Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of action

[sam9s]

Coming straight to the point ..... I would like to have advice by my fellow member on the following situation ....

I bought Polk Audio Tsi300 from one of our member (not mentioning the name here) via "sale from owner" section. After few negotiations the amount was settled to 14.5K and I will have to personally pick the speakers from Gurgaon (I live in Ghaziabad both are around 100KM apart and around 2-3 hrs of heavy traffic driven drive). It was also via mutual trust and relation cleared that the spks are in mint, pristine condition and no physical or technical fault would be there.
I drove all the way to gurgaon (after two weeks as I simply did not have time, 9000 were immediately transferred) on Fri to pick the speakers, which were indeed kept with proper care. I will specially bring this in to notice that the spks were kept in very formidable condition. I listened to them for 15-20 minutes and also gave a casual a look to them ......all seemed perfect. Spks were packed properly, with their original thermacole and boxes, taped properly and I brought them to my home, safely.

Now at home when I opened them I was shocked and surprised to see that one of the driver was damaged. It was working okie as far as I know, but I am not that technical to figure out the difference if there was any ...... The crumbled driver cone is clearly visible and is very prominent ...... sharing the snap below for you all to have a look.

As you can see that the damaged driver is clearly visible. It is working no doubt but as I said I am not that technical ((in this department) that I can figure out it the driver is working to its full potential.
Now definitely I was dissatisfied and inquired about the situation, to which the seller responded he has no idea how that could have happened ..... to and fro conversation soon become a matter of who is the one to blame for this. Its impossible to get a dent like that after the speakers were packed. And obviously I did not check them their so closely to have brought this in notice then and there. (call this my stupidity or tendency to trust)

Now not disclosing what he offered or what I expect, I need help and suggestions form my fellow members here as to what needs to be done.

1. Return them with refund, then who's gonna pick them. Is it ethically my responsibility to drive all the way back again and return the spks to get my refund.

2. Get a new driver and ask for money

3. Get a new driver and share the the cost by half

4. Continue using the damaged driver but ask for a further slash on 14.5K price. If yes than how much.

5. Continue using the damaged driver (as its working, though what ever be the %age) and forget everything else, as its my fault that I did not check at the seller location.

Currently I have to be with option 5, but would like to know What my fellow members here would suggest.


Regards
sammy

 

[denom]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Hi Sam,

Couple of questions coming to my mind,

Why did you not inspect the speaker drivers without the grilles???

Followed by, did you see the speakers being packed in front of you? Like could have these been damaged whilst packing?

Last Question, is the grille cloth showing any signs of damage or refurbishment? Check both the grilles as they could have been switched to avoid suspicion. All this is just assuming that you got tricked, no offense to the seller.

Based on your replies maybe we can arrive at a conclusion & achieve a suitable & amicable remedy for your current predicament.

 

[sud98]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Sam, sad to hear of this.

However, since you have both spoken and it was primarily based on trust, I think you could assume that the owner never knew of this and live with the speakers.

I am not sure if you have much options.

 

[sam9s]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Hi Sam,

Couple of questions coming to my mind,

Why did you not inspect the speaker drivers without the grilles???

Followed by, did you see the speakers being packed in front of you? Like could have these been damaged whilst packing?

Last Question, is the grille cloth showing any signs of damage or refurbishment? Check both the grilles as they could have been switched to avoid suspicion. All this is just assuming that you got tricked, no offense to the seller.

Based on your replies maybe we can arrive at a conclusion & achieve a suitable & amicable remedy for your current predicament.

Denom thanks for the reply ...... well I did check the spk without the grill, but only one, that too very casually ...... infact even if I had checked the other spk without the grill, I am sure the way I checked I would have missed the crumble at his placed (the room was poorly lit actually)......

The spks were packed in front of me ...... and were carefully packed ...no issues on that part .....

The grill part, even I was surprised that the grill has absolute no wear n tear or damage what so ever and going by the level of crumble, it must have been done while the grill was off, or the grill cloth is been replaced with another originals ......

Assuming that the seller did not know about it, (which I find kinda hard to believe) logically speaking tell me what should be the decent outcome/solution, putting yourself in my shoes ....

