Subwoofer Conundrum

[chander]

Dear All,

As always I am back with another problem regarding what to buy.
Current Setup - Quad S1, AL6000A, BS Node 2i.

I have a small office - around 140 Sq Ft. with average height ceiling. I have a confusion on what to buy. The 2 options I am considering are REL TZERO MKIII (I had a previous version of TZero) & REL T5X.

The conundrum is - my speakers are rated at around 58Hz, & John Hunter the designer of REL says - that TZero MKIII should be considered with small speakers that are rated around 50-60Hz & T5X should be considered for speakers that go to around 45Hz. The video I am referring to -

Now the questions -
1 - If what he says is correct - then TZero MKIII is better suited for my use compared to the T5X?
2 - Which of these will be an easier to integrate as a subwoofer. I had a previous version of TZero and I remember I could throw that thing anywhere with minimal to No fuss.
3 - I am not a bass head - so I know TZero will be enough. I am looking for clean extension - that goes down to 40Hz; if 30Hz it will be a bonus.
4 - I am not looking for a lot of output - I listen mostly well under 70DB.

Please note - I am not looking for suggestions regarding other subs, just an opinion on which of these would be better in my situation as the price difference is around 30K and if I do not have to spend that additional 30, I will be a happier.

Thanks!

 

[sandeepmohan]

3 - I am not a bass head - so I know TZero will be enough. I am looking for clean extension - that goes down to 40Hz; if 30Hz it will be a bonus.

You know what you want in terms of sound. That means, the new Tzero should work.
On the other hand, you say going below 30Hz will be a bonus. In this case, you are better of with the T5X.
If you're saying the first TZero you owned worked fine, you're not a bass head and you don't blast your music, then why bother blowing up another 30K!

 

[chander]

On the other hand, you say going below 30Hz will be a bonus

Thanks for replying, by the statement above I do not mean I want to go down below 30Hz. I just wanted to convey, if I can get clean bass going in 30s >40s, that is just groovy gravy as it will help in the classical & orchestra music I listen to. That is just a "great to have".

The requirement is to get 40Hz clean and punchy

 

[chander]

A few more questions here if anyone wants to chime in -

Dual Sub with Bluesound Node 2i?
1 - Is it possible to connect dual subs with BS node 2i- by using an RCA - to Dual RCA cable and using the Low level input on RELs?
2 - If so what are the possible pit falls of such a setup?

Dual subs with Audiolab 6000a? As the said amp has an RCA Pre-out.
1 - Possible to connect dual subs - using each RCA out as left and right?
2 - Is it possible to set a crossover point in AL 6000a? Anyway?

 

[sandeepmohan]

2 - If so what are the possible pit falls of such a setup?

No pitfalls, though I must add that REL are one of handful of sub woofer brand that are of the opinion that for stereo use, you are better of using high level inputs.

2 - Is it possible to set a crossover point in AL 6000a? Anyway?

I have no experience with that Audiolab. That said, RCA Pre-outs, unless they are titled as sub woofer pre outs typically don't permit setting a cross over point.

 

[efernand1]

Dear All,

As always I am back with another problem regarding what to buy.
Current Setup - Quad S1, AL6000A, BS Node 2i.

I have a small office - around 140 Sq Ft. with average height ceiling. I have a confusion on what to buy. The 2 options I am considering are REL TZERO MKIII (I had a previous version of TZero) & REL T5X.

The conundrum is - my speakers are rated at around 58Hz, & John Hunter the designer of REL says - that TZero MKIII should be considered with small speakers that are rated around 50-60Hz & T5X should be considered for speakers that go to around 45Hz. The video I am referring to -

Now the questions -
1 - If what he says is correct - then TZero MKIII is better suited for my use compared to the T5X?
2 - Which of these will be an easier to integrate as a subwoofer. I had a previous version of TZero and I remember I could throw that thing anywhere with minimal to No fuss.
3 - I am not a bass head - so I know TZero will be enough. I am looking for clean extension - that goes down to 40Hz; if 30Hz it will be a bonus.
4 - I am not looking for a lot of output - I listen mostly well under 70DB.

Please note - I am not looking for suggestions regarding other subs, just an opinion on which of these would be better in my situation as the price difference is around 30K and if I do not have to spend that additional 30, I will be a happier.

Thanks!

If I understand correctly, you are looking to ensure that you have playback across all frequencies and get a little punch / low bass frequencies / bass presence at all volume levels, be it loud or even soft.

The Quad S1 are a little fussy for placement in order to get the best performance & playback. No direct experience but that is what I read about them over multiple reviews. Having 4-inch drivers only deliver mid bass and hence having a subwoofer will make a huge difference.

