Wharfedale 9.5 with PM6003

[yahoo0212]

Hii I want to purchase Wharfes 9.5....
Well missed vinod_david sir s CA amp.. which was a powerful one though..
As i am on tight budget ,, I want to decide between these 2 amps.
Marantz PM6003 (In grey its abt 16000)
or
Denon PM 710 (20+)
my point is that,, whether as a stereo amp will the PM6003 a 45 wpc amp will be able to drive the Wharfedales 150W speakers well... or I need to buy the Denon 710 amp. 7003/7004 amp s way above my budget... so please help deciding...

 

[yahoo0212]

No Norges please.. I din like them. I had auditioned the WD 9.5 with Denon 710 amp some time back... they were good... but heard a lot about Marantz and Wharfedale synergy. so its a dilemma whether to go for Wd-Marantz synergy or WD-Denon Power..

 

[TaureanBull]

This is a fantastic combo. Works very well. You can even go for 10.5! People may differ with you but i have it and i never felt that the speakers are underpowered.

 

[mukum]

HI,

It is a very good combination, I had used the same nearly more than a year. Idle for stereo set up.

 

[TaureanBull]

This discussion was there before also. Let me tell you again. Many FS speaker combo sell with this amp. Just go for audition. I can assure you that the dealer wont even suggest a BS for this amp unless you ask for it!

Specs wise also they match. I am not sure if people audition and then comment or just by specs and guessing. I could not cross 9o'clock volume position.

Just audition and trust your ears.

 

[jaudere]

Hi,
Hi,
I use pm 6002 with ventronic which are large book shelves with twin 8" woofers. No problems. Never needed to go beyond 12 o block position.
All standard speakers give a range of amp power suitable for them e.g.15w-75w. So check that out for your speakers. Its either in manual or written on the label near the connector.
If your room is less than 16X12 feet &if its for purely for music, that 45w/ch is enough. In action movies,there are a lot of low frequency sounds below 45Hz which need a lot of amp power. In music there are very few sounds which come below 50Hz.By the way same pm6002 can pump 60w into 4 ohm speakers.
I have read that to get twice as loud of a 45w amp,you need a 450w amp. A 90w amp is just 1.1 times louder
.than 45w amp.
Whats the sensitivity of 9.5?thats another important thing written on the label. Anything above 93 is highly sensitive & you hardly need some 20w to drive such speakers to deafening level. I think wharfs have sensitivity of around 86 or so which is not great. Still Marantz should drive them easily at least for music.

I have compared denon710 with norge1000 on Q acoustics towers. I couldnt find much difference. I compared Norge & Marantz on KEF towers once & on Infinity towers the second time. Both times i found marantz to be superior. i wont recommend denon. By the way the infinity had a lovely sound when paired with Marantz.

 

[murali_n]

This discussion was there before also. Let me tell you again. Many FS speaker combo sell with this amp. Just go for audition. I can assure you that the dealer wont even suggest a BS for this amp unless you ask for it!

Specs wise also they match. I am not sure if people audition and then comment or just by specs and guessing. I could not cross 9o'clock volume position.

Just audition and trust your ears.

Hi all,

I second Musicmaya, PM 6003 with MS Aviano-2, gives more bass than with WHF 9.5. This I tell after listening the combo for a week. If the room is small to medium i.e 12x10 feet or more BS will do more justice than a FS.

Just my Rs.2/-

N.Murali

 

[The Wall]

Sorry to barge in , but since the discussion is centered around the PM6003 , can anyone confirm where I could buy 1 from ?

 

[murali_n]

Hi Tw,

Pl go thro this :

http://www.hifivision.com/authorised-dealers/2310-marantz-availability-kolkata.html

Hope this helps

N.Murali

 

[yahoo0212]

Whats the sensitivity of 9.5?thats another important thing written on the label. Anything above 93 is highly sensitive & you hardly need some 20w to drive such speakers to deafening level. I think wharfs have sensitivity of around 86 or so which is not great. Still Marantz should drive them easily at least for music.

I have compared denon710 with norge1000 on KEF towers. I couldnt find much difference. So i wont recommend denon.

Thanks for yr review...
Its 88db...

 

[jaudere]

you can drive the wharfs with PM6003, but the drive is not that enough for the wharfs to show their mettle

you need a min of 70wpc for proper synergy for wharfs

PM6003 is more suited for BS speakers

Hi,

Ability to drive a speaker depends on sensitivity and not wattage of speaker. Sensitivity is more important than whether a speaker is tower or BS Or mounted on wall or in ceiling or outdoor or whatever. From where has that figure of 70w cropped up? Is it something like speaker wattage divided by 2 or something?

Speaker wattage of150w or so is given for safety limit so that someone does not drive it with some 2000watt amp and blow speakers. Dont misunderstand here. You can safely drive 150w speakers with 2000w amp provided that you dont turn the volume knob much. But force 500w into speaker and it will blow. Similarly, a 20w amp can damage a speaker of 100w at full volume due to distortion.
A home user is almost never going to use even 70w power on RMS(continuous) Basis although few peaks 'may' reach that value sometimes.

