Vsonic GR06 + Sansa Clip+/Cowon C2

kartick

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Hi,

I recently bought an Ipod classic and I found it extremely bright in its SQ and hence sold it off. I am looking to get a new portable rig for which my main lookouts are Warm, Mids-Centric and Musical SQ. I want something which does not lose out on details and does not compromise on any part of the spectrum but still presents the mids/vocals briliantly.

I mainly listen to classic rock, blues, some jazz.

Based on reading a zillion articles/reviews online, I could get down to shortlisting the following :

MP3 Players :

Sansa Clip +

Worries : Battery life, Occasional reports of QC (headphone jack channel issues)

Cowon C2

Worry : Costs double than a clip+ for an 8GB version (price is still not a big deal), at places reported to be borderline harsh/sibilant and having bright presentation

In the earphones section, I have shortlisted the following :

Vsonic GR06

Doubts : Are the trebles harsh with the 06 ? Retails around 4.3k in India..is the prices justified ?? On ebay, it is available for around 60 USD shipped (Plus duty I'm guessing). Is the sound really mid centric and lush?

Hifiman RE-262

Doubts : Have gotten feedback that this set requires ample amping to make it shine. Is it a better choice than GR06 unamped. I would not be using a portable amp.

Soundmagic E30

Doubt : Selling for around 2k, is it a better IEM than GR06 ? I do not want to make a compromise on SQ, so even if GR06 is expensive and still has better mids and overall sound, I wont mind paying the extra cash.

I would be delighted if the veterans like ESanthosh and others who have used these products could throw some light and clear these doubts of mine.

It would be excellent if anyone from Delhi has these products and can let me try these out for like half an hour or so. Would be much appreciated.

Cheers
Kartick
 
I was using Sansa Fuze+ with Brainwavz M4, and I liked it very well.

Before buying I was concerned about Sansa Fuze+ touch panel, as it had lots of negative feedback across the web. But I never faced any problem. May be I did not face problem as I never used it with songs loaded on expanded memory card. I was just using the 8GB internal storage.

Brainwavz M4 was more neutral with adequate bass. I also had Soundmagic PL30 paired with this player for some time. But I found soundmagic bright and was lacking bass

My cousin who visited my place recently, liked the combo of Sansa Fuze+, Brainwavz M4, and is the current owner of the combo. So I am also in lookout for buying a portable player.

I am planning between Cowon C2, D2+ or Sansa Fuze+. From what I read, Sansa Fuze+ or Clip+ is more neutral than Cowon players.

About IEM, following are in the radar currently

Signature Acoustics Elements C12 In Ear Monitors

VC02, Lend Me Ur Ears
 
It's been a long time since I have used IEMs. So, my knowledge is dated. But, somethings hardly change, so I will attempt to post something useful here :eek:

Bright Players?

Which version of iPod Classic were you using and with which IEM did you find it bright?

Most, but not all players, are almost flat in FR. Whatever happens to the final output is more dependent on the IEM, loudness used, the interaction between the player and IEM (output impedance of player + FR of IEM + Impedance and Sensitivity of IEM + Impedance-Phase characteristics of IEM). In fact, iPod Classic 6G seems to have a gentle slope past 8Khz unlike a flatter iPhone 4. This seems similar to my iPad 3 (See here). I'd hardly call iPad 3 'bright' except may be with bright IEMs at higher volumes.

Though this may not be as reliable (as Rin / GE / Sonove), here's a RMAA of iPod Classic

No Load: RightMark Audio Analyzer test : iPod Classic
SE425:RightMark Audio Analyzer test : iPod Classic & Shure SE425
D2000: RightMark Audio Analyzer test : iPod Classic & AH-D2000

I assume you were probably getting something like SE425's graph?

IEMs:

My rating is

RE-262 (amped or not) >> GR06 > E30

  • It is true that RE262 improves performance with an amp, but IMO, it is fine even without an amp. When used without an amp, it would halve the battery life of the player. I'd suggest using an amp for this reason rather thanextracting that last 5-10% of performance. Of course, if your preferences / requirements fall within that 5-10% of performance, then subjectively, you are free to claim 30-40% improvement and would never ever hear RE-262 without an amp :)
  • RE-262 is a discontinued IEM. So, you may need to buy it used either locally or from head-fi.
  • The build quality of Hifiman products has never been that great. QC issues and failure within warranty period are a common issue. I survived with their RE0 with even poorer build for a couple of years though.
  • One thing with both 262 and 272 is that their cable tends to harden with use (near the housing - mostly due to interaction with sweat, I guess).
  • Otherwise, it ticks the right boxes - vocals, rolled-off treble, bass never intruding on the mid range, lack of sibilance.

