The Bug has bitten!

Jaybe

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Nov 6, 2011
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Bangalore
Hi Guys !

It all started with an idea of looking for a System doing double duty for a stereo and Home theater. While many systems we heard, performed quite well for theater application, the music was not satisfying in stereo. So much so that it did not even come close to the music that had emanated from three decades old AR Speakers with NAD amplifier and Grundig Turn Table playing LPs.

Retham speakers seem to yield the best clarity and quality of sound of all the systems we heard. Doing a bit of research led me to various basic configurations of the Speakers and I knew, It is Horn Speakers or Transmission Line Speakers which have been more to our liking.

We decided to buy a Home Theater System and a Stereo system separately. To that end we almost bought Monitor Audio Silver RX6 AV12 System. However looking at the design support available on the web and the number of people putting together such Speakers, it seemed to be a doable and fun idea to build one. Going further my wife suggested that may be I can look at a system ( Speakers) which can be used both for Music and Home Theater. ( She has a vested interest as it would keep the room less populated !). She also opined that if I can build two Speakers, I can also build five and should consider doing so !

I also know that I would like to add a subwoofer each to the Stereo Speakers so that it would give sound clear and crystalline at high and mid frequencies and also Bass.
I always thought that integrating Sub Woofers to a Stereo would be a difficult task and considered the possibility of REL Sub Woofers. However George, during our conversation showed how easily that could be achieved.

I have narrowed down my choice to either a Horn Speaker using Full Range Drivers like Fostex or Ariel Speakers designed by Lynn Olson which seem to be well suited.

My request to you is to help me decide between the two and other options and ideas that I may want to explore. Any suggestions on the pitfalls to be avoided on my maiden ambitious DIY Project would be much appreciated.

I will keep you posted as the scheme unfolds.

Jayant
 
To that end we almost bought Monitor Audio Silver RX6 AV12 System.

I also know that I would like to add a subwoofer each to the Stereo Speakers so that it would give sound clear and crystalline at high and mid frequencies and also Bass.
I always thought that integrating Sub Woofers to a Stereo would be a difficult task and considered the possibility of REL Sub Woofers. However George, during our conversation showed how easily that could be achieved.

I have narrowed down my choice to either a Horn Speaker using Full Range Drivers like Fostex or Ariel Speakers designed by Lynn Olson which seem to be well suited.

Which horns have you heard? Many like Lowther have an palapble presense that is unique. TL's like the Aerial on the other hand are a bit more "traditional". Both have merits.

If you have horns for your front speakes then getting a center and rear to integrate to the horns (subwoofers are a little less difficult) can be an issue.

You could go for a single driver TL like Bob Brines does here
Brines Acoustics
or the smaller FX120 based TL here
Fostex FX120 DIY ML-TQWT (Transmission Line) Speaker Project

As far as 2 way TLs go consider these.
Tri-Trix
TriTrix MTM TL Speaker Components And Cabinet Kit Pair 300-702

For design ideas the Quaterwave gallery is a great place
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design Gallery

Or the parts express projects page
 
George,

Thank You !

The Room dimension is about 16' x 22'.

Our conversation helped me more than you can imagine. Thanks once again.

Jayant
 
Navin,

The only Horn speakers I have heard are Retham.

My interest in Ariel is because the smaller Mark 2 has been used as a center speaker as well as surround speakers.

Horn Speakers being quite efficient are a great match for low powered Vacuum Tube Amps. Once one hears music with Vacuum Tube Amps there is no going back !

Thanks for the links. I will check them out.

Jayant
 
Hi Jaybe
I had the Ariel kit for a long time and I never had the time to work on it. As a result I had given it to someone who took the plans and made a cabinet. From that day it has been sitting in storage, I have not had time to play with it. Anyway, to make a long story short, the Ariel speakers in the floor stander version are available with me should you want to buy it, I am willing to let it go just to recover some costs. You may find that it works fine as is and decide to keep it. If you are in this hobby for the journey of making the speakers and not just the end result, then by all means feel free to ignore my post, its well worth it to explore it on your own, after all the journey can be more fun than the goal.

good luck
Sridhar
 
Sridhar,

How rue ! Always believed that the means are more important than the end and to restate under the circumstances " more fun ". Having said that, I do intend to build a 5.1 system. This may get me started quicker. Pl. PM me your contact.

