Stereo Amplifier for B&W Matrix 805

nowwhat?

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
42
Points
18
Location
Namma Bengaluru
Just joined HiFiVision a few minutes back. Folks, I need your help.

I got a pair of Bowers & Wilkins Matrix 805 bookshelf speakers from my relative that were basically lying on the floor and hadn't been used in a long time. This was paired to an Onkyo receiver which my relative also offered but he told me he felt that the receiver wasn't a good match for this speaker, so I did not take it.

Got the speakers home and connected it to my Onkyo 5.1 receiver and I felt that my ears had been opened compared to my Onkyo floor standing speakers + subwoofer. Anyway we hadn't watched a single movie in 5.1 format in years but do listen to music now and then, so I decided to sell the Onkyo 5.1 receiver and speakers which I promptly did.

As it turns out there was also a vintage 1977-1980 Marantz 170DC amplifier on sale at the same time on craigslist. So I thought I would use the sale proceeds and buy the 170DC for 20K. However the person who bought my system was a HiFiVision member and he cautioned me against buying old equipment from dealers who masquerade as hobbyists. Since he was also a DIYer, he warned that I would not be able to source a single part for that amplifier in India. I therefore canceled this plan.

So I now have the speakers but no stereo amplifier. I read up online and it seems the 805s (and B&Ws in general) prefer more current and 50-100W amps work best. Also Bi-Amping is preferred though not required. For the last couple of weeks, I have been eyeing the Marantz 7004 (for around 42K) which is more than twice my original budget but have been unable to take the plunge yet. I do have the option of getting the old Onkyo amplifier from my relative.

Would appreciate your suggestions on what to get. I am fully open to ideas. Thanks!

PS: End of the day, I want to feel satisfied that I am listening to the clearest reproduction I can. Also if I am spending 40K or more, I want to be reasonably certain that I will have no need to change the amplifier for a long time to come. Please do suggest.
 
so I decided to sell the Onkyo 5.1 receiver and speakers which I promptly did.

A very wise decision !

PS: End of the day, I want to feel satisfied that I am listening to the clearest reproduction I can. Also if I am spending 40K or more, I want to be reasonably certain that I will have no need to change the amplifier for a long time to come. Please do suggest

That speaker is quite nice. Better than its new avatar.

In the land of quality stereo amplifiers, 40k will not get you very far if you buy new.

If you look around, you should be able to get a NAD C372 for around 50k in the used market. This should work well. Also look for some cyrus amps. Make sure you get something which is powerful.
 
You have one of the best speakers ever made in history. Argueably the 2nd best(best being the 801 matrix, imho), so you must use one of the best amplifier(in the price range) to pair this with. IMO you should look for a Quad 306(or 606 mk2 if budget permits).
Also for this speaker you would need the bass alignment filter to sound them correct. Look for that too if you dont already have it.

PS- If you ever consider to sell this speaker please don't think twice to contact me :)
 
Last edited:
OMG.. trust me mate.. I envy you. :just kidding:

Congrats on obtaining speakers which have the ability to last you a lifetime.

Now about amps, these speakers needs careful matching as they are very revealing speaker with a warm and glorious midrange and a very clear (and often mistaken as harsh) metal dome tweeter.
So if you pair with an amp on the wrong side of neutral, these can sound harsh, even grating. On the other hand if you pair them with an amp too warm, the speakers can sound lifeless and waxy as they can mask the midrange details and make the bass a little too bloomy.

The correct amp will be one which is as neutral as possible, at the same time as detailed as possible, and with a good damping factor. These speakers dont need gobs of power. An amp capable of supplying a clean 50 watts into 8 ohms, with the capability of driving loads down to 4 ohms, and with around 6-10 amps of current will be good enough. Of course, higher power never hurts. But the current and damping have to be there.
Now all that is tough to get in India in 40k. But if you are willing to look at importing from abroad, then you will have better options.

Edit:
I am seeing a quad 306 on ebay uk at the very moment. It has been refurbished by quad according to the seller. And if you can pair that with a good quality passive you are set.

I am using a speaker which is one notch below the 805 matrix, with a similar tweeter and midrange but a different cabinet design. I am driving them with a quad 306 and a passive and they are a great match.

What will be your source btw.

And what koushik mentioned about the bass alignment filter, that brings down the low end by 10 hz more to 40 hz at +/- 3db, measured in an anechoic chamber. I too will suggest you stay on the lookout for that.
 
Last edited:
A very wise decision !
In the land of quality stereo amplifiers, 40k will not get you very far if you buy new.