 

[venkatcr]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Selling of any item by owners on HFV is purely on mutual trust. I would think it is the responsibility of the seller to be frank about the condition of what he is selling. IF he did not know about the condition, it is only fair that he bears the cost of repairs.

As a seller, I would be very careful in highlighting the condition of the product in great detail.

Cheers

 

[Bluu]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Assuming that the seller did not know about it, (which I find kinda hard to believe) logically speaking tell me what should be the decent outcome/solution, putting yourself in my shoes ....

I disagree with Venkat on this. If the seller was genuinely unaware of the problem, he should not be expected to pay for the repairs. Especially since it is entirely your responsibility to check any gear before you buy. However, you have already accepted that it was your mistake to not check thoroughly.

Putting myself in your shoes, I would speak with a cool mind with the seller to figure out what the best solution is. The ideal solution would be to share the cost of repairs. There is nothing to be gained by trying to blame one person or the other. On the other hand, if the damage is superficial and you believe talking to that person will have no consequence, you can live with your mistake.

I hope you two can find a mutually acceptable situation without souring the relationship.
Cheers!

 

[snorkel4u]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Agree with Bluu above. The Seller didn't prevent the buyer from opening the grills and checking the speakers out. I personally have bought a lot of gadgets and furniture etc used... And I am extremely cautious to make sure I have checked everything that I could.

Since its HFV, and both the parties are respectable and as mentioned no one would gain anything out of putting the blame on other... however, I think, logically, the seller should not be asked to pay any amount for the damage. After all, he lay the cards in front of you to check them out, in as much detail as you wished to...

And all such deals (and similar in CL, Quickr etc) are done on AS IS basis... once the deal is struck and you're out of sight it is not the seller responsibility.

In this particular case if the seller is ready to reduce some money (even for no apparent fault of his own) I think he is playing fair enough!

Rest you'll either have to manage changing the driver yourself, or live with it... if you don't see any apparent damage to it...

Lesson learnt for other future deals - Take as much time as you want to inspect before making the purchase.

 

[imgene]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

I agree with snorkel4u, bluu and sud98 completely. You had ample time to check the speakers, inspect and verify the product before taking the delivery. The seller should not be penalized here at all, his offering (if it is) to reduce the amount goes a long way to showcase his resolve to settle the matter.

 

[Deleted member 17547]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Agree with imgene, snorkel4u, bluu and sud98 .. Infact sam shud've inspected the stuff carefully coz he was buyin 2nd hand stuff.. u go to market n buy sumthing may be of 50Rs.. still u look at the manufacturing n expiry date.. rite.. so when u r spendin so much money then y didnt u look at the speakers.. if it was poorly lighted room u cud've asked him to arrange something to get a better look..

Sam has accepted that he casually looked at the stuff.. so who shud be responsible.. seller or buyer..?

better to get a way to resolve this thing mutually rather than blaming each other..

hope this gets over asap..

 

[sam9s]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

I am surprised to some of the input here .... Is there a reason to believe that the seller had no idea of the situation and the damaged product was not delivered deliberately. OK so I Missed checking the spks........ meaning there is no ethics, morality or conscious left in this world .... if you are duped, seller is not at all fault. If he played a trick, I am the one to be blamed ..........Not saying that he should bear the cost or even reduce it, but for gods sake atleast dont support the means ........ There should be some credibility in the members of HiFi and the deals made under the same roof ..........

 

[sud98]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Sam, the right thing would be for both to share the cost, but then life is not always fair, so would depend upon the seller.

 

[venkatcr]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Friends, let us understand one this. A For Sale By Owner in a forum like this has a completely different meaning and rules as compared to a general sales. Though it is easy to say 'Buyer Beware', please remember you continue to be a member here and will interact someway with the buyer. In addition, a large number of other members are also watching your behaviour.

That is the reason I said that, in addition to the buyer being aware, the seller must be doubly aware of what he is selling. Of the few items I sold on HFV, I have very carefully inspected the item, taken photographs, and showed everything to the buyer. I have purchased a few items without even meeting the seller, and the item has been exactly as mentioned by the seller.

In any case, I have written to both parties to settle this issue, as they say, 'out of court'. I am eager to close this thread quickly.

