WDTV vs Pioneer DV610 (Burr-brown DAC?).

[BLASTO]

Hi,

I recently acquired a musichall CD player (which Iam cherishing at the moment) which made my WDTV look like a dud.

This CD player comes with a burr-brown 1738 DAC and is just plain awesome. It sells for $600 in the US and got a killer deal of 19k in hyderabad. All these for another thread.

Now, I downloaded few flac files which I have been playing in the WDTV. Which did not sound much better than mp3 counterparts. I discounted it to the flacs being 'not so great' till now. But when I burned them into a audio CD and played via the CD player, the difference was 'night and day' no comparison. It was exactly same as original audio CDs.

Though I did not feel anything missing in movie sounds, I now wonder if there is anyhing that could hugely surpass the WDTV in that price range.

This made me do a research on what is the cheapest DVD player that has a comparable burr-brown DAC which I can lay hands on.



Enter the Pioneer...

Now the pioneer 6 series (600 & 610) seem to have a burr-brown 1742 DAC (according to articles in this forum and elsewhere), accepts all discsincluding DVD, DVD-A, SACD, ACD and what not and costs like 6.5k !!!

Now this put me in a confused state.. How can such a capable player cost so less? The dac in question is an high power version of the one in my CD player which means more costly.

Will this DAC play a role in DVD sound processing also? If yes, Iam sure the improvement is going to be really high. Is it wise to buy one of these players? Will they sound as good as my CD player?

Awaiting answers.

 

[manoj.p]

Well, the WDTV's audio processing and DAC has nothing to write about. It's is meant to use as a av streamer so get bitperfect digital audio from HDMI. So no surprises there about what you found out.

About the Pioneer, better try. Would be interesting to know what you find out.

 

[venkatcr]

Now the pioneer 6 series (600 & 610) seem to have a burr-brown 1742 DAC (according to articles in this forum and elsewhere), accepts all discsincluding DVD, DVD-A, SACD, ACD and what not and costs like 6.5k !!!

Now this put me in a confused state.. How can such a capable player cost so less? The dac in question is an high power version of the one in my CD player which means more costly.

Will this DAC play a role in DVD sound processing also? If yes, Iam sure the improvement is going to be really high. Is it wise to buy one of these players? Will they sound as good as my CD player?

A popular DAC chip is not very expensive. For example, if Pioneer buys a 100,000 of those Burr Brown DACs, they will get it for a few dollars each.
Implementing them and designing a circuitry around them is a different matter. Pioneer DVD players are meant to be VFM for playing DVDs. That are 'also ran' for music playing. If you want to look at a good player that can play all media and give reasonable music delivery, the minimum you should look at is the Oppo 95.

Cheers

 

[BLASTO]

Hi Venkat Sir/Others,

My requirement is simple. Iam not expecting to play ACD via DVD/Bluray player.

I downloaded a set of concert DVDs and flacs.

The WDTV played both bad. It was more pronounced in the flac as there is nothing to distract (as in no video).

Now my CD player did an awesome job in instrument placing, seperation and spaciousness.

Iam expecting the same kind of music when I play the DVD also. Iam looking for a DVD player which will do that for me.

Bluray player is not my current requirement.

Any leads highly appreciated.

Edit: To be more specific, Iam looking at 2.0 performance and not 5.1.

 

[hemantwaghe]

A popular DAC chip is not very expensive. For example, if Pioneer buys a 100,000 of those Burr Brown DACs, they will get it for a few dollars each.
Implementing them and designing a circuitry around them is a different matter. Pioneer DVD players are meant to be VFM for playing DVDs. That are 'also ran' for music playing. If you want to look at a good player that can play all media and give reasonable music delivery, the minimum you should look at is the Oppo 95.

Cheers

Sir Pioneer Dvd cannot be underestimated.In fact there are couple of companies who "upgrade" Pio Dvd to audiophile standard. ( I have seen such item ,now not able to get any links except

StereoTimes -- The ModWright

 

[venkatcr]

Hemanth, please remember, the Pioneer DVD is a mass market item, and is sold at a low price. It primary objective is to be universal player with decoding done outside.

Literally any product can be modded and made better. At times, the modding cost will be 2x to 10x of the original price.

Cheers

 

[sonosphere]

Hi,

Will this DAC play a role in DVD sound processing also? If yes, Iam sure the improvement is going to be really high. Is it wise to buy one of these players? Will they sound as good as my CD player?

Awaiting answers.

Hi,
I am giving only educated guess here, based on reviews on web...
1. The Pioneer DAC will also do DVD sound processing.
2. There will be an improvement in SQ as compared to WDTV (Though not as good as you CDP, but worth the 6-7 k price spent)

I believe the WDTV was primarily designed as a low-cost digital-out device for various types of audio-video file formats, and the audio / video out of WDTV is to be used till the time one gets the budget to add (thru digi-out) a better DAC /Video processor:lol:

Regds,

 

[hemantwaghe]

Hemanth, please remember, the Pioneer DVD is a mass market item, and is sold at a low price. It primary objective is to be universal player with decoding done outside.

