thoroughly confused :hdav card vs radeon 5xxx series?

[corElement]

I dont understand, in some websites they say having a radeon 5xxx series card which does bit streaming negates the need for an hdav card from asus..

however what I dont understand is the card says it does true hd and all that but then why would a 5xxx series nullify it's use. do they have onboard sound processors or something?

blu ray -> gpu -> apu -> hdmi out?

blu ray - apu - hdmi out?

....................

on specs the asus d2x is superior to hdav 1.3 deluxe.. but if its superior without having dolby true hd dts ma etc then how is the hdav card a better buy over the d2x which uses co axial digital out while hdav uses hdmi.


Is the sound from a d2x routed by hd5xxx card superior to hdav card hdmi output even though its not hdmi? How is that possible? hdmi's supposed to give highest snr/clarity etc yet the d2x is better than hdav for audio... arghh im so confused.!

 

[kapvin]

a radeon card offers the ability to either bitstream or send out pcm. through hdmi

bitstream means that the card simply sends out the audio stream untampered, there is no processing at all done (or required).

for PCM the hd audio (or sd audio) track has to be converted to 5.1 or 7.1 lpcm. this is typically done by the player software and afaik no processing is done by the card.

Blu-ray requires something called Protected audio path to send hd audio bitstream or even convert to pCm at the hd sampling rates/ resolution. PAP confirms to the software chain that the signal can pass unsullied (or untapped). in the absence of a PAP only the core audio track is passed/ the hd audio track is downsampled.

earlier implementation of HDMI video cards only had a protected video path, so the HDAV was a hybrid solution to ensure that a PAP was also enforced. In addition, the HDAV deluxe did add further value by having a good quality DA convertor to give 7.1 analog output.

IMHO a HDAV 1.3/slim is an irrelavent product now when you have a choice of the ati 5 series. The HDAV 1.3 Delux (with daugther card) is still relavent for those that have 7.1/5.1 analog in on their non HD receivers as it allows you to enjoy hd audio ons uch a receiver.

however, based on the research i've done, setting up distance / delays and bass management on the hdav 1.3 delux is still a complicated and not a complete process.

in terms of trade-off, i've prefered to stay with SD audio (Core or downsampled) and have the bass and delay management flexibility of the receiver.

BTW, if having a the HD audio light coming on on your reciever is not critical, or if you have an only hdmi capable but not truHD/hD master decoding Reciever (HDMI 1.2 - eg rx-v2700).. you could still use a nvidia g2xx/ati 5xxxx card to send full resolution pcm to the receiver. (EDIT:: If you use reclock to sync your video with the monitor refresh rate, then you pretty much need to conver to pcm anyway to get audio sync.)



hope this clarifies.

cheers

Kapil

 

[cmsajith]

So ATI 5xxx cards come with the PAP support and sends the bitstream so that the receiver can decode the DTS-HD / Dolby TrueHD format if it is capable of. Any idea how much this card costs or which is the low cost card with bit-streaming capability?

 

[kapvin]

So ATI 5xxx cards come with the PAP support and sends the bitstream so that the receiver can decode the DTS-HD / Dolby TrueHD format if it is capable of. Any idea how much this card costs or which is the low cost card with bit-streaming capability?

well Sajith, I was recently quoted 6300/- for a hd5670 512mb ddr5. imo, this is excellent card which allows for occasional gaming and also has the power to do decent video post processing if required. (i eventually bought the gt240)

below this is the 5570, and the 5450 which should be substantially cheaper..

here is one link...

Theitdepot - Power Color HD5450 1GB DDR3 Graphic Card (AX5450 1GBK3-SH)

be aware that hD audio via PC is still a bit of a challenge, mainly due to the cumbersome copy protection mechanisms that have to be enforced. some driver combinations work better than others (esp with ATI) so be prepared to experiment.

 

[cmsajith]

well Sajith, I was recently quoted 6300/- for a hd5670 512mb ddr5. imo, this is excellent card which allows for occasional gaming and also has the power to do decent video post processing if required. (i eventually bought the gt240)

below this is the 5570, and the 5450 which should be substantially cheaper..

here is one link...

Theitdepot - Power Color HD5450 1GB DDR3 Graphic Card (AX5450 1GBK3-SH)

be aware that hD audio via PC is still a bit of a challenge, mainly due to the cumbersome copy protection mechanisms that have to be enforced. some driver combinations work better than others (esp with ATI) so be prepared to experiment.

hmmm... I am not at all in a hurry for upgrading my HTPC for HD audio as i am having WD Live and the HTPC which does the HD video part very well. The only thing which i am missing out in WDLive is DTS-HD. If they are not releasing a firmware upgrade for bitstreaming DTS_HD, i will be moving back to HTPC.

 

[sam9s]

I am using HD5850 and am drawing full HD audio of it over HDMI (through reciever). Though I am not using it for movie viewing, still relying on POHD for that, but gaming is absolute pleasure over HD 5.1 audio.

 

[spirovious]

A si9mple sol is to get MB with HDMI out & Hardware acceration sothat you can get 7.1lossless out from PC to your HD AVR which decodes/DAC it to get analoge 5.1/7.1 out.
HDAV has only advantage of onbrd DAC.

Now a days most of AVR uses Burrbrown DAC which HDAV also has.So you can save on SC if you get MB with HDMI out & have HD-AVR.

 

[Imrahn]

A si9mple sol is to get MB with HDMI out & Hardware acceration sothat you can get 7.1lossless out from PC to your HD AVR which decodes/DAC it to get analoge 5.1/7.1 out.
HDAV has only advantage of onbrd DAC.