The Audio Lab AL6000A has pre outs which means all frequencies are sent and not dedicated subwoofer signals. High Level inputs to be used in the connection chain as already highlighted by @sandeepmohan would be the appropriate way.

Not to market my SVS SB1000 sub here but I too have a limited space (250 sq ft) and honestly the sub is an overkill for me. the only reason I upgraded from a BIC America PL 200 to the SVS is due to the compact size, connectivity options and the 5 years no questions asked warranty. I like presence bass and whatever volume I use (Loud or soft even at 2am listening to Spotify) I get the little clean punchy thump. No Jarring or unwanted vibrations which some bass heads would appreciate.

Bottomline in my personal experience, having a bigger driver in a sub really gives the punch and clean bass most would look out for. Between both the models you are looking at, IMHO, I feel you would be better off with the REL T5X

Getting back to reality, if this is strictly meant for your office and you spend average 10-12 hours in that space and not continuously listening to music, it may make sense then to save the extra 30k! Looking at specs for both models, 6.5-inch v/s 8-inch, Driver cone material, Sub Power output .. 32hz v/s 37hz as mentioned in website would not really matter unless you are gonna listen very closely during office work!

Hope this helps!

 

[arj]

The general rule is get the best sub you can and that would be the T5. The crossover point and gain can be adjusted and setup accordingly but i believe that will give you better quality due to its bigger driver.

Of course you can be very happy with the smaller sub as well ,since both have drivers bigger than your speakers woofer.

 

[aeroash]

Dear All,

As always I am back with another problem regarding what to buy.
Current Setup - Quad S1, AL6000A, BS Node 2i.

I have a small office - around 140 Sq Ft. with average height ceiling. I have a confusion on what to buy. The 2 options I am considering are REL TZERO MKIII (I had a previous version of TZero) & REL T5X.

The conundrum is - my speakers are rated at around 58Hz, & John Hunter the designer of REL says - that TZero MKIII should be considered with small speakers that are rated around 50-60Hz & T5X should be considered for speakers that go to around 45Hz. The video I am referring to -

Now the questions -
1 - If what he says is correct - then TZero MKIII is better suited for my use compared to the T5X?
2 - Which of these will be an easier to integrate as a subwoofer. I had a previous version of TZero and I remember I could throw that thing anywhere with minimal to No fuss.
3 - I am not a bass head - so I know TZero will be enough. I am looking for clean extension - that goes down to 40Hz; if 30Hz it will be a bonus.
4 - I am not looking for a lot of output - I listen mostly well under 70DB.

Please note - I am not looking for suggestions regarding other subs, just an opinion on which of these would be better in my situation as the price difference is around 30K and if I do not have to spend that additional 30, I will be a happier.

Thanks!

Is the TZero adequate for the current situation? perhaps. Will a T5X be overkill? Absolutely not. A bigger driver is almost always better. With proper placement, both subs can be well integrated.

In the future, if your current situation changes and find yourself in a bigger room, you'll always have the flexibility of the bigger sub. A bigger sub can be played softer, but a smaller driver cannot be pushed as hard. Consider this as an investment that also perhaps covers any future eventuality.

 

[chander]

Thanks to all who chimed in. My confusion however was created due to the video I posted where the designer suggests that if the speaker is rated to drop down around 60Hz TZero would be better as T5 will not be able to go as high.

So if I use the High Level input on the T5 I should have some gap - between the 58Hz on my speakers and 45Hz odd where John Hunter suggest T5 should be at the crossover?

Using low level through BS Node 2i, takes care of that and then it should be subwoofer agnostic as I can have the speakers cutoff at around 120/150 Hz and have the subwoofer come in at it's peak cross over point of 120/110 Hz.

But for high level as per John Hunter - will T5x won't work?

 

[keith_correa]

The requirement is to get 40Hz clean and punchy

For 140 sq.ft, and given your bass requirements/preferences, the TZERO MKIII is a no brainer, IMO. The larger one is serious overkill!

 

[insane79]

A few more questions here if anyone wants to chime in -

Dual Sub with Bluesound Node 2i?
1 - Is it possible to connect dual subs with BS node 2i- by using an RCA - to Dual RCA cable and using the Low level input on RELs?
2 - If so what are the possible pit falls of such a setup?

Dual subs with Audiolab 6000a? As the said amp has an RCA Pre-out.
1 - Possible to connect dual subs - using each RCA out as left and right?
2 - Is it possible to set a crossover point in AL 6000a? Anyway?