If you look around, you should be able to get a NAD C372 for around 50k in the used market. This should work well. Also look for some cyrus amps. Make sure you get something which is powerful.

Hi square_wave,

Thanks for your prompt reply. I have a few questions.

  1. Where do people go for used amplifiers? On the web, is it only olx.in and hifivision or are there other places too? Didn't see much on craigslist and I have generally found ebay.in prices to be sky high.
  2. I have seen a wide variation in prices on olx.in. It would help me immensely if you could provide a price range.
  3. How do you service NAD or Cyrus amps in Bangalore in case something goes wrong?

I am attracted towards the Marantz PM7004 which retails for 41,750 at HiFiMart primarily because of its 1 year warranty. Can any owner give me some idea of whether it would work well with the B&W Matrix 805? Thanks!
 
IMO you should look for a Quad 306(or 606 mk2 if budget permits).
Also for this speaker you would need the bass alignment filter to sound them correct. Look for that too if you dont already have it.

Will look at the Quad 606. I need to go back to my relative's place and see if the Bass Alignment Filter is there. I hope it is because I found these can be hard to come by even in the US.

The correct amp will be one which is as neutral as possible, at the same time as detailed as possible, and with a good damping factor. These speakers dont need gobs of power. An amp capable of supplying a clean 50 watts into 8 ohms, with the capability of driving loads down to 4 ohms, and with around 6-10 amps of current will be good enough. Of course, higher power never hurts. But the current and damping have to be there.

I am seeing a quad 306 on ebay uk at the very moment. It has been refurbished by quad according to the seller. And if you can pair that with a good quality passive you are set.

I am using a speaker which is one notch below the 805 matrix, with a similar tweeter and midrange but a different cabinet design. I am driving them with a quad 306 and a passive and they are a great match.

What will be your source btw.

And what koushik mentioned about the bass alignment filter, that brings down the low end by 10 hz more to 40 hz at +/- 3db, measured in an anechoic chamber. I too will suggest you stay on the lookout for that.

Thanks for the ebay link and a very informative post.

I am restricting myself to a good amplifier (integrated or amp + preamp) for now even if it costs 40K or somewhat more. My plan was to buy a good integrated amplifier and use my Android tablet as the source to play FLAC files. I know most in the forum will slam me for not using a DAC, but this is what I can afford at the moment.

I prefer your idea of getting an amplifier that supplies clean 50 watts into 8 ohms with 6-10 amps of power. I really don't need so much sound that I bring the house down.

Only problem is except that ones that you, koushik and square wave have told me, I have no idea what amps are in this category.
 
You have one of the best speakers ever made in history. Argueably the 2nd best(best being the 801 matrix, imho), so you must use one of the best amplifier(in the price range) to pair this with. IMO you should look for a Quad 306(or 606 mk2 if budget permits).
Also for this speaker you would need the bass alignment filter to sound them correct. Look for that too if you dont already have it.

PS- If you ever consider to sell this speaker please don't think twice to contact me :)

Kaushik, you are very mistaken about the 805 matrix's needing a bass alignment filter. The BAF works only wih the 801, 802 & 803.

The 805 does not have a big enuff woofer to allow the BAF to go down to 14hz.

I haves been a 801 matrix S3 owner for years. And I do feel that these are the best from B&W!
 
@OP: Give your 805 matrix the cleanest amplification that you can. Look at Bryston 3BSST or 3BSST2.

Also consider the newer Quad 909. The older 606 are muddy and will show up as such. The bass will also sound wooly.
 
Kaushik, you are very mistaken about the 805 matrix's needing a bass alignment filter. The BAF works only wih the 801, 802 & 803.

The 805 does not have a big enuff woofer to allow the BAF to go down to 14hz.

Malvai, I think the 805 matrix does allow the use if the bass alignment filter as it has a 4th order Bessel alignment in the crossover, similar to other 800 series matrix speakers (series 1 & 2). This allows the use of the electronic bass alignment filter which basically gives a 6th order Butterworth alignment response.

The series 3 speakers on the other hand have a 4th order Butterworth alignment by default and hence don't allow the use of the said filter.

Of course, how much the speaker can go down will be determined by the cabinet and the size of the woofer, but the filter will give it the advantages of a 6th order alignment in the crossover.
 
Malvai, I think the 805 matrix does allow the use if the bass alignment filter as it has a 4th order Bessel alignment in the crossover, similar to other 800 series matrix speakers (series 1 & 2). This allows the use of the electronic bass alignment filter which basically gives a 6th order Butterworth alignment response.

