Using high core electrical cables for audio

[pushkarajd]

Hi,

Wanted experts advice if I can use the high core (maybe 12-10 AWG) electrical cables for my speakers. Any pros and cons that need to be considered? I am planning to use Polycom if all the experts here agree to this. Or any other brand that you may suggest.

Thanks.

 

[Ravindra Desai]

Hello PushkarajD,

I have been using Finolex 1sq.mm speaker cable for home theaters and 2sq.mm speaker cable for cinema theaters for years now.
I recommend it with confidence. http://estore.finolex.com/index.php/wires-cables/speaker-cables.html
Your local dealer will surely offer better price.

Before Finolex launched speaker cable I was regularly using their 1100V/ 1sq.mm and 1100V 2sq.mm cables typically used for electrical wiring.
I used two different colours.

The advantage with speaker cables is that the two cores run together and one is marked red for speaker polarity.

I have not used Polycom so I can't comment there.

Regards,

Ravindra.

 

[Dr.Lakshay]

Even i am using RR Kabel 2mmsq cable, 2 different color wires intertwined with banana plugs and they work just fine. Electrical wires are no nonsense cables and are pure copper Atleast 99%. They don't come with the hyped price of audio specific cables.

 

[keith_correa]

Hi,

Wanted experts advice if I can use the high core (maybe 12-10 AWG) electrical cables for my speakers. Any pros and cons that need to be considered? I am planning to use Polycom if all the experts here agree to this. Or any other brand that you may suggest.

Thanks.

Go ahead! No issues at all with using electrical cables. Is "Polycom" a typo - do you mean Polycab?

 

[Kannan]

I suggest you get the Finolex speaker cables. These are a little more flexible, have color codes for easy identification of +ve and ground and have more strands for the same gauge which is overall better than the normal Finolex electrical wire. These are also available in different awg sizes.

As important as speaker cables are, so is the connectivity. Use good quality banana plugs for solid connection.

I have made a slow upgrade from basic RCA cables to MX, and now use Blue Jeans.
Regarding speaker cables, I moved from Finolex to ntech to Klotz and now use Belden. The Belden is tinned copper which is agood solution for guys like me living in coastal areas.

 

[sunder]

I suggest you get the Finolex speaker cables. These are a little more flexible, have color codes for easy identification of +ve and ground and have more strands for the same gauge which is overall better than the normal Finolex electrical wire. These are also available in different awg sizes.

As important as speaker cables are, so is the connectivity. Use good quality banana plugs for solid connection.

I have made a slow upgrade from basic RCA cables to MX, and now use Blue Jeans.
Regarding speaker cables, I moved from Finolex to ntech to Klotz and now use Belden. The Belden is tinned copper which is agood solution for guys like me living in coastal areas.

Kannan, where do you buy Belden speaker cables? Is it available in meter from bulk reels? Is silver coated available? Thanks.

 

[Kannan]

Kannan, where do you buy Belden speaker cables? Is it available in meter from bulk reels? Is silver coated available? Thanks.

It can be purchased in meter length.

Call up Amirinder if you know him or go through his website theaudiocrafts.com

 

[sunder]

It can be purchased in meter length.

Call up Amirinder if you know him or go through his website theaudiocrafts.com

Thank you. Will contact.

 

[pushkarajd]

Go ahead! No issues at all with using electrical cables. Is "Polycom" a typo - do you mean Polycab?

Oh yes! Sorry I did mean by Polycab....sorry working in IT is taking a toll on me now!

And thanks, yes, the reason I thought to use electrical cables are they are copper wires. Do you think they will make an impact from 2 perspectives:

1. Better or equivalent sound to the highly expensive audio cables sold in mkt
2. Better than the ones that I have (I currently have local cables purchased from a local electrical store).

Thanks.

Regards,

Pushkaraj

 

[pushkarajd]

Hello PushkarajD,

I have been using Finolex 1sq.mm speaker cable for home theaters and 2sq.mm speaker cable for cinema theaters for years now.
I recommend it with confidence. http://estore.finolex.com/index.php/wires-cables/speaker-cables.html
Your local dealer will surely offer better price.