Yes, this is possible, connect blusound sub out to the Low Level input not the Lfe input of the T5x.
You will still have access to the crossover with the Low Level input so can be tuned the same way like High Level.
I have done this in my setup previous & works very good. I would get the T5x & suggest you to do the same.

 

[chander]

I would get the T5x & suggest you to do the same.

I was convinced on the T5x too, but then I saw the video referenced above and went down the rabbit hole.

Another question -

In another video referenced below, JH suggests - in case of not using the High Level Input and using Line In - set your device's sub out as high as 200Hz (around 1:50 in the video). Now if you set the sub out on Node 2i to 200 Hz and I am not really sure if the REL T5x goes to 200Hz, wouldn't there be a huge gap in the middle? -

I do not understand the rationale of JH's suggestions. In my opening post I mentioned him mentioning why Tzero should be considered for speakers that go to around 60Hz as T5X won't be suitable and now this. Am I missing something or misunderstanding his advice?

 

[sandeepmohan]

I do not understand the rationale of JH's suggestions.

I think the advise being given is more general. He does not know what speaker you are going to pair with the sub woofer or the room the system is playing. The settings he suggests are sort of ideal conditions or scenarios.

I also think you are reading far too much into these video and you should view tutorials around sub woofer setup in general. Not one specifically from REL. You will learn a lot more like this. The room, placement of your speakers plays a bit part too.

I have a subwoofer for my home theater. I have set it up more towards musical needs. Not for the bangs or gun shots for movies. My floor standers drop down to 48hz. Ideally most would cross over at 80hz and let the sub handle 80% of bass. I have crossed them over at 60hz instead. Why take away the bass from a loudspeaker that can produce satisfactory bass to a certain level. End results is that I have a setup where it feels like the bass is coming from the main loudspeaker. Not the sub woofer. The blend is seamless. On the not so positive side, anyone else who listens or watches a movie on my system will find bass underwhelming. Then again, I have tailored it to my needs. Not the person I invited over for a listen.

With some bookshelves, you may need to do a bit more work as many don't play that low. I'd say placement is even more critical here.

Another thing to note is that if you are setting the cross over on the pre amplifier or amplifier, you by pass that on the sub woofer dial. The only situation you'd use the cross over knob (or dial) behind the sub woofer is when you use a high level input. Again, the user manual of the sub woofer will explain clearly what to do. Download and read the manual of the Tzero ro T5X, whichever you are buying. I am sure they explain how to set it up based on connected equipment.

I would say that you give REL a call. Sometimes, it helps to speak to someone to clear the air or your doubts. As you are going to give them business by buying a product from then, I see no harm is getting some clarity over what is being explained in the video.

 

[chander]

Question -
If I am using the RCA out from a streamer to a subwoofer line in and out - which DAC am I using? For example -
If I send the RCA output from a BS Node 2i to a KEF KC62 line in & then using the HPF & Line out from the KC 62 to my actives - for example. Which DAC is being used? The one in the KC 62 or the one in the Node?

This is for purely academic purposes.

 

[Phew]

Question -
If I am using the RCA out from a streamer to a subwoofer line in and out - which DAC am I using? For example -
If I send the RCA output from a BS Node 2i to a KEF KC62 line in & then using the HPF & Line out from the KC 62 to my actives - for example. Which DAC is being used? The one in the KC 62 or the one in the Node?

This is for purely academic purposes.

I don't think the kc62 has a dac

 

[ajuvignesh]

Question -
If I am using the RCA out from a streamer to a subwoofer line in and out - which DAC am I using? For example -
If I send the RCA output from a BS Node 2i to a KEF KC62 line in & then using the HPF & Line out from the KC 62 to my actives - for example. Which DAC is being used? The one in the KC 62 or the one in the Node?

This is for purely academic purposes.

My guess is you will be using the DAC of blue sound Node. There isn't a analog to digital and digital to analog conversion happening inside the subwoofer. Or, am I wrong?

 

[chander]

My guess is you will be using the DAC of blue sound Node. There isn't a analog to digital and digital to analog conversion happening inside the subwoofer. Or, am I wrong?

Got my answer - analog to analog the source DAC is being used. So in this case - Node. Thanks!

 

[chander]

Why are studio subwoofers not popular for home stereo? In my opinion they should be fairly controlled?

 

[sandeepmohan]

Why are studio subwoofers not popular for home stereo? In my opinion they should be fairly controlled?

Its less about their control. Its their size that prohibits using them in a living room. Have you seen the size of an 18" sub woofer? Few have room for something as big as this, let alone a sub woofer meant for a recording studio.

 

[keith_correa]

Not "audiophile" enough!

But, if you're contemplating studio subs, take a look at the subs from the PreSonus Eris range; they're extreme bang for the buck!