GR06 is a very good IEM. VSonic has decent build quality and supplies lot of accessories. But, GR06 is not great in the mids, which IIRC, were slightly lacking in clarity. But, beware - all VSonics have a tendency to be sibilant. Considering how you value vocals, your ears may go nuts when they ssssssss it ;). Depending on the model, they are either slightly / mildly / irritatingly sibilant. GR06 was in the bearable category.

E30 is a decent budget IEM. It has a good balance, an open sound stage, decent signature. It won't be as good as the others. Brainwavz M1-M5 and SA's C12 fall around a similar range in terms of SQ. I think, despite the lack of bass quantity, M3 might be more suitable based on this review.

Shures in general have a good mid range. I've only tried their 535, but from reading, it seems that it is the 'Shure house sound'. They do have build quality issues, but SE215 is a good choice to consider.

Sony XBA-1/10 could also be considered. They are rolled off at either end, but have good mid range. But, I felt XBA-3 was better overall. XBA-3 strangely, improves with higher impedance players. It's frequency response gets relatively flatter when impedance is added. Otherwise, it's bass with players like Clip+ is slightly north of what I like.

Hifiman RE-400 is another contender in the $100 category. But that is more from a clarity/detail perspective. I am not sure if that is what you are looking for. VSonic VC02 linked above falls in the same category, but is cheaper.

Yamaha EPH-100 is another choice. It is one of the safer choices to recommend when one is unsure of the preferences of the other. It ticks almost all right boxes. The only problems I feel are if you wanted to get more tips / repair it, you may be in trouble. Otherwise, it offers a good set of build quality, sound quality (not lacking in bass, not overly enthusiastic with upper mids and treble, good sound stage, great separation, a pleasant sound, does not lack much).

Of the ones mentioned, my ranking would be RE262 > GR07 MKI > EPH-100 > XBA-3 > XBA-1 > GR06 > E30. Others are based on Joker's reviews.

Players

Clip+ is also durable and very portable. I have dropped them 4-5 times (accidentally) in years, but they work without a hitch. You can consider Clip Zip as well. While they have a flat FR, low output impedance and generally good enough for almost any impedance/sensitivity IEM, they are not powerful with slightly hard to drive IEMs. It's sound stage is fine by itself, but not when you compare it to other players.

Cowons are famed for their battery life and re-using their 2008 stock of Wolfsons and other components over and over :rolleyes:. If there's a reason to use Cowons, it would be battery life and the built-in EQ. It's 'Normal' sound has never been that enticing - sounds a bit life-less (though I never use EQ with my X9). You should probably ask rallynut about his experience of getting adjusted to Cowon J3 coming from iPods. I generally consider Clip+ to be better sounding than Cowons' stock sound, but there are many who would disagree with me.

See if you can find an old iPod Video 5/5.5G. To my ears, they are better sounding than Clip+ or Cowons. Their headphone out is a bit problematic due to higher OI. But once combined with a transparent amp like UHA-6S MKI, it sounds more lively.

Sony, depending on the model, can sound terrific or terrible. It's a pity they never released their famed X series in India. Even if costlier, they might be a better choice for you going by what I've read. Some models are good, some not so. In general, their players lack output power and some may have a slightly congested sound stage.

Hifiman 60x are warm sounding with forward mids, but I do not like their other characteristics (collapses sound stage on some, treble gets rolled off, UI not so great to use, cost), which is why I am not suggesting them to you. But, be aware that my idea of a player is one that allows the IEM's signature to shine through without interfering. So, others would have a different take on it.

Hope this helps......
 
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Thanks for your reply Esanthosh. And just to briefly state, I was using Ipod Classic from the one generation previous to the latest one and had paired it with SA C12 and sibilance drilled a hole in my ears. Godd. I also used it with Soundmagic ES18, Philips SHE9800.

I will come back to your reply in detail in some time but just to add another query to my already list of queries.

I have been reading stuff about Colorfly C3. I have to say keeping aside some quirks related to file transfers, etc., this player seems to trump all other players listed above in SQ.

Whats your take on the C3 ?? Would considering CK4 which is almost twice the price, be a better option.



Cheers.
 
I find C3 to have very small display (less than an inch)

About C4, here is some CONS from a review in another forum
The Bad:



-24/192Khz BIT HD files I played had "ticks and pops" like album static. This was on every track I listened to. The sound quality was amazing between these audible noises:)

-The MicroSD slot is hard to use. I also expect problems from this design if the slot is used regularly.