Cheers

 

[sam9s]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

I agree with venkat ..... a sale/purchase on the forum is not like the usual second hand market on the road side that it becomes absolute imperative for the buyer to check every single smallest detail ........

There should be some ground rules, morals ethics ... for a sale made on these forums ... I have sold couple of products .... . My playon HD went to Tamil Nadu. the buyer has absolute no way of knowing if I am selling my product without any defects ....... he didnt even made any call to talk to me and try to judge if I am a genuine seller. There was no way he could have recovered his money if I had sold him a defective product ..... ....... so does that mean I sell him one ........ with an excuse that I sent him a correct product, must have been damaged in transit, so not my fault .........

Anyway ......

... the seller agreed to give a discount 1000 bucks ... which I was not much happy about .... but never the less, under the circumstance .... I payed the rest .....
Its been a sour experience and even more sad to know most people support "the end justifies the means" .......and that ethics, morality and conscious has taken a back seat in our world ......

...

 

[vasishta.sushant]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Alright it has been quite some time now since I am watching this thread. Guess its time to reply.

For the uninitiated, I'd like to tell that the other person in the story is me. The speakers were sold by me.

Before I put my side of story, I'd like to tell how impressed I am by Mr. Samret, how he glibly laid down everything in original post and made me look like the bad man. How magnanimous he was when he didn't tell anyone my name but told that the speakers sold were this, price was this (I guess I am the only one who ever sold the tsi300 on this forum).

Leaving all that, lemme briefly rephrase everything. Sam was interested in my speakers. He lowballed couple of times but since the other options that I had wanted me to ship them, I opted sam, even when he was paying me 1000 bucks less. The only reason was to avoid the thing that has just happened. I wanted the buyer to fully inspect the stuff, be convinced with the purchase and only then go ahead.

The deal was finalized at 14500 and sam was to pickup. Sam told that he paid me 9K immediately. Correct. But then he wanted me to keep them with me for couple of weeks and he was to give the remaining money when he was to pick them up. Sam came, sam listened, sam inepected (casually as he'd put it), I packed them, I put them in his car and then sam tells me that he didn't bring cash and he'll deposit it later. Those 5500 he was to give me are still with him. (Sam were you not supposed to bring the cash on the day we met ? I wanted you to do online transfer and then you came up with some excuse and we agreed on cash. I even told that since I was leaving for my hometown that day, I won't withdraw cash and I'll use the cash which you were supposed to bring.)

Sam parted with the speakers, didn't give me the cash. At that time I didn't even had his name, only had his phone number. Didn't knew where he lives and what his other identity was but I still gave you stuff, even after you broker the terms. Did I retaliate ? Was it not the faith ? I realized that you clearly missed that point in your exhaustive post.


About the inspection thing, sam had his wife, his kid with him. They all three were sitting at less than 4ft from the speakers. I never stopped them from inspecting anything ? I clearly showed them how I babysit my stuff and how considerate I am towards my stuff. In fact I was scared by the way he picked the speaker and took them through the stairs. He actually put it on his shoulder and moved like a macho man. Anyway, thats not the point.

Before this thread was created, we already had a discussion amongst ourselves and we already had arrived at the solution of me reducing the price. The purpose of creating this thread seems little misleading since its more like maligning my image by insinuating me as the conman and him as the ignorant, gullible fellow who fell in the trap.

Sam always insisted that he'll pay the total money but he'll pay me 1000 bucks next month. Was it too big a amount to send that he'd have to wait for his salary to get credited ? Can I not hint that as a intended foul play ? Sam told that my kid could have done that. Well sam, do you not have a kid of rather same age ?

The worst thing was that fingers were pointed at my integrity. I might be new to this forum but I am an old school at some other forums. You people might wanna read the comments I've accrued over last few years:

Here: Vasishta.Sushant
and here: View Profile: TheZenMaestro

I am a person with conscience and the way things have been portrayed by sam is seriously not very appreciated.

I wanted the speakers back but sam was hell bent on getting the price reduced which eventually happened.

Sams last comment about morality and all is really pissing me off but considering he is like 6 years older to me, I wont say anything back and would like to show him how gentlemen should work.

Anyway, I am still ready to take my speakers back, in damaged condition, and ready to return his money, provided he delivers them back.