Before Finolex launched speaker cable I was regularly using their 1100V/ 1sq.mm and 1100V 2sq.mm cables typically used for electrical wiring.
I used two different colours.

The advantage with speaker cables is that the two cores run together and one is marked red for speaker polarity.

I have not used Polycom so I can't comment there.

Regards,

Ravindra.

Thanks Ravi.

For the color coding, I think electrical cables are also available in 3-4 different colors, so distinguishing them should not be a problem. And ah, I was referring to Polycab not Polycom, sorry about that!

Do you think electrical cables (good brand like polycab with 12 AWG) be comparable to the expensive cables mfg only for speakers?

Thanks.


Regards,

Pushkaraj

 

[pushkarajd]

Even i am using RR Kabel 2mmsq cable, 2 different color wires intertwined with banana plugs and they work just fine. Electrical wires are no nonsense cables and are pure copper Atleast 99%. They don't come with the hyped price of audio specific cables.

Thanks. That's the precise reason I was looking at electrical cables. Do you also think that use of banana plugs is needed/recommended if I am planning to use electrical cables? Currently I am not using them and the cable that I currently have is an unbranded cable bought from a local electrical shop. Although it is meant for connecting speakers. This is the typical cable that comes in a transparent sheath one with copper and the other with a silver coating.

 

[Dr.Lakshay]

Thanks. That's the precise reason I was looking at electrical cables. Do you also think that use of banana plugs is needed/recommended if I am planning to use electrical cables? Currently I am not using them and the cable that I currently have is an unbranded cable bought from a local electrical shop. Although it is meant for connecting speakers. This is the typical cable that comes in a transparent sheath one with copper and the other with a silver coating.

If it's an unbranded one I'll recommend switching to a branded one which can garantee you that the wire is indeed made of copper. I use banana plug as it makes it look more neat, professional, easy to use and would prevent the oxidation of the bare wire.

 

[jls001]

Do you also think that use of banana plugs is needed/recommended if I am planning to use electrical cables?

Banana or spades are much easier to use than unterminated wire. Unterminated wire tends to oxidise due to exposure to air and moisture, even if the copper is OFC. Unterminated 12 AWG wire is pretty thick and will not easily insert into the hole of a regular 5-way binding post, so it needs to be tightly twisted, wrapped around the binding post and screwed down. More often than not, the screw loosens by itself. In short, it's simply not the most ideal way to have a secure connection although the purists do it.

If I were in your place I'd buy a good speaker cable from DAC, Belden, Mogami, or the likes instead of punting on some unknown electrical-grade cables.

 

[pushkarajd]

Banana or spades are much easier to use than unterminated wire. Unterminated wire tends to oxidise due to exposure to air and moisture, even if the copper is OFC. Unterminated 12 AWG wire is pretty thick and will not easily insert into the hole of a regular 5-way binding post, so it needs to be tightly twisted, wrapped around the binding post and screwed down. More often than not, the screw loosens by itself. In short, it's simply not the most ideal way to have a secure connection although the purists do it.

If I were in your place I'd buy a good speaker cable from DAC, Belden, Mogami, or the likes instead of punting on some unknown electrical-grade cables.

Thanks. I was looking at Polycab, which is a respected brand in the electrical world. Also, my intention to use electrical wires was because of quality of copper used in electrical wires is generally good and as I said above Polycab is a respected brand in the electrical industry, but I will definitely look at your suggestion for a branded speaker cable.

Thanks.

 

[pushkarajd]

If it's an unbranded one I'll recommend switching to a branded one which can garantee you that the wire is indeed made of copper. I use banana plug as it makes it look more neat, professional, easy to use and would prevent the oxidation of the bare wire.

Thanks. I am looking at Polycab which has a good reputation in the electrical industry. WRT, look, I already have my AVR inside a cabinet and my entire cabling is concealed, hence for looks, I don't think it would matter.

Yes, about oxidation, I agree with you.

 

[Ravindra Desai]

Do you think electrical cables (good brand like polycab with 12 AWG) be comparable to the expensive cables mfg only for speakers?
Pushkaraj

Though there is a hype around high cost/ grade loudspeaker cables, I am yet to come across a company that will put the electrical parameters of a cable on paper and tie it to superior audio quality. They do use better core and insulation material which get categorized into built quality not audio quality.

