AVR Connectivity

thanks for such useful information

recently i have purchased onkyo 3400, samsung LED TV and LG BD player
and i have connected them by 2 HDMI connection (BD-->RECEIVER-->TV) and one optical from TV to RECEIVER...is it sufficient connection..?

and can anybody tell where i can get information about different 5.1 channel audio formates ??(i want to know what is PCM multichannel audio which I found in many HD movie and TV series ? )

Wikipedia is always a good place to start to learn a.
about 5.1

to explain other part of question.

A digital audio in uncompressed wav form is PCM. THe DTS, DD and DTHD MA and DD tru HD are all compression formats that compress it in lossy or lossless algorithms.

For a same master - DTS MA = DD tru HD = PCM.

All digital audio must be converted from Compression formats to PCM before being converted to Analog audio. Now either you can let your AVR do that or your player do that, it doens'nt matter. but some people prefer to let player do that to let load off the AVR.

Most movies now prefer DTS MA since PCM takes more space than MA for same track. It leaves space for Extras and Video.
 
and one optical from TV to RECEIVER...is it sufficient connection..?

The optical connection will carry only audio data. You also need to use a composite or component for video connection.

and can anybody tell where i can get information about different 5.1 channel audio formates ??(i want to know what is PCM multichannel audio which i found in many HD movie and TV series ? )

The two main 5.1 audio formats for movies are Dolby and DTS. There are umpteen variations of these in the market. For details on Dolby look at Dolby Technology India Private Limited. For details on DTS, please visit DTS | Home.

What is PCM? Let us go back a little to understand this.

When a movie is shot, the audio is (at at least was) recorded in analogue domain. In a standard film roll, the analogue audio signal is part of the film (outer edges) and is read by special sensors on the projector.

When we come to watching a movie using a DVD, there is not enough space on the media to store all the audio signals. So the analogue signal is digitised and then compressed using various algorithms, mostly owned by Dolby and DTS. When you play the DVD, the player decodes the algorithm and recreates the analogue signal that is amplified and played on your speakers.

The digital representation of any analogue wave is called PCM. What is done is that the analogue wave is sampled at regular intervals and represented by a digital wave. A PCM has two parts - (one) a sampling rate that represents the number of times the analogue wave is read or sampled. This is shown as xxx kHz or so many kilo hertz (or samples) per second. The second is called depth that represents the number of digital samples that are created. This is usually called xx bits. The higher the sampling rate and the higher the bit, the closer the digital wave or PCM is to the original analogue wave.

An audio signal stored on a DVD or Blu-Ray, thus, has multiple parts:

1. A digital representation of 6 or 8 channels of audio called PCM streams or data.
2. A compression methodology for storing the 6 or 8 channels of PCM data.

When playing, what is done is as follows:

1. A decoder reads the compressed data and creates 6 or 8 channels of PCM data.
2. A DAC reads all the channels of PCM and converts them to analogue signals for amplification and playing on speakers.

When you connect a DVD/BR Player or any source to an AVR, you can send the audio data in multiple ways.

1. The player can decode, execute the DAC and create 6 or 8 channels of analogue audio. This is sent in analogue form to the receiver that just amplifies and plays the audio signals.

2. The player can decode and create 6 or 8 channels of PCM. This is sent in digital form to the receiver that does a DAC on each channel, amplifies and then plays the audio on the speakers. This is usually referred to as PCM or multichannel audio.

3. The players does nothing. It just picks up the compressed audio data and sends it as is to the receiver. The receiver decodes and does a DAC followed by amplification and playing. This is usually referred to as bitstreaming or sending data in raw format.

Cheers
 
WOW.....nicely explained sir... really thnakful of you.

this is EXACTLY the kind of guidence and information us nubes (or rather wannabee audiophiles) look for from veterans like you...

so.. lets say, I have a Sony BDS370 as my source reader and Dennon AVR1611 as AVR. where should I do the DAC in this particular setup? (in other words, of the processesing nodes-i.e. Sony BDS370 and Dennon AVR 1611, wehich one has better processing capabilities?)
I understand that if I do the DAC through BDP, I need to connect it to AVR through anlogue out (I do not know if it is there in Sony or not) and if DAC is done through AVR then I will use HDMI to pass through the audio.
 
so.. lets say, I have a Sony BDS370 as my source reader and Dennon AVR1611 as AVR. where should I do the DAC in this particular setup? (in other words, of the processesing nodes-i.e. Sony BDS370 and Dennon AVR 1611, wehich one has better processing capabilities?)

