20 Months to hear the first song

[srramanujam]

At last, i managed to listen to the my new speakers Usher Mini Dancer 1. This follows a 20 month search for building the system.

A warm dealer has loaned me one of the amps i had in my shortlist, so that i can listen to it at home with the speakers. I carted the amp home yesterday. It joined the now dormant speakers (for about a month and a half) for overnight rest.

It took me about two hours to get the entire gear assembled in the morning. Right now the gear looks like

Usher Mini Dancer (own)
The Amp (on loan) with an onboard DAC
Samsung DVD player connected to the amp through coaxial
Speakers connected to amp with wires (on loan again from the same dealer)

The music came on at around 1 pm today and is on live now. I have so far listened to

1. Balamurali Krishna (ksheera sagara sayana)
2. Nityashree (Theeratha Vilayattu Pillai)
3. Nityashree (Valli Kanavan)
4. Instrumentals from Hare Rama Hare Krishna
5. Bobby Mcferin (Dont worry)
5. Culture Club (Karma Chamaleon)
6. U Shrinavas
7. Kunnakudi
8. Hari Prasad Chaurasia
9. L Subramaniam
10. Shiv Kumar Sharma (started now)

Quick observations

The speakers sound as the BE 718 that i had heard.
The soundstage that was in the listening room is completely gone at home.
The speakers are very sensitive to listening position. A few movements in the sofa and the sound moves one side to another.
Harsh violins sound pleasant (both Kunnakudi and L Subramaniam pieces had an electric tinge in my earlier listenings)


Major observation
I seem to a music guy rather than equipment guy. A few minutes into the listening i was completely lost in the music. I guess it is good, since i could be through with the choice soon.

Will post more as i listen to more songs. Off to a Kathak performance in the evening, so thats going to cut short the listening.

 

[santhosh]

sramanujam, congrats on your first listen on your own speakers!!

I think you have iadvertently missed which amp(dealer's) you are using? Apart from room acoustics, part of the soundstage missing could be because of pairing with a different amp than what you auditioned with. Will it be long before you start buying the remaining equipment?

 

[spirovious]

congrats & appreciate your patience.

 

[suri]

The soundstage that was in the listening room is completely gone at home.

Hi srramanujam -

define soundstage-

regds

 

[srramanujam]

Suri

When i first heard the Usher BE 718, the vocals were coming dead from the centre, so much so, i thought the centre channel of the other HT setup that was in the room was on. In Carnatic music CDs, i could place the mridangam dead on the left and the ghatam on the right. In fact, in some CDs, the recording was reverse and i could stop that.

Yesterday, that feeling was gone. I am trying to figure out what kind of placement i may need to get it back, if it is possible. It it still some little time away since i have to buy an amp.

Regards

 

[cooltoad]

Congrats, Ramanjuam, dont you think posting in the speaker section will be appropriate?

 

[odyssey]

Hi Ram
getting that kind of imaging is a function of the entire chain including the source, the room and the placement of speakers. It is also important to pull your speakers up away from the back wall and ensure that the space between the speakers is as empty as possible. Finally, the MD-1 speakers image better than the be-718s, do keep us posted on the progress. Which amp are you trying out right now?

Cheers
Sridhar

 

[srramanujam]

I have consciously left out the name of the amp since it has been loaned.

The sound quality that i am getting could be a lot due to the transport (Samsung connected to the DAC in the amp) or the placement (the distance from wall to cabinet is about 10 inches). I didnt want to unnecessarily quote the name and create early impressions.

A little more tweaks will be done today. Hopefully i will get to hear another amp that i am requesting today. I am going to bring the speakers about 8-10 feet from the back wall and about 1.5 feet from side wall.

Heard Yehudi Menuhin Four Seasons and Berlin Symphony - Beethoven 5 & 6. Also managed to hear Ravishankar and yehudi Menuhin, Ravishankar and Zubin Mehta.

Apart from the missing soundstage, the sound quality itself is quite good. Many of my poor recordings also sound listenable.

I can easily get to the 10 o clock position without too much loudnes with these speakers (this is a 100W Per channel amp). The Ushers seem to require some power.

 

[odyssey]

Hi Ram
it's fine that you left out the name. I doubt the transport is the cause of poor soundstage. Your placement is the number 1 reason. Pull them up at least 4 ft from the backwall-for experimentation (even if you can't leave it there). As for wattage, don't get too carried away with the power rating, this depends a lot on the manufacturer and quality of the amp. It will be hard to base watts on this amp alone, amps such as Cyrus have proven to be a poor match with the ushers, whereas others have reported success with other speakers.
Also keep in mind that the room you heard the be718 in was treated and the user had a softer sounding amp. A combination of MD-1s (new) with an SS amp and bare walls is likely to be harsher sounding-in comparison in case this is on your mind
cheers

 

[srramanujam]

I also expect the placement (and the room - it is bare except for a sofa set) as the main reason.