The series 3 speakers on the other hand have a 4th order Butterworth alignment by default and hence don't allow the use of the said filter.

Of course, how much the speaker can go down will be determined by the cabinet and the size of the woofer, but the filter will give it the advantages of a 6th order alignment in the crossover.

my bad... i think one can use it (BAF) with these!
 
I guess I am a noob on this forum and hence there is considerable delay in my posts appearing here.

I have looked at all of your suggestions and I think I have reconciled to a budget of around 40K if cash and 80K if by credit card.

In terms of used equipment, my biggest worry is what would happen in case I encounter a problem. Not only that, I feel a lot of trepidation at the thought of estimating the price and bargaining/haggling with the seller. I am also not familiar with how to get something through customs. Any information on servicing and customs would be appreciated.

Nobody has replied about the Marantz PM7004, so I guess that is out of the question. How about the Rega Brio R or the Quad Elite Integrated from HiFiMart? Please note that I have no plan to play with any other source than digital (FLAC) initially from an Android tablet and later streamed from my PC.

I am seeing that there is a Cyrus 3i for 19K, Naim Nait 5i v2, Rotel RA 970BX, etc. all on sale at olx.in.

Any clear cut advice to end my agony would be appreciated. :)
 
Whatever your Amp, Speaker and Cable be. Top of the line may be, but the basic theory remains GIGO -> Garbage IN, Garbage Out

So if your source is bad, everything is a waste- of time, money and effort.
 
Kaushik, you are very mistaken about the 805 matrix's needing a bass alignment filter. The BAF works only wih the 801, 802 & 803.

The 805 does not have a big enuff woofer to allow the BAF to go down to 14hz.

I haves been a 801 matrix S3 owner for years. And I do feel that these are the best from B&W!

The BAF is designed to work with Matrix 800, Matrix 801-S2, Matrix 802-S2, Matrix 803 (and not Matrix 803 S2), Matrix 804 & Matrix 805 : all of which have by default a Bessel 4th Order alignment. The BAF electronically converts this to 6th Order Butterworth alignment with 36dB per Oct slopes to shave-off any extraneous reverberation of the room and also lower the bass by approx half-to-one octave depending on the speaker's model.

The BAF is NOT DESIGNED to function correctly with Matrix 801 & 802 - Series-3 models and neither the Matrix 803 series-2 model as those models are by default done to 4th Order Butterworth. Adding the BAF will just topple the overall spectrum & make things worse.

Hope the OP keeps his eyes & ears open enuf to grasp this info or else - he's wasting his time with the Matrix 805s.

With 36dB/oct, the damping is also greatly superior while cone excursion & flapping are minimized, working totally to the user's advantage. And very little room treatment will be necessary, if not, practically none at all.

However, a good up-stream lineup is a must or else too many artifacts will be shown thru the system, easily mistaking the user to thinking the speakers are rubbish.

BBC mobile vans, DECCA recording vans are all equipped with this speaker.

---------------------------------
I've lived in a home where all this exists in spades & have self witnessed as a teenager - thus grew up with B&W Matrix spks.
 
Last edited:
What sort of music do you like and how do you like it? What is the size of your listening room? And also, what is it about the 805 matrix sound which appealed to you most?

80k is a good budget. Answers to those questions will help narrow down to an amp. Also note one more thing.. the onboard dac on an handheld device won't be of high quality. Sooner or later, you will have to settle for a better source.
 
You can consider Naim. What is the price there?

Rotel is already sold. Am waiting for the Naim seller to pick up the phone.

The BAF is designed to work with Matrix 800, Matrix 801-S2, Matrix 802-S2, Matrix 803 (and not Matrix 803 S2), Matrix 804 & Matrix 805 : all of which have by default a Bessel 4th Order alignment. The BAF electronically converts this to 6th Order Butterworth alignment with 36dB per Oct slopes to shave-off any extraneous reverberation of the room and also lower the bass by approx half-to-one octave depending on the speaker's model.

Hope the OP keeps his eyes & ears open enuf to grasp this info or else - he's wasting his time with the Matrix 805s.

However, a good up-stream lineup is a must or else too many artifacts will be shown thru the system, easily mistaking the user to thinking the speakers are rubbish.

2chFreak, BAF is something I am well aware of thanks to Ken Rockwell's site: B&W Bass Alignment Filter. I didn't pay too much importance to it though until now. I hope to go back to my relative's house this weekend and look for it.