Now a days most of AVR uses Burrbrown DAC which HDAV also has.So you can save on SC if you get MB with HDMI out & have HD-AVR.

OR

like Sam said, an ATi card with HDMI out, right?

 

[spirovious]

OR

like Sam said, an ATi card with HDMI out, right?

Yes,but only if you are gamer,else MB can do HT viewing job.

 

[sam9s]

Yes,but only if you are gamer,else MB can do HT viewing job.

You can do Movie viewing as well, it provies proper HD Audio, its only me...... I only use it for gaming.

 

[corElement]

Yay, my sister received the xonar d2x I bought off ebay for 4k deliverred to her! now to only figure out how to get my dirty paws on it!

 

[spirovious]

my dirty paws on it!

What?Dirty? Do you still play with mud? hyeah:

 

[Imrahn]

What abt the 5850 u got? Once u get it, plz test audio via HDMI out and let us know.

 

[venkatcr]

Spiro, I have been doing a bit of Net research, and I believe that a better option is to get a bare bones motherboard (AMD 890GX seems too good), and add a graphics card for HTPC.

The new graphics card from ATI provide a number of advantages.

1. They actually process SD and upscale them to 1080P.
2. They can read Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio and bitstream the audio across to your AVR.
3. Support for H.264, VC-1, MPEG-2, and Adobe Flash
4. Integrated HDMI 1.3 output with Deep Color and xvYCC wide gamut support.
5. Support resolutions upto 1920x1200

The ATI GPU have gone far beyond what Intel can support on board. Even AMD's own on board graphics support is limited to a max of Radeon 4290 graphics. This is at least a generation behind with no HD Audio nor deep colour support.

ATI have recently released three GPUs specifically meant for HTPC. One is the Radeon 5450 that sells for a ridiculous 50 dollars. The issue with 5450 seems to be the lack of HD Audio bitstreaming or at least some bug in the implementation.

ATI's 5770 and 5750 on other hand seem to handle HD audio beautifully, though you may have to set off it's auto installation procedure.

Toms Hardware has done a detailed review of these cards here.

As I said a bare bones motherboard with one of the cards will really make a HTPC near perfect. In India, the 5750 costs around 8600 and the 5770 costs 9900. I am sure they are much cheaper in Singapore or Dubai. I am quite positive a well constructed PC with one of these cards will give all media players a run for their money.

Cheers

 

[spirovious]

Thanks Venkat,
I too read somewhere new (AMD 890GX).Still so many other options present with lot of confusion.
If you add a Graphiccard,new MB can combine onbrd graphics with GC as crossfire allowing even 4 monitors at a time(not needed for HTPC though)

 

[venkatcr]

Thanks Venkat,
I too read somewhere new (AMD 890GX).Still so many other options present with lot of confusion.
If you add a Graphiccard,new MB can combine onbrd graphics with GC as crossfire allowing even 4 monitors at a time(not needed for HTPC though)

Yes there are huge options out there. But, if you look closely, the options are between Intel's i3 and i5 platform using the 1156 socket and a AMD Athlon or Phenom processor using the AM3 socket. Intel's i7 using the 1136 socket is too expensive and is meant for high end gamers, servers, workstations, etc. Of course I will also see if I can get a MB with USB 3.0 capability to transfer those monstrous 15GB and 20GB movie files.

AMD's Crossfire technology has been developed to combine the capabilities of 2 or more GPUs providing high GPU throughput. Of course, for HTPC, this is not needed. But one advantage I see of using a high end graphics is their capability to deliver dual stream HDMI images with pip that is part of Blu-Ray specifications.

I see the following configuration as a ideal combination:

1. 890GX MB from Gigabyte or Asus
2. Athlon II or Phenom CPU
3. AMD 5750 or 5770 based graphics card
4. 2GB of DDR3 RAM.
5. A DVD writer now, replaced with a Blu-Ray drive when it's prices become reasonable.

A configuration like this could last you a few years providing superb performance for DVDs, Blu-Ray, and ripped media file.

HTPC, here I come!!!!!!

Cheers

 

[spirovious]

I saw on ebay,price of 5series is around $80 to 90.Where can be it had for less?
Secondly Athlon or Phenom is another arguement.
I feel athlon is good option,not sure.

GC 5450
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2931/4
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1202/9/

5670 & above series seems to be better option.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3601/the-final-word-on-the-best-radeon-htpc-card

 

[corElement]

Phenom II 965be is the highest quad core from amd, athlons are not close.
5670 isnt worth the cost to a 5770. But eitherways I bought a 5850, arriving today.
REtails around 16-17, got for 13. 50% more fps than 5770.

 

[spirovious]

The problem with higher GC is their heatsink.They are large & cover slot next to them.
If next only slot is PCI-E,then how to install D2X?
So again you need full ATX brd which will cost more.

If you plan to buy a GC then higher CPU may not be needed.Lower CPU are around 45w & consume less power.

 

[cmsajith]

For an HTPC, the first thing we need to check is its overall power consumption, then the heat and the best ways to reduce it as it will increase the noise from the cooling fans. Since it will be running through out, the power consumption will be high even if it is not fully loaded.

Here the importance of an onboard solution comes in. Better option would be to wait till a good onboard solution comes or get normal dual core processors w/ a card which can play the HD. If it is a dedicated HTPC, why are we after high end graphic cards and processors (you dont require even a 50% processing power to run any of the applications which we use normally, unless somebody is not into any graphic rendering applications or hard core gaming). Everybody is after the best, thinking that it will be future proof, which is actually not possible if you follow the manufacturers. My suggestion would be to buy wisely.

just my 2cents.