So the recent Nakamichi CR1 A that I bought has issues...After playing 5 tapes, the right spindle has stopped working. So I went to a couple of reccomended people (repair persons) in Bangalore. While one person gave me a long story on how we should move to digital and absolutely didnt mention anything remotely about the repair, the other person flatly refused to work on it. How do I sort this issue out and how to I not get stuck sitting with a system that I paid 8k for in non working condition. Please help!
The lack of spare parts and repair personnel for tape decks
- Thread starter Sandesh
- Start date
prosenjit
New Member
try non metros if possible..no joke..there are still tape deck and crt being repaired..
and i like it.
i hate the concept junk it..repairing is good
and i like it.
i hate the concept junk it..repairing is good
ravidharap
Active Member
Post a pic of spare you need, may be we fellow members can give you more inputs.
Unfortunately I can't be sure of it unless someone actually examines it
greenhorn
Well-Known Member
my pinch roller rubber wheel gave up the ghost last week. It had hardened and cracked, and any attempts at restoring it made it worse. I was almost prepared to spend 12 + 5 euros to order the wheel from ebay germany. Decided to go to the local electronics shop. the guy gave me 3 rollers from the assortment he had. he wasn't too sure. One of them eventually fit, but there was a slight wobble. the other two had 1.8mm holes - mine was a 2.0. with a drill i could have made it larger, but didnt want to bother.
Went to ritchie, and was directed to go to kailash electronics, a small hole in the wall shop. The aged gentleman took one look at the roller, opened a draw full of rollers in different sizes, all neatly arranged, and took out and gave me precisely one. he didnt even bother comparing it to what I had given him. He was sure. And sure enough, it was a direct fit
The wheel cost just 10 Rs!
Went to ritchie, and was directed to go to kailash electronics, a small hole in the wall shop. The aged gentleman took one look at the roller, opened a draw full of rollers in different sizes, all neatly arranged, and took out and gave me precisely one. he didnt even bother comparing it to what I had given him. He was sure. And sure enough, it was a direct fit
The wheel cost just 10 Rs!
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Can you get me one of these rollers?my pinch roller rubber wheel gave up the ghost last week. It had hardened and cracked, and any attempts at restoring it made it worse. I was almost prepared to spend 12 + 5 euros to order the wheel from ebay germany. Decided to go to the local electronics shop. the guy gave me 3 rollers from the assortment he had. he wasn't too sure. One of them eventually fit, but there was a slight wobble. the other two had 1.8mm holes - mine was a 2.0. with a drill i could have made it larger, but didnt want to bother.
Went to ritchie, and was directed to go to kailash electronics, a small hole in the wall shop. The aged gentleman took one look at the roller, opened a draw full of rollers in different sizes, all neatly arranged, and took out and gave me precisely one. he didnt even bother comparing it to what I had given him. He was sure. And sure enough, it was a direct fit
The wheel cost just 10 Rs!
View attachment 10484
View attachment 10485
greenhorn
Well-Known Member
I would need the original. even with mine, getting a match was hard
plus am sure if you roamed about SP road, you should find a shop eventually
plus am sure if you roamed about SP road, you should find a shop eventually
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sandeepmohan
Well-Known Member
I would take the second persons response on a positive note. At least he was someone who admitted that he won't work on it. Due to lack of knowledge I suppose. There are blokes who say they will and then make a complete mess of things.
reubensm
Well-Known Member
my pinch roller rubber wheel gave up the ghost last week. It had hardened and cracked, and any attempts at restoring it made it worse. I was almost prepared to spend 12 + 5 euros to order the wheel from ebay germany. Decided to go to the local electronics shop. the guy gave me 3 rollers from the assortment he had. he wasn't too sure. One of them eventually fit, but there was a slight wobble. the other two had 1.8mm holes - mine was a 2.0. with a drill i could have made it larger, but didnt want to bother.
Went to ritchie, and was directed to go to kailash electronics, a small hole in the wall shop. The aged gentleman took one look at the roller, opened a draw full of rollers in different sizes, all neatly arranged, and took out and gave me precisely one. he didnt even bother comparing it to what I had given him. He was sure. And sure enough, it was a direct fit
The wheel cost just 10 Rs!