I knew I would get slammed for the source, but right now I want to focus only on the amplifier. Once that is done and depending on the financial situation, I would like to focus on the next piece. As far as possible at this moment I do not want my limited budget to further constrain my choice of amplifier by adding too many things.

tirthankar: In terms of music, generally I like classic rock with some Indian melodies thrown in ((Led Zepp, Doors, Norah Jones, BucketHead, Harry Chapin, Hindi OSTs, etc). I am not much into classical music. Room is a a hall that opens to another bigger hall. The smaller hall where I plan to place the speakers would be around 300-350 sft. I am planning to place them with their backs toward the larger hall and facing a glass door. Not really sure if any of this is ideal.

What I liked most about the 805 was probably the tweeter which sounded detailed to me even though some people find it harsh. With my Onkyo amplifier I initially did not get any bass but when I cranked up the volume, that too come to life. Generally I liked the level of detail hearing sounds I hadn't heard before.
 
@OP: Give your 805 matrix the cleanest amplification that you can. Look at Bryston 3BSST or 3BSST2.

Also consider the newer Quad 909. The older 606 are muddy and will show up as such. The bass will also sound wooly.

extremely sorry Sir to disagree on this.

Quad 909 (made in china by IAG) is muddy, woolly and a complete mismatch for this speaker. On the other hand, there had been 2 types of Quad 606 : 606 from the 1984 - 1995 era having E/I transformers while the 2nd Gen of 606 made for just 15 months during 1995 - 1996 before Quad was taken over by Mission UK possesses the best ver of this amplifier, with totally updated Toroidal Transformers & much higher rated Caps.

A Bryston too will work and its purely upto the OP to figure out what he wants. Jeff Rowland Model 1 or Model 2 has also worked well with the Matrix 805. So has the Original Krell KSA-50 or KSA-100. Or a Levinson 27 or even 29. Or the Sugden SPA-4 amp or the Threshold SA-3, S-200, S-300 ...

Oprions are enormous. Bi-wiring is mandatory. Or else treble is ragged and rough, will def bite into you.
 
I hope the OP i[ @ nowahat? ] is aware that there are 2 shapes in which the Matrix 805 exists - i.e. 805-H and 805-V. There's a Horizontal ver mainly to have them sit on Studio Desks on Monitoring Desktops while there are Vertical ver meant for stand mounting.

Ideally, vertical are the ones for the home and thus addressing the audiophile. A sound-anchors sort of a stand or a Partingdon Dreadnaught sort is strongly recommended.

Its unfortunate that B&W Loudspeakers UK PLC did not go that "extra mile" and create the sort of accessories their products mandates but its only the after-market ppl that addressed these issues to the last stop.

Such is the cult following that for e.g. when it comes to stands, its Sound-Anchors all the way. When it comes to BAF, options are B&W or Golden Flutes by JPS Labs or the Krell BAF that D'Agostino built for his own pair & later started to market it under request from B&W Loudspeakers. Some users have also gone for custom built or modded ones that am aware.

Here's a lot of info for the OP. I am not trying to pin down anyone - rather - put forth the pros & cons of these devices that I have grown up seeing at home as a teenager.

Hence - all seniors (kindly excuse incase I said anything that MAY have sounded offensive). My apologies !!

Best wishes ..
 
Last edited:
@2channelfeak....
all good info... all true...

except where will the OP find any of the stuff you have mentioned...

till 2 weeks ago i was a 801 S3 owner... and in the 2 years I owned them, I tried getting my hands on the BAF... but could not. another FM (no longer on HFV) helped me get a Krell FPB 200 and that made my 801's sing... then I added a JRDG Coherence 2 preamp to the mix and it was even better....

but then, a more modern, that too an integrated amp, like the Accuphase E 460, I got true class....

The thing is, the levinson, Krell, JRDG are good... but the models you've mentioned are now soooo old, and in a dusty, hot country, these old Class A amps are neither in top form ( in fact, they'd be on their last legs), nor are they the last word on SQ.

I tried a newer Bryston 4 BSST2 and it pretty much bettered the older Krell on everything, including the lowered electricity bills!

Just my 2 cents....
 
your thread is long
i have no time to read the entire thread but since B&W is my fav speakers
my option for those is using classe or rotel amps
you pair B&W with any one of them then you ll find the magic

For your info
B&W ROTEL CLASSE are built by same manufacturer
 
Get the Wharfedale EVO 4.2 3-Way Standmount Speakers at a Special Offer Price.
Back
Top