Jayant
 
Hi,

I've built the TLB's by Dave Dlugos. They use the same drivers, Vifa P13. Superb midrange &, dynamics. The design of the TLB is simplistic, a cap for the Tweeter. The drawback was volume levels and the kind of music to be used - Rock is out of the question without a SUB or a woofer unit.

The Ariel's use the same drivers in a TL config . Being a M-T-M TL with a higher order crossover it would sound GREAT.

Horns are efficient but large. Advantage is smaller or tube-based amps.
 
Hi Sunilj,

Do you still have these Speakers ?

While my choice of Music is definitely not Metal and Heavy Metal, the Room size is about 350 SFT. So the moderate volumes are a poser for me. Also our sons who are away at present listen to music which I always don't understand !
And this is a family music system.

I did look at Back Loaded Horn Designs but the estimated weight of in excess of 50 kgs. for each speaker put me off. My interest in Ariel is because of its relatively smaller size and the possibility of using MK2 as center channel and surrounds.

However I have not made up my mind and continue to explore.

Jayant
 
you should not be put off by weight of speakers, unless you have to move them on a daily basis. Heavier speakers MAY actually be better for SQ.
 
Hi Jayant,

Unfortunately I modded the TL's to a 2-way using an AR XO. They sound good, even for 'Rock' music. I'm modding them again and will go for something else. The 'Itch' is back.

The 'moderate volume' caveat is only if you're using a simple crossover. With a second or higher order they should be able to sound nice and I believe the Ariel sounds fantastic.

In the meanwhile this was conceived. Everything is ready, need to put it together.

Horns are not too bad, damn fantastic efficiency and ideal for low power amps. I'm itching to do a tapped horn if I can find the right 6" drivers, otherwise they get Too big Too quickly.

You're welcome to drop by and see what the P13's sound like.

Regards.
 
Once one hears music with Vacuum Tube Amps there is no going back !

Having said that, I do intend to build a 5.1 system.

Are you considering a 5.1 system using tubes? That's gonna mean a heck of a lot of iron and tubes. I would suggest looking at the 6SN7/6550 combo. This will give you a simple circuit (with 5 channels you will need to keep each channel simple) as well as about 40W rms per channel (over on diyaudio SY has a posted 6SN7-EL34/6550/KT88 schematic that is quite simple).
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/157523-recommend-me-kt88-6550-7n7-6sn7-schematic.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/195391-good-sounding-el34-pp-sch-please-5.html
http://www.larsen-b.com/Article/255.html

I would suggest a FAST system (see link). Maybe if you need a bit more HF verve for movies you could add a switchable tweeter (a rear facing peizo could also work) above 10k or so.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/144099-thread-tysen-variations-fast.html

Also our sons who are away at present listen to music which I always don't understand ! And this is a family music system.

Your sons are going to subject nice tubes and speakers to House/Trance etc..?:sad:
 
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Navin,

Many thanks for your offer ! Will definitely take you up on that. Will send you a PM.

Jayant
 
All the best Jayant, assuming this is the same Jayant who called me up for a listen for Viren's gear...?

Regards
 
Navin,

The Tube Amp is only for Stereo Music. For Movies 5.1 will be used with AVR.

My sons are musically talented. ( More than what I can say for Myself !). Both play Keyboard and one of them, while he was here, even composed music on Roland which he pestered me to buy for him. They seem to like my kind of Music - mostly from 60's & 70's but also that what is not familiar to me.

Thanks for posting the Links.

Jayant
 
The Tube Amp is only for Stereo Music. For Movies 5.1 will be used with AVR.

OK now how will you switch the amps between the stereo tube amp and the AVR. Given that your thread was in DIY I assumed you would be building your amps.
 
Cool! Will follow your diy speaker build. Will give you a holler on Jan to drop in and listen to the lyrita amp.

Regards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hi!

At last after much deliberation, I have decided to go with The Metronome ML-TQQT ( Mass Loaded Tapered Quadratic Quarter Tube ) design for the Stereo Speakers.

The departure from the established design will be an addition of Twitter for High Frequency to a Full Range Driver. The 8" Full Ranger Drivers and tweeters are on their way.

Will keep you posted with the progress.

Jayant

metronome-details.gif
 
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