View attachment 10484
View attachment 10485
How is the performance after replacing the original roller with the ritchie street one? From my experience, the quality of Delhi-made pinch rollers was quite low. These become quite erratic after the first clean, tend to slip. I have heard of local mechanics increasing the pinch roller pressure to compensate thus upsetting the baseline calibration of the deck and so on. An increase in pinch roller pressure drops the speed which inturn requires recalibration of the playback motor speed control. Kindly comment on your experience so far.
greenhorn
Well-Known Member
I had picked up the deck locally for 800, with a couple of things not working and I think the original roller was non original - I recall seeing different rollers in some of the shots I had seen online for this deck. Either way within a few days, the deck started showing increased wow and flutter. the roller was hard - I tried soaking it in IPA, sanding it, nothing worked - in fact after sanding, the roller stopped gripping altogether.
I didnt have much of a time to listen with the original roller, and I suspect it was of a local make in the first place. This one plays decently, grips well enough, but there is a bit of wow with some tapes.
One of the things I wanted to check out was your argument for full logic decks. Now I agree. this one has a much simpler mechanism, and the piano key transports are beginning to look like clock innards now after this one
Even the repairs are much simpler. This one has a busted ff/ rewind and a dead VU meter display. both were traced to low output on a voltage regulator which runs both of them.
Swapped it for a discrete LM 317 based regulator - didnt want to bother finding an exact replacement, and ended up blowing the fuse. Turns out there was a short in the motor driver circuit. - that has been disconnected, and the VU meter runs fine. Now planning to bypass the motor driver circuit with a dedicated motor driver IC ( an LB1641) directly off signals from the control chip - that's this weekend's plan.
Reuben, since you've done a fair amount of restoration, wanted your philosphy on restoring these decks - if i should fix it back to stock, or a resto-mod is fine? I'm just daunted by the prospect of having to source obsolete semiconductors from abroad for $$ when you can design a workaround for much cheaper and better functionality.
I didnt have much of a time to listen with the original roller, and I suspect it was of a local make in the first place. This one plays decently, grips well enough, but there is a bit of wow with some tapes.
One of the things I wanted to check out was your argument for full logic decks. Now I agree. this one has a much simpler mechanism, and the piano key transports are beginning to look like clock innards now after this one
Even the repairs are much simpler. This one has a busted ff/ rewind and a dead VU meter display. both were traced to low output on a voltage regulator which runs both of them.
Swapped it for a discrete LM 317 based regulator - didnt want to bother finding an exact replacement, and ended up blowing the fuse. Turns out there was a short in the motor driver circuit. - that has been disconnected, and the VU meter runs fine. Now planning to bypass the motor driver circuit with a dedicated motor driver IC ( an LB1641) directly off signals from the control chip - that's this weekend's plan.
Reuben, since you've done a fair amount of restoration, wanted your philosphy on restoring these decks - if i should fix it back to stock, or a resto-mod is fine? I'm just daunted by the prospect of having to source obsolete semiconductors from abroad for $$ when you can design a workaround for much cheaper and better functionality.
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reubensm
Well-Known Member
Great point brought up: Stock Restoration vs Mod Restoration
Actually I believe this would depend on:
1) The value of the equipment (even if it is sentimental)
2) The worth, after all the back breaking work, one should have a great piece of gear to listen to, not an ordinary piece
3) The degree of difficulty of the restoration, some like me get a kick out of restoration with more challenging scenarios
4) Whether you'd love to get your gear back to its original condition and experience how it would sound when new, or are you ok with just the functionality
5) Your budget - as you rightly pointed out, sourcing spares from abroad is an expensive deal
6) Electrical/Electronic restoration vs Mechanical restoration. Some get a kick out of restoring the electronics, some the mechanical side.
7) Your knowledge levels (of electronics) and access to information (and also the ability to interpet information received)
8) Time, patience, love and regard for audio/hi-fi electronics
In addition to the above, if you want to hot-rod your equipment, a mod-restoration approach is always the best. The end result is that you'd be happy with the way is sounds and what more, this would definitely cost less. However please ensure that you document all the changes made for future reference (would make sense to re-draw parts of the service manual to incorporate changes). Personally I prefer to restore to original condition using original replacement parts.