If you see, public address system speakers as highly sensitive (98 or so) because they want to be maximally loud with least possible energy.
It is said that initial few watts are most important. Thats how people are getting decent results with Topping which is a 10w/ch amp paired with some common speakers . I am not sure but i think the logic is same where tube amps give adequate sound level with 3-4 watts(with suitably paired sensitive speakers)

Important question is 1)how many clean distortion free watts rather than how many watts 2)head room for the passages which needs high energy occassionbly rather than continuously. Marantz 45w/ch,if i am not wrong gives a headroom of another 45w to give 90w for those temporary bursts that are needed.

 

[jaudere]

then why do u need a PM6003? why don't you use a Chinese TP20 amp to drive the FS

Hmmm. Seems that you are pretty upset. Boss, cool down.

I use marantz pm 6002 because thats my choice. One can definitely try to drive FS Of good sensitivity(say more than 93db/watt) with Topping. The results will be decent as far as loudness is concerned. Whether one likes sound signature is a matter of personal taste.

Just for ur information, i use philips Mcd 177 in my bedroom set up with home made towers. I am extremely happy with its performance. I just cant go beyond 9o clock position on it. Its just 20w/ch for 4 ohm at 10%THD. So roughly 12watt at 1% THD. Now my home made speakers are 4 ohm. The sensitivity of the main driver is 93(which is somewhat reduced by crossover). Still the sound is loud enough to give me goose skin at 9-10 o clock position.

Now you will ask why i bought marantz. When i wanted second amp, this philips model was out of production and i couldnt find remaining stock. I had adequate budget for pm 6002. So i bought it.

By the way Marantz was owned by philips in past. I dont know whether this has something to do with similar sound signature(similar sound signature of two is my personal opinion.)

 

[The Wall]

Thanks sir,

I will check with the shop mentioned.

 

[jaudere]

I am happy with not only the theory but practical results of it as well.

Once upon a time, even i was like all others who are stuck up in watts, SNR, Channel separation etc. But then i plunged into speaker building. If failed thrice but i got it right 4th time. In the process lot of my myths were busted. I bought the philips 20w/ch stereo amp even when i had a yamaha AVR With 100 watts/ch playing in stereo mode.

But again thats me. It may not apply to others. So we agree to disagree. If you are hurt by the 'reckless' word, i say sorry for being reckless myself and take my word back. I will edit that post. I will still stick to whatever i said otherwise.

 

[TaureanBull]

I am in 100% agreement with jaudere ( both theory & practical . I own exactly the setup in question by the OP and I dont have any problems whatsoever.

My request is that people should not misguide others without personal experience.

 

[murali_n]

Mr. Taureanbull,

I have the Marantz PM6003 with MS Aviano-2 and I vouch that the bass is more than the WHF 9.5 FS.

All along everyone is commenting on the loudness level and my comments are about the freq response of the speakers. And the WHF 9.5 need powerful amp to drive them to sound their optimum, and it is not PM6003.

N.Murali.

 

[jaudere]

Mr. Taureanbull,

I have the Marantz PM6003 with MS Aviano-2 and I vouch that the bass is more than the WHF 9.5 FS.

All along everyone is commenting on the loudness level and my comments are about the freq response of the speakers. And the WHF 9.5 need powerful amp to drive them to sound their optimum, and it is not PM6003.

N.Murali.

I will agree to your observation that bass with MS is better that WF But somehow i think it is more related to speaker in terms of driver specs , cross over, bass port tuning etc. I dont think its related to amp power.

If we look at it the other way round, if you use more powerful amp(and you actually pump in more power than marantz), you will automatically go louder everywhere and not only in bass. You cannot get only bass better with more powerful amp. The amp has to be tuned that way while being built or later the user has to use some equalization to get improved bass response while keeping all other sounds at same level.

That is exactly why we talk about synergy between amp & speakers. Both have to be tuned so that they cover up each other's short comings. It is more important factor than power in getting better sound.

What the OP Will like is another question. He may still like overall sound of the pair despite somewhat weaker bass because after all bass is not everything. I am sure that sound level generated will be far more than adequate for a home user. Whether he likes Timbre of the sound will depend on him.

Your suggestion may be partially correct. May be marantz is not the right choice but it is not because it is less powerful. It will be because the synergy is lacking between the two said components.

 

[TaureanBull]

Mr. Taureanbull,

I have the Marantz PM6003 with MS Aviano-2 and I vouch that the bass is more than the WHF 9.5 FS.

All along everyone is commenting on the loudness level and my comments are about the freq response of the speakers. And the WHF 9.5 need powerful amp to drive them to sound their optimum, and it is not PM6003.

N.Murali.

Not everyone has same choice of bass. 10.5 has a tighter bass and 9.5 comparatively has boomy bass. There are people who prefer boomy and there are people who prefer tight bass.Its a matter of personal choice.

Dont want to rub more on the issue of need of a more powerful amp. I said before I have the combo, I am more than satisfied and I have never felt the need to go more than 9 O'clock position. :licklips:

May be marantz is not the right choice but it is not because it is less powerful. It will be because the synergy is lacking between the two said components.

For a musical choice there is none better than a Marantz and Wharfedale combo. People swear by their synergy. Made for each other types.

 

[jaudere]

I agree to synergy between wharf and Marantz. Why i said that was if someone is not happy with a particular frequency production of a combination, he should not blame power of amp. Its wrong specification to target.

 

[yahoo0212]

Thats true.. I have auditioned Denon PMA710 also... which is jus 5 watts more.. and it easily and efficiently drives the WD 9.5s....