-No Touch screen features on the nice display. Ok, so I am spoiled with my many phones and Ipods. This is a personal bother more than anything.

-HD playback only supported on WAV files

-The "Music" folder is not seen by Windows 7. I can't copy files directly to the Music folder. I had to copy everything to the root folder. The unit updates the files but doesn't put them in the proper folders.

-Headphone jack doesn't support IEM's with mic(like ones used on Iphones). No issue for me but Phonak and Klipsch users beware:)

-Pop and clicks when selecting certain menu's.

-There are no instructions in English at all. To get the unit to the "English" settings requires you guess at the menus until you find it:) It was almost fun.

-User defined EQ bands are very generic. I would like to see a 20Hz-20Khz 31 band, but I'm just dreaming:)

here is the original link Colorfly CK4 first review

Have you checked Sansa Fuze+. It costs less than Rs.5000 for 8GB model
 
I was using Ipod Classic from the one generation previous to the latest one and had paired it with SA C12 and sibilance drilled a hole in my ears. Godd

Three things come to mind, none of which may be valid. Only you can say....

  1. Is it not possible that the sibilance in the recording is masked / smoothed out in the rest, while it's brought out by C12? If this is the case, RE262 and EPH-100 are good choices to consider.
  2. You are too sensitive in that particular region, so any player with a revealing IEM may spell trouble. I hope you listen at lower volumes.
  3. C12 has a slight bump in FR in that region.
  4. iPod Classic was at fault. If this is the case, then there must be some other reference for you (player / phone) where there is less/no sibilance. Otherwise, I do not understand why you'd blame the player and sell it.

I have been reading stuff about Colorfly C3. I have to say keeping aside some quirks related to file transfers, etc., this player seems to trump all other players listed above in SQ.

Whats your take on the C3 ?? Would considering CK4 which is almost twice the price, be a better option.

If you want a costlier 'audiophile' player, better look at iBasso DX100 or RW-AK100. I am not sure when HM-901 is coming out, but that may be worth looking at.

I have no idea about C3 / CK4. In general, I am not too enthusiastic about 'audiophile' players. They receive high praise for their supposed SQ from many quarters, but are a hassle to use daily. QC is not the best as most of them come from small, obscure manufacturers. If you are ready to live with shortcomings, less than ideal UI and minor quirks you will detect from time to time, then keep one of those players as one of your options.

I do own one 'audiophile' player in QLS QA350 Mod V2. But that brick is used mostly as a transport. It is built well (better than HM-601 I tried), but severely restricted in it's usage.
 
Three things come to mind, none of which may be valid. Only you can say....

  1. Is it not possible that the sibilance in the recording is masked / smoothed out in the rest, while it's brought out by C12? If this is the case, RE262 and EPH-100 are good choices to consider.
  2. You are too sensitive in that particular region, so any player with a revealing IEM may spell trouble. I hope you listen at lower volumes.
  3. C12 has a slight bump in FR in that region.
  4. iPod Classic was at fault. If this is the case, then there must be some other reference for you (player / phone) where there is less/no sibilance. Otherwise, I do not understand why you'd blame the player and sell it.

If you want a costlier 'audiophile' player, better look at iBasso DX100 or RW-AK100. I am not sure when HM-901 is coming out, but that may be worth looking at.

I have no idea about C3 / CK4. In general, I am not too enthusiastic about 'audiophile' players. They receive high praise for their supposed SQ from many quarters, but are a hassle to use daily. QC is not the best as most of them come from small, obscure manufacturers. If you are ready to live with shortcomings, less than ideal UI and minor quirks you will detect from time to time, then keep one of those players as one of your options.

I do own one 'audiophile' player in QLS QA350 Mod V2. But that brick is used mostly as a transport. It is built well (better than HM-601 I tried), but severely restricted in it's usage.

Well it could be possible but I tried the C12 with at least 4 different sources and they were sibilant to my ears every single time. Also atleast 30 hours burn in was given to them. Can you guide me as to where can I source Yamaha EPH-100 from in India?

I listen to my music at reasonable volumes and at times increase the volume as well but that said, I have not felt my ears hurt by sibilance with phones like SM ES-18 and PL-50.

I gave all the chances to the C12 but it did not relax in the Highs. I even tried it with the Fiio E11 but results were not any less sibilant.

As far as the Classic goes, this is not the first time I bought a Classic. I had one a couple of years ago and lost it in office. I even found it bright even then but after spending a lot of time over quality vs capacity, I decided to get another one. But hey, I could not take the SQ. Anyways, I have no issues with finding whether Classic was at fault or not, but I have found my peace that Classic aint the player for me.

