry model (or) top model..

If you closely look at the specs of both speakers, both have identical tweeters.. S90 SL has 5.25 inch driver, with shallow depth of 14cm and is a sealed BS..

Where as B-40 has 6.5 inch driver and is ported, with bigger dimensions so as to allow it hit lower than S90 SL.. Since you already have a 12 inch sub, S90 SL might be just fine.. Just my opinion..

Decide on what you are ultimately convinced with..

if the bigger driver is mainly to hit low end, my sub can do that !!!!!!
Thats a great news !!!!! A little push is all that needed to get convinced. big time money savings if I go this route .... !! thank you !!

 

[danielnaveen2003]

Hello All,

General understanding is that a BS+Sub ... performs as good as FS+Sub
If we have a sub, there is no need to go for a FS. BS should be good enough. (if i am right here)

I have a hard time convincing a bookshelf with a single bass driver can perform as good as a floor stander with 4 such bass drivers.
How does it work this way?

At least....does the floorstander has a "wider sound stage" horizontally & vertically? compared to a BS?

Because in a FS, 4 or 5 bass drivers are placed vertically, and sound is produced along its length 2 to 3 feet vertically.
But in a BS, sound is produced from a single point. (asking this for learning, and may be useful to others too)

In my current situation, im looking if "Taga Platinum B40" bookshelf can perform as good as "Platinum F60 SL" floorstander.
(of course I have a 12" sub)

Any suggestions please .... Thanks a lot in advance
Naveen

Not sure if the question on sound stage was answered but 1 driver is > multiple drivers as far as soundstage is concerned. When you have multiple midbass drivers sound from each will reach your ear at a different time requiring a boat load of timing corrections applied to individual drivers to maintain sound stage integrity (which will not be there in anything less than the top end models from premium brands). Most entry level speakers with multiple drivers just try to find a happy compromise.

 

[Naveenbnc]

oohh .... thas an intresting point and one more reason to go with a single driver speaker !! (unless its an advanced design from a big brand)
thanks a lot danielnaveen .....

 

[Ravindra Desai]

Hello All,

General understanding is that a BS+Sub ... performs as good as FS+Sub
If we have a sub, there is no need to go for a FS. BS should be good enough. (if i am right here)

I have a hard time convincing a bookshelf with a single bass driver can perform as good as a floor stander with 4 such bass drivers.
How does it work this way?

At least....does the floorstander has a "wider sound stage" horizontally & vertically? compared to a BS?

Because in a FS, 4 or 5 bass drivers are placed vertically, and sound is produced along its length 2 to 3 feet vertically.
But in a BS, sound is produced from a single point. (asking this for learning, and may be useful to others too)

In my current situation, im looking if "Taga Platinum B40" bookshelf can perform as good as "Platinum F60 SL" floorstander.
(of course I have a 12" sub)

Any suggestions please .... Thanks a lot in advance
Naveen

Sound stage in stereo depends on how well the Left channel and the Right channel stay isolated from each other, electrically and acoustically.
In short, sound stage will be good if there is no crosstalk.

Electrically, if you remove the left input and right speaker output and right input and left speaker output, then you should hear nothing. If you do, then you have a problem.

Acoustically, it helps if the room w.r.t the speaker placement is symmetrical. Then when you sit exactly in between the two speakers, i.e. at the apex of the equilateral triangle formed by the two speakers and you, then you will distinctly hear left only sounds from left, right only sounds from right and sound common (vocals) to both the channels from the phantom center. And in the similar manner, depending on the phase relation, other phantom spots will be formed to give you a stage of sound similar to how it was during the recording.

Now that we have defined sound stage, Let us bring BS, FS and FR (Fullrange) in the picture.
If the BS and FS have an 'ideal' and perfect crossover network, then they will be both at par w.r.t. sound stage.
FR is free from crossover related issues and should be ideal of the three.
If you have satellite FR for L and R and a SW, it is also as good since the crossover is in the bass region which is direction insensitive.

Good topic!

I will look forward to more views.

Regards,

Ravindra.