The sound of Bass Guitar is laging in my TT setup, need help

[Tanoj]

Hello friends

i recently visited Yesdian's place to checkout his TT,

what we noticed that my TT Setup is missing the Sounds like Bass guitar etc

we played track like Dady cool from boney M etc

below is my setup

TT Philips 834
cartridge : Denon DL 160
Phonostage : Sahu's DIY phonostage
Amp : Akai um 33
Speakers : Acoustic portrait mini monitors

yesdian's setup is

TT Philips not sure which model
Cart : Shure m97xe ( i think this could be the cause )
phonostage and Amp : vintage Yamaha Amp , not sure which model
Speakers : kenwood speakers


regards

Tanoj

 

[Moviela]

There is nothing on your equipment list that would suggest a high pass "filter" that is clamping the low frequency notes.

I would first be suspicious of the cables from the turn table to the preamp. Easy enough to sub another pair. Next we need to look at the construction of the preamp. The circuit you are using is the work of the staff at National Semiconductor, when the late Bob Pease was the analog guru.

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lme49720.pdf

For the RIAA curve to be properly executed the components between the two amps need to installed properly. The resistors must be precision metal film 1% with 100 ppm temp coefficient. The capacitors must be the values specified with polypropylene dielectric. Other capacitors with the same value will not work. Note that there are no "standard value" parts with the correct Resistance and capacitance. You must use two resistors connected in series, and two capacitors in parallel to effect the curve necessary.

You might also need to change the input compensation capacitor (10pf on the drawing) in order for your cartridge to play nice with the preamp.

I learned a long time ago that you cannot rely on the value printed on the parts. You must measure them, especially true with capacitors. There are several different ways makers mark them. A cap marked 100 might be 10pf or 100pf. You won't know unless you have a capacitor tester to sort the ambiguity. In any operational amplifier circuit, inputs must be extra clean, especially the body of the capacitors. Make sure the board has been cleaned with isopropyl alcohol, along with the body of the caps and resistors. Don't touch them after cleaning. Use clean, lint free, cotton or paper to clean and remove the alcohol.

Were I standing there, I might connect an audio sweep generator and oscilloscope to determine where the bass is being attenuated in your system if a visual check was not fruitful.

Lastly, does the amp have a bass control, and is it working?

 

[sachu888]

Hi Moviela,

Tanoj is using DIY MC phonostage,based on Phonocube.I also suspect turntable interconnects.Tanoj changing cables on TT could solve this problem.You can use any low capacitance Video Component Cable(Approx 3ft length) for better results.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[yezdian]

tanoj bhaiyya my turntable is philips 242 and amplifier is yamaha ca610.

 

[omishra]

Tanoj,
There are 2 points -
1. Just verify that your cart set correctly. Correct VTF is must for good response.
2. IMO cable/loading capacitance matters mostly to MM. Now check your phono pre which you have done by DIY. Please make sure are caps are correct values at correct place.
At the amp, if other source at same place input (after bypassing phono stage) work correctly then look into above 2 points.

Regards,

 

[jls001]

To add to what other have said, also check your vertical tracking angle. While record is playing, bend down and see from side whether the tonearm is horizontally level with respect to the record surface. The tonearm tube should be horizontal. Neither cartridge end nor tonearm pivot end should be higher/lower. In some cartridges, proper VTA is

Bass response of a music system is very dependent on:
a) cartridge used
b) amplifier
c) speakers

Some cartridges have better bass response than others.

Similarly, you will agree that certain amplifiers will give you better bass response than others.

Ditto for speakers.

I agree with others that inter-connect and speaker cables will also have a lot of effect on the overall response, but these are the last tweaks you should try as it entails spending (after finding the right cables).

 

[reubensm]

Dont think changing cables would do you much good. Its definitely got to be an alignment problem. If the alignment is ok, try out the same LP on another turntable connected to the same rig (if possible) or atleast try out a new cart-stylus combo. Just to make sure mine's ok, I played my Boney M LP, featuring the same track (Daddy Cool) and the bass guitar was more than heard. I use a Shure M44-7.

 

[abhijitwadekar]

hi tanuj,
Would suggest you to check the cart alignment and VTA. Secondly a simple thumb rule is if you raise the tonearm height then you get a better treble and if you lower the tonearm it gives a better bass response. A parallel tonearm balances both the bass and treble.
You can try that out
Regards
Abhijit

 

[Tanoj]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions

after i did few tweak there i considerable improvement in SQ

1. I replaced the Headshell wires, the old one were the one which originally came with TT, the leads were turned black
2. I raised the platter height by keeping 2 old lps below the slip mat, that clearly looks that the tonearm is now parallel ( while playing )
This weekend , will get the Yesdians TT, Phonostage and amp to my place and do A B

To be honest I love the sound of DENON, its pretty smooth and the high frequencies are awesome and detailed the vocals are little thinner like you listen a CD
I believe the MC cart has its own sound signature

Thank you all once again for taking your valuable time out , and suggesting me to fix this issue
Will keep posting after we done with AB with yesdians setup

Cheers
Tanoj

 

[anm]

see if you can carry your TT to some other guy's setup. I took it to Virenji's house to ensure everything was in order. Also got a nice hot coffee as a bonus!

 

[Tanoj]

Thank you anm, iam planing to do the same this weekend

Regards

Tanoj

 

[omishra]

Tanoj, any news or findings?

hi tanuj,
Would suggest you to check the cart alignment and VTA. Secondly a simple thumb rule is if you raise the tonearm height then you get a better treble and if you lower the tonearm it gives a better bass response. A parallel tonearm balances both the bass and treble.
You can try that out
Regards
Abhijit

BTW above statement is 101% true and I personally verified it on this weekend. Thanks Abhijit for bringing it front.

 

[omishra]

Just thought of telling my method of checking above settings into my SL 1200MKII.
Before and after aligning two null points and proper overhang. I do following test to check setting correct. Please forgive for bad picture quality and parallax in taking photos. They may not appear exact centered but they are actually.

At this condition the sound quality is the best from any kind of undamaged record. IGD is not existent though I can feel loss of HF.

NOTE: spirit level weighs 0.2 grams and tonearm in second picture is resting over record while it is stand still.

 

[Tanoj]

Wow, the spirit level test , i believe is the most accurate method of checking the tonearm level

Regards

 

[anm]

hey Tanoj - so were you able to do it over the weekend? Any insights?