 

[prasun.gera]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Leaving morals and ethics aside, I agree with Vasistha on one point. When he was willing to take them back, Sam could've just returned them to save all the bother. I agree that it would've been a longish drive, but that's isn't much for the peace of mind that it would've given him.

 

[sam9s]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Before I put my side of story, I'd like to tell how impressed I am by Mr. Samret, how he glibly laid down everything in original post and made me look like the bad man. How magnanimous he was when he didn't tell anyone my name but told that the speakers sold were this, price was this (I guess I am the only one who ever sold the tsi300 on this forum).

I did make you look anything ... I merely posted my experience.............point out anything that does not hold any truth ..... as for not mentioning the name ...... magnanimous or not I never mention names in any of my review/feedback threads unless I am raving about some one. There is this 20 page thread I opened about the feedback of delhi dealers on HIFI and in no post did I mention any names of any dealer, so you are no exception .........

Leaving all that, lemme briefly rephrase everything. Sam was interested in my speakers. He lowballed couple of times but since the other options that I had wanted me to ship them, I opted sam, even when he was paying me 1000 bucks less. The only reason was to avoid the thing that has just happened. I wanted the buyer to fully inspect the stuff, be convinced with the purchase and only then go ahead.

I did not not lowball on anything. I offered 12, and we settled in 14.5. And even this price is on the higher side is what I have been told by many members here. How 12K becomes a low ball offer beats me ......

Yea and that buyer should fully inspect thing is totally out of line, you settled for me coz I was the first one who approached and you did not get any buyer even after reducing the price, including the shipping cost as well....... I was watching the thread all along and one can easily make out the way you reduced price after every couple of days that you werent getting any buyer .....

The deal was finalized at 14500 and sam was to pickup. Sam told that he paid me 9K immediately. Correct. But then he wanted me to keep them with me for couple of weeks and he was to give the remaining money when he was to pick them up. Sam came, sam listened, sam inepected (casually as he'd put it), I packed them, I put them in his car and then sam tells me that he didn't bring cash and he'll deposit it later. Those 5500 he was to give me are still with him. (Sam were you not supposed to bring the cash on the day we met ? I wanted you to do online transfer and then you came up with some excuse and we agreed on cash. I even told that since I was leaving for my hometown that day, I won't withdraw cash and I'll use the cash which you were supposed to bring.)

Whats the point of this story, trying to cover up that you sold me damaged drivers ...... lolzzz I did not bring cash coz YOU told me not to and insisted that they be transferred (it was not my excuse but yours that you tend to spend the cash so let it be transferred) ...... damm man you are now lying on the face....... and NO the rest amount has already been transferred before this post was made ......

Sam parted with the speakers, didn't give me the cash. At that time I didn't even had his name, only had his phone number. Didn't knew where he lives and what his other identity was but I still gave you stuff, even after you broker the terms. Did I retaliate ? Was it not the faith ? I realized that you clearly missed that point in your exhaustive post.

No I did not miss any point,. but the fact that also can not be neglected is that you DID give me damaged drivers ( and its impossible to get that kind of damage in 2 hrs of drive from your house to mine with spks packed and taped properly in the box securely placed at the back seat of my car)

But you simply do not want to accept this fact ........ what kind of faith are you talking about here ....

About the inspection thing, sam had his wife, his kid with him. They all three were sitting at less than 4ft from the speakers. I never stopped them from inspecting anything ? I clearly showed them how I babysit my stuff and how considerate I am towards my stuff. In fact I was scared by the way he picked the speaker and took them through the stairs. He actually put it on his shoulder and moved like a macho man. Anyway, thats not the point.

lol.... yea I am not sure what you are trying to put here ....... okie you did not stop me to check the speakers, okie I did not check the speakers ...... then what does that mean ...... you sell me a damage driver ....?????

Before this thread was created, we already had a discussion amongst ourselves and we already had arrived at the solution of me reducing the price. The purpose of creating this thread seems little misleading since its more like maligning my image by insinuating me as the conman and him as the ignorant, gullible fellow who fell in the trap.