Literally any product can be modded and made better. At times, the modding cost will be 2x to 10x of the original price.

Cheers

Sorry sir not able to put whole links
Just check this ( I still have my doubts about the article)
But they cannot cheat in photos

Goldmund V.S. Pioneer !!??

goldmund ripoff - pink fish media

Audiophile scams! 6k CD player repackaged 200$ pioneer DVD and more - Home Audio, Car Audio, Amplifiers, Cables - abi>>forums

Btw same as oppo rebadged as lexicon scam!

Intersting reading ,maybe there is some difference in goldmound cd.

 

[venkatcr]

I have read these comparisons before. I have been a long term user of Pioneer DVDPs, and believe me, they are sturdy and they play movies very well. But they do not even try to be a good audio player.

Cheers

 

[hemantwaghe]

I have read these comparisons before. I have been a long term user of Pioneer DVDPs, and believe me, they are sturdy and they play movies very well. But they do not even try to be a good audio player.

Cheers

sir any experience of comparison of Same DVD player and it's "rip off?"
I mean anytime you or someone auditioned Pioneer and Goldmound back to back?

BTW sir many sites claim that least for transport many "hi end" use cd tranports by Philips ,Sony or Pioneer right? But are there any examples of such "relabelling?"

 

[venkatcr]

A transport is just a transport that holds the CD, rotates it, and reads the data. All over the world, transports are made by a few people. But the real masala of a CDP/DVDP is the electronics that is built in.

I dont have to compare with a Goldmund. My Oppo 983 used to beat my Pioneer hollow, and my Audio PC is in a complete different league with the same amplifiers and speakers.

Cheers

 

[BLASTO]

Looks like external DAC is the way to go.

Came accross this listing with pretty HIGH claims for like 12k. Any comments?

Wolfson WM8741 High Performance Super Mini DAC | eBay

 

[venkatcr]

Blasto, I am little concerned that many of our members, including you seem to be fascinated by these fly-by-night operators that work on eBay. I would suggest that you look at a branded DAC. You, at least, have the comfort of a brand that has done some R&D and testing before bringing out the product.

The other method is for of us to get together and make a DIY DAC that is available to all of us. I think a few people tried and it was not a success. Viren assembled a DIY DAC, and even that, if I remember right came to about 25K.

Choose your products carefully.

Cheers

 

[manoj.p]

My suggestion would be to get a receiver with a better DAC, like Burr Browns to be least. Many of the latest AVR's play files like FLAC through the USB port. That way, you will get direct connection to the DAC. It will kill two birds in one.

 

[hemantwaghe]

Looks like external DAC is the way to go.

Came accross this listing with pretty HIGH claims for like 12k. Any comments?

Wolfson WM8741 High Performance Super Mini DAC | eBay

This guy is our member right?

 

[hemantwaghe]

Looks like external DAC is the way to go.

Came accross this listing with pretty HIGH claims for like 12k. Any comments?

Wolfson WM8741 High Performance Super Mini DAC | eBay

check this ....i like his "R&D"

Wolfson WM8741 Mini DAC - Group buy

 

[venkatcr]

There were some discussions between HFV and 'Soundciti' where he was supposed to give me a DAC for testing and review. He never reverted to us. HFV cannot take any responsibility for the product or it's capability.

Cheers

 

[BLASTO]

I went through the previous threads and looks like the seller was already in this forum earlier and did not gain much momentum.

He has also listed the product in the ebay US but I could not get much reviews or user inputs.

This is the same DAC which is used in Arcam rDac which has both optical and coaxial inputs and costs about 25k. Considering that 13.5k for a DIY without optical input is pretty steep and COULD be good also.

A Dac comparable to my Cd player is the MusicHall Dac 25.3 which sells for $300 and also has optical inputs. So I will have good benchmarks if I plan to do a A-B comparison. He has a 100% rating which makes me wonder if his products are reallu genuine.

On the flip side, this could really be a good budget DIY and we will never know until we test it out. It looks like a basic headphone amp though which are available for much less.

Alternatively, The seller is in chennai and I think could be willing to give one of this products for demo for one of our chennai members if he honestly feels that this is a great product.

The absence of optical in limits its use (heavily) though. I have asked him for home demo with returns. Let see what he decides to do.

 

[BLASTO]

Hi Venkat sir,

Good to know that what I was trying to do has already happened.
Looks like time to keep away until he provides 100% money back.

 

[BLASTO]

My suggestion would be to get a receiver with a better DAC, like Burr Browns to be least. Many of the latest AVR's play files like FLAC through the USB port. That way, you will get direct connection to the DAC. It will kill two birds in one.

The most confusing part is, the sterio (2 channel) amps almost never come with a dac or digital inputs. The sterio output from a 5.1 channel receiver is very bad for sterio until the cost is >50 - 60k

I dont know why the sterio receivers with digital inputs are so scarse.