The BDS370 does not have multi channel audio out. So you have to send the audio signals as either LPCM or bitstream. The DAC inside the BDS370 works only for two channel audio.

Cheers
 
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really thank you @venkatcr

how can we get information that whether AVR is decoding or BDP is decoding and where signal converted in analog form.

and i want to know what is direct mode in my AVR(onkyo 3400) ? where can i get information about these different modes in AVR?
 
how can we get information that whether AVR is decoding or BDP is decoding and where signal converted in analog form.

and i want to know what is direct mode in my AVR(onkyo 3400) ? where can i get information about these different modes in AVR?

The information is usually displayed by the AVR. If it displays 'Direct' or 'Multichannel', that means it is amplfying an analogue input. If it display 'Dolby Digital' or 'DTS', that means it is receving digital signal and decoding it.

Cheers
 
and i want to know what is direct mode in my AVR(onkyo 3400) ? where can i get information about these different modes in AVR?
See page 21 to 24 of the manual.

You can get it from the AVR buttons or from remote.
Under "LISTENING MODE", keep pressing any of the four buttons (MOVIE/TV, MUSIC, GAME, STEREO). You will cycle through all the modes.
 
I'm looking for good quality composite video(+ red,white audio) cables that are locally available.This would be used as a replacement for the standard cables that came with my TataSky SD box.

Any ideas as to any particular brands I could look for and where ?
 
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The information is usually displayed by the AVR. If it displays 'Direct' or 'Multichannel', that means it is amplfying an analogue input. If it display 'Dolby Digital' or 'DTS', that means it is receving digital signal and decoding it.

Cheers

@venkatcr, I respect the sheer knowledge that you possess and share with others. It surely has improved my understanding of the audiophile world a lot!

With regards to the discussion of where the DAC is performed, what is a more preferred "location" for this conversion? The source/player or the Amp? The reason I ask this question is because I use my Sony PS3 to play the BD's/DVD's/CD's et al and it can perform the task of Digital to PCM very effectively (their firmware updates ensures that every new algorithm on the block gets added to their decoder)! I use HDMI to connect so I don't need to worry about any other "loss"... Should I be feeding the PCM to my AMP or feed it the raw bytestream and let it handle the conversion? Any specific reasons to chose one over the other? Signal processing compromise, noise leak, etc?
 
Excellent article Venkat.

Had a query regarding HDMI connections. So if you have a HD/Blu ray or DVD player that upscales and supports HDMI, and connect using the HDMI cable to an HD TV. Since HDMI contains both audio and video signals, won't it be an overhead to retransmit the audio signals back to the AVR. Isnt it better to use a component or any video only signal to go to the TV source?

(I am assuming the AVR is not adding value to the video signal which may not always be the case)

Excellant article venkatcr.. Worth its weight in Gold !! :)


Well I am a noob who has just purchased Onkyo 3400 AVR for my LG 42LE5300LED tv. I have TATA Sky (SD) at the moment ( plan to upgrade to HD on some good offer) and Microsoft xbox 360.

My query is that if I use only HDMI ports for all my A/V needs , will that be lossless enough ??

For example if I connect my TATA SKY composite outputs to the input of the AVR and from the AVR take the output to the HDMI input will it work decently ?? obviously I am not expecting any upscaling in signal as the signal is not HD.

Furthemore if I connect my xbox 360 via HDMI to AVR and again there is a HDMI output going in to TV which can be switched to take the xbox 360 as input.

In the above various arrangements , will the sound in all times come out through the speakers of the AVR in 5.1 mode ( for tata sky when I move on to HD that is)


My tv does have optical audio output which I can connect to the AVR but I would not want to have unnecessary cables messing up my living room.

many thanks for your help..:)
 
My query is that if I use only HDMI ports for all my A/V needs , will that be lossless enough ??

HDMI carries data in digital form. Lossless or not, depends upon the content. HDMI can carry both lossy and lossless data.

For example if I connect my TATA SKY composite outputs to the input of the AVR and from the AVR take the output to the HDMI input will it work decently ?? obviously I am not expecting any upscaling in signal as the signal is not HD.

If you set the AVR output to TV as HDMI all signals will be routed through the HDMI. The HDMI will upscale only if you set it to upscale. If you set it to through, it will just pass the signal as is.