Let us assume that a cable manufacturer shows the difference on an oscilloscope. My question is: Do we see audio or hear it? Another question: How much extra are you willing to pay for audio that looks clean but sounds the same to naked ear?

For hecks sake, let us analyze the parameters of a cable that WILL affect sound quality:

1. Wire resistance is the only parameter that will matter in almost all cases. It will cause gain loss that can be compensated easily with volume/ gain setting.
2. Cable capacitance: For the length of wire that we typically use at home, or for that purpose in multipurpose halls, its nothing that will cause filter effect at low, mid or high frequencies.
3. Cable inductance: Usually causes unloading of amplifier at high frequencies. However, a good amplifier design almost always has a Zobel network (R-C combination from amplifier output to ground) that keeps the amplifier loaded. In my practical experience, I have never seen or heard a cable causing an amplifier to unload.

So, again, go ahead and use good grade electrical cables. No problem.

There is one brand mentioned above: Belden. It is a very highly respected brand. The material used is visibly superior to anything I have seen.
Personally I have used two core shielded wire for signal, not speaker. I used it for cinema projector sound pick-up. I could have used any Janta brand. But projector area is prone to carbon dust, oil spills etc. I chose Belden as I knew it can handle all dirty environment around it.

I hope that this helps.

Regards,

Ravindra.

 

[pushkarajd]

Though there is a hype around high cost/ grade loudspeaker cables, I am yet to come across a company that will put the electrical parameters of a cable on paper and tie it to superior audio quality. They do use better core and insulation material which get categorized into built quality not audio quality.

Let us assume that a cable manufacturer shows the difference on an oscilloscope. My question is: Do we see audio or hear it? Another question: How much extra are you willing to pay for audio that looks clean but sounds the same to naked ear?

For hecks sake, let us analyze the parameters of a cable that WILL affect sound quality:

1. Wire resistance is the only parameter that will matter in almost all cases. It will cause gain loss that can be compensated easily with volume/ gain setting.
2. Cable capacitance: For the length of wire that we typically use at home, or for that purpose in multipurpose halls, its nothing that will cause filter effect at low, mid or high frequencies.
3. Cable inductance: Usually causes unloading of amplifier at high frequencies. However, a good amplifier design almost always has a Zobel network (R-C combination from amplifier output to ground) that keeps the amplifier loaded. In my practical experience, I have never seen or heard a cable causing an amplifier to unload.

So, again, go ahead and use good grade electrical cables. No problem.

There is one brand mentioned above: Belden. It is a very highly respected brand. The material used is visibly superior to anything I have seen.
Personally I have used two core shielded wire for signal, not speaker. I used it for cinema projector sound pick-up. I could have used any Janta brand. But projector area is prone to carbon dust, oil spills etc. I chose Belden as I knew it can handle all dirty environment around it.

I hope that this helps.

Regards,

Ravindra.

Thanks Ravi! This helps a lot!

 

[keith_correa]

Just twist tight the strands and tin them. No oxidation issues.

If the twisted dia is larger than the hole in the binding post, cut off strands of wire till they fit.

 

[Dr.Lakshay]

WRT, look, I already have my AVR inside a cabinet and my entire cabling is concealed, hence for looks, I don't think it would matter.

Even my cables are hardly visible. But it just gives me a peace of mind that they do look good. And the fact that banana plugs, heat shrink and cable sleeve can be bought at a very reasonable cost makes it a no brainer for me. These companies that sell custom cables charge so high for these little (and more) changes and you can do that on your own for a fraction of money.

 

[pushkarajd]

Just twist tight the strands and tin them. No oxidation issues.

If the twisted dia is larger than the hole in the binding post, cut off strands of wire till they fit.

Just twist tight the strands and tin them. No oxidation issues.

If the twisted dia is larger than the hole in the binding post, cut off strands of wire till they fit.

Exactly! I think you hit the bull's eye! I too think it is not necessary to have banana plugs just for oxidation purpose. Just ensure that any extra length needs to be cut-off to fit in exact and there will be no oxidation issues.