Reducing the price to what 1000 bucks ...... great, thats such a relief ..... I have a damaged driver for a 20K pair spk and still end up paying 13.5 .....???????? well thanks but no thanks .....
And the purpose of this thread is provide a proper feedback, of a member and an experience. I may or may not be a gullible fellow but the purpose of this thread would be for my fellow member to take a lesson to never trust anyone on this fourms so easily.......I guess....... and check and recheck the stuff you buy in a similar manner we do on a road side second hand shop ..... there is actually no difference between some of the members here and the chap sitting in a market to sell the second hand hardware .......

Sam always insisted that he'll pay the total money but he'll pay me 1000 bucks next month. Was it too big a amount to send that he'd have to wait for his salary to get credited ? Can I not hint that as a intended foul play ? Sam told that my kid could have done that. Well sam, do you not have a kid of rather same age ?[

Foul play for 1000 bucks yea ..... when I agreed to pay 13.5 you said no you want 14.5 ..... I laid out my limitation then and there, if you want 14.5 you have to wait for that 1000 bucks for the end of the month....it was on your agreement that I went ahead with the deal ......

The worst thing was that fingers were pointed at my integrity. I might be new to this forum but I am an old school at some other forums.
I am a person with conscience and the way things have been portrayed by sam is seriously not very appreciated.

You sold me a damaged driver, dont want to share the cost neither want to lessen the amount..... and still talk about integrity ...... a person with a conscious is a person who has the will to compromise and sometimes even bore the blunt ....... I merely stated my experience ..... its as simple as that.

I wanted the speakers back but sam was hell bent on getting the price reduced which eventually happened.

No I was not hell bent on reducing the price....... I said either reduce the price or yes you can take the speakers back .... why on mother earth should I drive all the way back and return the speakers. It should be your responsibility to come and get them .............

Sams last comment about morality and all is really pissing me off but considering he is like 6 years older to me, I wont say anything back and would like to show him how gentlemen should work.

As if there is any things left to say ....

 

[sam9s]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Leaving morals and ethics aside, I agree with Vasistha on one point. When he was willing to take them back, Sam could've just returned them to save all the bother. I agree that it would've been a longish drive, but that's isn't much for the peace of mind that it would've given him.

Its not a longish drive my friend. its from one earth corner to another ....... and I seriously did not have time and effort to drive all the way back for something which I didnt even do .... Heck even for getting the spks I took 2 weeks ...... I told him how busy I was/am these days. Infact even after paying 9000 I was not sure when I could pick them up ...... coz of this reason I told him that I will pay the full amount, but just might not be able to pick them this month at all ........ it was him who was so eager for me to pick them .... I dont know why ...... every couple of hours I was getting a msg to try my best to pick them today, tom, week end .... and every time I had to reply him the same that its impossible for me to come to gurgaon .... I am working 6 days a week and I am running very very very very busy .........

Heck even when I finally went to him, I started at 6 (fri from office) ... begging my boss to leave me early.... reached at his place at 8:30 ..!!!! so could not come back ..... called and requested my friend there to let me stay for the night...... and went back the other day (sat) and attended the office as well ....???

Itseasier said than done that I should have taken the spks back .....

 

[prasun.gera]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

No I was not hell bent on reducing the price....... I said either reduce the price or yes you can take the speakers back .... why on mother earth should I drive all the way back and return the speakers. It should be your responsibility to come and get them .............

Ok, the longish drive is an inordinately long drive. However, it would be unfair to expect any seller to pick up stuff sold by him. And this holds true everywhere. Even if you buy something from a store/amazon/ebay etc., return shipping is always the buyer's responsibility. And that is the only way to ensure that buyers don't misuse the privilege of returning a product for a refund. Moreover, the other reason you feel that it was his responsibility to pick 'em up is that you feel certain that he sold you damaged drivers intentionally. While he might or might not have been responsible for the damage, it is certainly possible that he wasn't 'aware' of it. I know that you feel that that is a long shot, but keeping all the uncertainties and grey areas in mind, returning them would still have been the best solution. In fact it still is.

 

[venkatcr]

Re: Bought floorstands from HiFi member, Damaged Driver, Suggest next course of actio

Sam and Vasishtha have come to an agreements and this discussion is closed. I thank Vasishtha and Sam for being patient. Good going guys.

Cheers