Furthemore if I connect my xbox 360 via HDMI to AVR and again there is a HDMI output going in to TV which can be switched to take the xbox 360 as input.

In the above various arrangements , will the sound in all times come out through the speakers of the AVR in 5.1 mode ( for tata sky when I move on to HD that is)

All sound will be trasferred to the speakers, and no sound will go to the TV. If the input signal is stereo, you have to set the AVR is Neo mode so that the sound comes from all speakers. The sound will not be 5.1 unless the AVR gets a Dolby or Digital signal.

My tv does have optical audio output which I can connect to the AVR but I would not want to have unnecessary cables messing up my living room.

If you connect the set top box to the AVR, you do not have to connect the TV to anything. Remember the TV is not receiving any signals. It is the set top box that is doing it.

Cheers


many thanks for your help..:)[/QUOTE]
 
HDMI carries data in digital form. Lossless or not, depends upon the content. HDMI can carry both lossy and lossless data.



If you set the AVR output to TV as HDMI all signals will be routed through the HDMI. The HDMI will upscale only if you set it to upscale. If you set it to through, it will just pass the signal as is.

Furthemore if I connect my xbox 360 via HDMI to AVR and again there is a HDMI output going in to TV which can be switched to take the xbox 360 as input.



All sound will be trasferred to the speakers, and no sound will go to the TV. If the input signal is stereo, you have to set the AVR is Neo mode so that the sound comes from all speakers. The sound will not be 5.1 unless the AVR gets a Dolby or Digital signal.



If you connect the set top box to the AVR, you do not have to connect the TV to anything. Remember the TV is not receiving any signals. It is the set top box that is doing it.

Cheers


many thanks for your help..:)
[/QUOTE]


Just had a brainwave .. I don't think the above configuration suggested by me for TATA SKY might work.. Apparently the AVR would not be able to upscale.. So if the input is coming via component from the Tata SKY STB , the it has to go into the TV via component only.. It would not go via HDMI...


however I think we could perhaps put in the audio components ( L and R) into AVR and the video one straight into the TV
 
Just had a brainwave .. I don't think the above configuration suggested by me for TATA SKY might work.. Apparently the AVR would not be able to upscale.. So if the input is coming via component from the Tata SKY STB , the it has to go into the TV via component only.. It would not go via HDMI...


however I think we could perhaps put in the audio components ( L and R) into AVR and the video one straight into the TV[/QUOTE]

If you connect the AVR to TV through an HDMI, irrespective of how you connect a source to the AVR, ALL video will go to the TV. That is called upconversion.

Cheers
 
All sound will be trasferred to the speakers, and no sound will go to the TV. If the input signal is stereo, you have to set the AVR is Neo mode so that the sound comes from all speakers. The sound will not be 5.1 unless the AVR gets a Dolby or Digital signal.
In recent AVRs if the AVR is switched off (so that it goes in standby mode) the TV continues receiving audio+video signal from the last HDMI input selected on the AVR.
 
As per technology, all HDMI cables carry video and multi channel audio at the same time.

There have been some confusion in the minds of people, and I would say sheer stupidity on the part of some manufacturers. Some of the entry level and budget AVRs have this concept called '1080P pass through' or 'video pass through'. What this means is that the video signal is sent to the TV untouched. At the same time the audio signals that come through the HDMI are supposed to be processed by the AVR and played on the speakers.

In its entry level AVR, Onkyo, maybe to save some money, seems to be passing the video and audio signal to the TV without processing either of them. This is, as I said, stupid. I have not seen this personally, but this is what some members here have confirmed and reconfirmed. This also seems to have some value, as the manuals of these AVRs mention that you need to connect the digital optical or digital coaxial for surround sound. When you connect a HDMI, logically you need no other connection.

Yamaha, on the other had, does it properly. It passes the 1080p signal to the TV, but processes the audio signals on its own. I have seen this personally.

HDMI, per se, carries both audio and video signals. So when you are buying an budget AVR, you have to specifically ask the dealer to connect just the HDMI to the AVR, and ensure sound comes. I will go to the extent of peeping behind to ensure there are no other connections.

Cheers
Hi very nice informative article. I am a new entrant to this forum. I want to connect my Sony EX520 TV to the existing DAPIC Home Theatre (5.1). The HT system does not have HDMI or Optical input, it has got only RCA input facility. Is there a cable with Optical out on one end and RCA input on the other end. Can you pls clarify. Tks
 
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