Actually I believe this would depend on:
1) The value of the equipment (even if it is sentimental)
2) The worth, after all the back breaking work, one should have a great piece of gear to listen to, not an ordinary piece
3) The degree of difficulty of the restoration, some like me get a kick out of restoration with more challenging scenarios
4) Whether you'd love to get your gear back to its original condition and experience how it would sound when new, or are you ok with just the functionality
5) Your budget - as you rightly pointed out, sourcing spares from abroad is an expensive deal
6) Electrical/Electronic restoration vs Mechanical restoration. Some get a kick out of restoring the electronics, some the mechanical side.
7) Your knowledge levels (of electronics) and access to information (and also the ability to interpet information received)
8) Time, patience, love and regard for audio/hi-fi electronics
In addition to the above, if you want to hot-rod your equipment, a mod-restoration approach is always the best. The end result is that you'd be happy with the way is sounds and what more, this would definitely cost less. However please ensure that you document all the changes made for future reference (would make sense to re-draw parts of the service manual to incorporate changes). Personally I prefer to restore to original condition using original replacement parts.
I had picked up the deck locally for 800, with a couple of things not working and I think the original roller was non original - I recall seeing different rollers in some of the shots I had seen online for this deck. Either way within a few days, the deck started showing increased wow and flutter. the roller was hard - I tried soaking it in IPA, sanding it, nothing worked - in fact after sanding, the roller stopped gripping altogether.
I didnt have much of a time to listen with the original roller, and I suspect it was of a local make in the first place. This one plays decently, grips well enough, but there is a bit of wow with some tapes.
One of the things I wanted to check out was your argument for full logic decks. Now I agree. this one has a much simpler mechanism, and the piano key transports are beginning to look like clock innards now after this one
Even the repairs are much simpler. This one has a busted ff/ rewind and a dead VU meter display. both were traced to low output on a voltage regulator which runs both of them.
Swapped it for a discrete LM 317 based regulator - didnt want to bother finding an exact replacement, and ended up blowing the fuse. Turns out there was a short in the motor driver circuit. - that has been disconnected, and the VU meter runs fine. Now planning to bypass the motor driver circuit with a dedicated motor driver IC ( an LB1641) directly off signals from the control chip - that's this weekend's plan.
Reuben, since you've done a fair amount of restoration, wanted your philosphy on restoring these decks - if i should fix it back to stock, or a resto-mod is fine? I'm just daunted by the prospect of having to source obsolete semiconductors from abroad for $$ when you can design a workaround for much cheaper and better functionality.
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greenhorn
Well-Known Member
my tape deck is turning out to be a full time project. today the right channel started dropping out, and pressing at some point in the pcb cured it. Thought it was a cold solder, and re did all the joints around that area, still no joy. Then noticed that pressing a relay that switches the signal to the dolby IC for play/record makes the change.
a bit of pressing and soldering the leads of the switch seems to have made it work for now, but let anyone who is buying an old tape deck with the belief that once serviced, it's a fix it, shut it, forget it affair is mistaken!
a bit of pressing and soldering the leads of the switch seems to have made it work for now, but let anyone who is buying an old tape deck with the belief that once serviced, it's a fix it, shut it, forget it affair is mistaken!
There are a few Nakamichi specific forums. I think one is called NakTalk. You could post your questions and find out the possible causes. You can also try to get the service manual and open up the deck to trouble shoot. The forum route may yield good suggestions to follow up. Once you find the spare you need, you can hunt around in SP road or order online. Good luck.
sarith
Active Member
I was thinking of buying a pioneer double cassette tape deck which I saw at a local dealer (old stock I guess). But after reading few posts about lack of spare parts kind of freaked me out. I think I have two options. One is a guy who claims to have built cassette recording decks for professionals. The second option is to buy Ahuja cassette recorders like 4040-SM or CTR-100. I have few audio cassette collection (around 100). But my main purpose is to record my vinyl and cd collection to tape. I managed to collect some blank cassettes of sony, tdk and maxell (both 60 and 90). I have few tape heads from alps (super metal and glass metal), sendust, few other heads from MX, AX(japan), sony(japan), JVC(japan), ss, ms etc. These heads could be useful on normal tape mechanism other than fully automatic. I don't know about the quality of Ahuja tape recorders (confused). Any thoughts friends?
greenhorn
Well-Known Member
don't buy anything custom made. Get a tape deck, preferably one that sold a lot. That way at least you'll have acess to spares and service manuals to keep it in shape.