I actually do not want to spend over 10k for the player unless it is something which will make the others sub 10k players make sound like a joke. I am inclined towards the C2 (for battery life) or Clip+/Zip (VFM). Is there any notable difference between the zip & clip+ ? Would a 64gb MicroSD formatted in Fat32 work with the clip/zip? I need to finalize something soon.

Any thoughts over the T-PEOS H100 ??
 
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EPH-100 is not available in India. It was available from AudioAffair for 74 GBP, but prices seem to have gone to 94 GBP shipped. If you are restricting purchases locally, choices get limited to Brainwavz M3, Sony XBA-1/10/3/30, E30 and VSonics.

Clip Zip and Clip+ would sound similar, if not the same. Usually, Sansas all share a similar signature. But, with each generation, they change the SoC which might result in smaller differences (I - Fuze V1 and Clip, II - Fuze V2 and Clip+, III - Fuze+ and Clip Zip (I think)). Between Fuze v1 and Clip+, there was only a loudness difference (with both at the same volume level, Clip+ was louder). So, except for that tiny album art and small increase in screen estate, CZ should be very similar to Clip+. iaudio had previously owned Clip+ and now owns CZ, so may be he will be able to guide you better on the differences (if any).

I am using a 64GB microSDXC card formatted into FAT32 with Clip+. So, no issues whatsoever on that front. I guess it would work with Cowon players as well, though I've not tried it with my X9 yet.

If you have already bought Classic twice and felt the same way, I'd trust your ears and take your word for it :)

This is the first time I am hearing about TPEOS H100 (shows you how long I've been out of head-fi). I checked a few reviews and feel that they may not suit you. Treble happy has been a complaint, which is strike one. MuppetFace found mids to be recessed, bass to be nothing to write home about and treble to be thin and tizzy. So, I am not sure you should be considering it.
 
EPH-100 is not available in India. It was available from AudioAffair for 74 GBP, but prices seem to have gone to 94 GBP shipped. If you are restricting purchases locally, choices get limited to Brainwavz M3, Sony XBA-1/10/3/30, E30 and VSonics.

Clip Zip and Clip+ would sound similar, if not the same. Usually, Sansas all share a similar signature. But, with each generation, they change the SoC which might result in smaller differences (I - Fuze V1 and Clip, II - Fuze V2 and Clip+, III - Fuze+ and Clip Zip (I think)). Between Fuze v1 and Clip+, there was only a loudness difference (with both at the same volume level, Clip+ was louder). So, except for that tiny album art and small increase in screen estate, CZ should be very similar to Clip+. iaudio had previously owned Clip+ and now owns CZ, so may be he will be able to guide you better on the differences (if any).

I am using a 64GB microSDXC card formatted into FAT32 with Clip+. So, no issues whatsoever on that front. I guess it would work with Cowon players as well, though I've not tried it with my X9 yet.

If you have already bought Classic twice and felt the same way, I'd trust your ears and take your word for it :)

This is the first time I am hearing about TPEOS H100 (shows you how long I've been out of head-fi). I checked a few reviews and feel that they may not suit you. Treble happy has been a complaint, which is strike one. MuppetFace found mids to be recessed, bass to be nothing to write home about and treble to be thin and tizzy. So, I am not sure you should be considering it.

Finally took the simpler and safer route for now, ordered Sansa Clip Zip 8 GB today from Grabmore.in . Awaiting delivery now. Have to order a 64gb Class 10 SDXC card. Any suggestions where I can get it at the lowest price online ?
 
The Fiio X3 DAP should be out in China next week, and by June elsewhere. With hi-rez play back, all kinds of connectivity options and E17 sound signature... at an approx $200 price tag, it may be worth waiting a coupe of months for.

The dealer poster and details were put up on the Fiio Facebook page a few days back.
 
The Fiio X3 DAP should be out in China next week, and by June elsewhere. With hi-rez play back, all kinds of connectivity options and E17 sound signature... at an approx $200 price tag, it may be worth waiting a coupe of months for.

The dealer poster and details were put up on the Fiio Facebook page a few days back.

Interesting prospect. :clapping:

For now, I will use the recently ordered Sansa Clip Zip. Hopefully, I will receive the product tomorrow or Monday. This will also satiate my want to try the hugely popular and appreciated Sansa players. Once the Fiio player is out and has been reviewed extensively, I will see if the SQ is of my liking, I may decide to get it.

Thanks for bringing this to notice though.
 
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