I can pull the speakers upto 8 ft from the back wall and can leave it there too. Planning that in the evening. I did start with the speakers in that position but wife said this is not where it is going to be. Thats a separate battle i will have to handle later on.

Once i hear one more amp (this one had a huge sound stage when i heard it in the demo room) i can be more clear on what i can achieve within the constraints of my room. That will also help me focus on the amp choice better.

 

[dinyaar]

Hi
The room is very important in the way the set up sounds. Some speakers are easier to position and some are not.
U MUST EXPERIMENT WITH POSITIONING and apart from keeping the basics in mind RELY ON YOUR EAR to fine tune the set up.
Secondly these are new speakers and give them time (20/30 hrs) at moderate volumes to start showing their stuff.
U need not pull the speakers toooo far away from a rear wall. Generally 3/4 ft is good enough. The Side wall distance of 1 to 1.5 ft may be causing reflections which can be avoided by moving (if possible) the speaker away from corners/side walls. If the side wall is close then a toe in will help. Yes it will narrow the soundstage but then most of us have to make some compromises to get a NATURAL TONAL BALANCE which is most important.
The distance u listen from should be reasonable too to hear a seamless sound from both the drivers. Generally a minimum of about 8 ft from a floor stander should suffice.
Play around and am sure u will be satisfied.
Rgds

 

[srramanujam]

A lot of tweaking yesterday evening.

I brought the speakers well away from the back wall (to get the listening position into open space, rather than in the tunnel portion of the L Shaped room). The centre of the drivers is also about two feet from the side wall.

Noticeable difference. The speakers vanish for most of the vocals. My little son came up and said this is very good music (percussion in carnatic), and so did my sis in law (seems like live music).

I can feel the depth of the stage. The vocals seem to be coming from far behind the speakers. Neil Diamond (Hello Again) filled the room like i havent heard before.

The testing continues. I am away for a couple of days, so will resume listening on Friday.

 

[thevortex]

I know of nobody with so much patience - having the speakers with you for almost 2 months and not using them! That is a compliment by the way.

Quick question - how big is your room? If you have pulled the speakers 8 feet from the rear wall do you not feel any lightness in the bass?

 

[srramanujam]

The room is 22 feet in length.

Maybe i am. I did feel that a deep strike in Coming to America (Neil Diamond) was missing. The Indian percussion was sounding well though.

 

[srramanujam]

Hi thevortex

In Chennai tomorrow. Not sure how i am placed, but would like to call and chat.

 

[thevortex]

Sure Ramanujam - I am also not sure how I am placed. But we can always talk.

 

[anm]

any updates? any more tweaks? how are the speakers sounding now and have you found the perfect placement?

 

[AMITNOIDA]

A lot of tweaking yesterday evening.

I brought the speakers well away from the back wall (to get the listening position into open space, rather than in the tunnel portion of the L Shaped room). The centre of the drivers is also about two feet from the side wall.

Noticeable difference. The speakers vanish for most of the vocals. My little son came up and said this is very good music (percussion in carnatic), and so did my sis in law (seems like live music).

I can feel the depth of the stage. The vocals seem to be coming from far behind the speakers. Neil Diamond (Hello Again) filled the room like i havent heard before.

The testing continues. I am away for a couple of days, so will resume listening on Friday.

Congrats Ram for your prized possession of MD-1. Your room length is quite good, but room width may be a bit challenging to provide 2-3 ft space from the side wall.

In my bed room with BE-718, the side space (about 3-4 ft) is not a problem, but I have to seriously compromise with the distance from the rear wall. I could provide only 1.5 ft space behind, which causes bass boom in some music. I have placed the speakers along the long wall. Placement along the short wall is not possible in my bedroom due to furniture layout and doors.

However, in the long run I will shift my music system to my drawing room once I purchase CDP / DAC and there the rear space problem will be resolved. BTW do you have any plan to upgrade the source?

Please post your more experience with speaker placement. One thing I must appreciate is your patience. Cheers.

 

[anm]

hey Amit Noida - how is your system coming through? Is your amp + speaker quest over? Pls share your experiences too, maybe in another thread

 

[cmsajith]

It seems the problem is with the speaker placement and the reflections from the walls. You are missing the horizontal soundstage is because of the early reflections from the side walls. If you are able to place some couch / a bed (preferrebly a cotton bed) next to the speakers on the side wall, you will see an improvement. The distance from the front wall is fine, try moving out the speakers into the room from the side walls.

Since you are following trial-and-error, try placing the speakers around 3ft from the side walls (if possible with the beds on the side walls) and listen at the sweet spot. If that works, you need to treat the side walls and you can try reducing the speaker distance from the side walls. Since the room is big (assuming your seating position is far from the front and rear walls) reducing the side reflections will be more effective than other walls. Also place one carpet on the floor b/n the couch and the speakers.