If you just want to convert them to cd without hassles, there are USB tape decks and walkmans available for cheap, but their quality won't be as great.
PS: if you are interested in letting go of the tape heads, I'm interested
If you just want to convert them to cd without hassles, there are USB tape decks and walkmans available for cheap, but their quality won't be as great.
PS: if you are interested in letting go of the tape heads, I'm interested
reubensm
Well-Known Member
Ahuja - avoid, they are low end and probably intended for public address use. Back in the late 70s, early 80s, Delhi used to be famous for radio spares and I remember these had the Delhi based Chawla Mechanisms which were absolute junk.
Custom made - not worth the trouble. Good custom decks were usually fabricated using mechanicals salvaged from original cassette decks manufactured for the mass market by the usual suspects. Avoid these, the assumption is usually that if something goes wrong, its easy to fix. The reality approach is usually, if something goes wrong, just throw it away because its home-made anyways
Yes, if you own vintage electronics, its a huge challenge in places like India, to find people who can repair/service them. Even in mature vintage electronics markets like the United States, the challenge is with the cost of repairs. It is extremely expensive to service or repair vintage equipment out there and service technicians usually charge by the hour.
Back to your point, like you, a lot of us set out to buy a cassette deck at some point in the very recent past. You can still get a good deck out there but here are some points I kept in mind while searching:
1) No quickr, olx or ebay.in
2) No word of mouth, I would have to check it myself
3) Trust only good friends, whom you know, spread your requirement through word of mouth
4) Avoid dealers of used electronics (however honest they may appear to be)
5) Even if the deck has the slightest of defects/issues, back out, dont buy
6) Shortlist a few specific models and stick by them, don't window-shop
7) Be suspicious of low prices, the lower the price, the poorer the condition
8) No ebay.com, equipment with motors generally run poorly on 220v to 110v converters
9) You can't be too price consicious. You must be ready to spend. If you want a pristine deck purchased new (back in the day) by the single owner, he's going to charge you more because he paid more for it
10) Read up as much as possible on cassette decks in general and on the models you've shortlisted. Even single model has its unique characteristics, functionality and more importantly, the usual issues that can arise
11) listen, listen, listen, record, record, record (and playback of course). Many people make the mistake of not audiotioning. Also if you have an existing tape collection, you may want to play one of your favourite tapes on the deck so that you can make a comparison to what you've heard in the past. Another very important fact is that these days, audiophiles just say - who wants to record cassette tapes, I just want to play some of my old tapes - and they don't check the recording functionality. If your deck records perfectly (which is very critical for a cassette deck like the taking off and landing of an aircraft) then in all likely hood, it will play properly. Recording helps ascertain the condition of the R/P head (for 2-headers), condition of the erase head, bias calibration and most importantly, speed accuracy of the cassette deck. A cassette deck which is running slow or fast or has wow and flutter, may get away during play back but would be badly exposed during recording.
12) If not in good cosmetic condition, back out. A poor looking deck is usually a poorly handled and maintained deck.
Using this, I was able to get my Nakamichi DR3 in mint condition, from a single owner who purchased it new, and I am enjoying every moment of owning it. My NAK is the star of my rack indeed. If I have to sell off all my equipment, the NAK would be what I would sell at the very end and that too with a lot of difficulty.
Don't part with your NAK. Be patient, there are loads of NAK users who are very active on various internet hi-fi forums. Spare parts are also available but have to be sourced from abroad. Remember, if you have a NAK deck, its your prized possession by default because if you let it go, you are not likely to ever get one again. Also, if OEM spares are used, NAKs can be easily restored to their former glory. Their build quality is superb and with the finest components.
Keep consulting. From what you say about the spindle not turning (assume you are referring to the capstan which engages the pinch roller), I would suspect a broken belt. Imagine selling off your deck because it has a broken belt...
Just my 2 cents.
Custom made - not worth the trouble. Good custom decks were usually fabricated using mechanicals salvaged from original cassette decks manufactured for the mass market by the usual suspects. Avoid these, the assumption is usually that if something goes wrong, its easy to fix. The reality approach is usually, if something goes wrong, just throw it away because its home-made anyways
Yes, if you own vintage electronics, its a huge challenge in places like India, to find people who can repair/service them. Even in mature vintage electronics markets like the United States, the challenge is with the cost of repairs. It is extremely expensive to service or repair vintage equipment out there and service technicians usually charge by the hour.
Back to your point, like you, a lot of us set out to buy a cassette deck at some point in the very recent past. You can still get a good deck out there but here are some points I kept in mind while searching:
1) No quickr, olx or ebay.in
2) No word of mouth, I would have to check it myself
3) Trust only good friends, whom you know, spread your requirement through word of mouth
4) Avoid dealers of used electronics (however honest they may appear to be)
5) Even if the deck has the slightest of defects/issues, back out, dont buy
6) Shortlist a few specific models and stick by them, don't window-shop
7) Be suspicious of low prices, the lower the price, the poorer the condition
8) No ebay.com, equipment with motors generally run poorly on 220v to 110v converters
9) You can't be too price consicious. You must be ready to spend. If you want a pristine deck purchased new (back in the day) by the single owner, he's going to charge you more because he paid more for it
10) Read up as much as possible on cassette decks in general and on the models you've shortlisted. Even single model has its unique characteristics, functionality and more importantly, the usual issues that can arise
11) listen, listen, listen, record, record, record (and playback of course). Many people make the mistake of not audiotioning. Also if you have an existing tape collection, you may want to play one of your favourite tapes on the deck so that you can make a comparison to what you've heard in the past. Another very important fact is that these days, audiophiles just say - who wants to record cassette tapes, I just want to play some of my old tapes - and they don't check the recording functionality. If your deck records perfectly (which is very critical for a cassette deck like the taking off and landing of an aircraft) then in all likely hood, it will play properly. Recording helps ascertain the condition of the R/P head (for 2-headers), condition of the erase head, bias calibration and most importantly, speed accuracy of the cassette deck. A cassette deck which is running slow or fast or has wow and flutter, may get away during play back but would be badly exposed during recording.
12) If not in good cosmetic condition, back out. A poor looking deck is usually a poorly handled and maintained deck.
Using this, I was able to get my Nakamichi DR3 in mint condition, from a single owner who purchased it new, and I am enjoying every moment of owning it. My NAK is the star of my rack indeed. If I have to sell off all my equipment, the NAK would be what I would sell at the very end and that too with a lot of difficulty.
Don't part with your NAK. Be patient, there are loads of NAK users who are very active on various internet hi-fi forums. Spare parts are also available but have to be sourced from abroad. Remember, if you have a NAK deck, its your prized possession by default because if you let it go, you are not likely to ever get one again. Also, if OEM spares are used, NAKs can be easily restored to their former glory. Their build quality is superb and with the finest components.
Keep consulting. From what you say about the spindle not turning (assume you are referring to the capstan which engages the pinch roller), I would suspect a broken belt. Imagine selling off your deck because it has a broken belt...
Just my 2 cents.
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reubensm
Well-Known Member
reubensm
Well-Known Member
Please be patient and check carefully. You may have something as simple as a broken belt. If that's the case, NAK belt kits are available from abroad.
Reuben, I checked with one of the guys here. It is definitely not a broken belt. But there's a problem with the transporter apparently. Mr. Philip of Lizzner electronics, Bangalore was suggesting I change the head because he says it's worn out and the pinch roller has also become hard. In the beginning, I was not really ready to do that, but right now I am quite desperate to get my Nak up and working. I would really appriciate your suggestions and help in anyway.
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