Many SENIORS are still buying FS. Are they not convinced a good BS+SUB is a better choice ???

[Naveenbnc]

Dear all,

There are so any seniors in this forum and they are into audio for a couple of decades. So they might have experienced a lot of combinations of speakers and amps.

Now those experienced seniors are still looking to buy floor standers.

So I'm just wondering, what is it they like in FS as compared to BS+Sub combo??

(Ofcourse they will definitely use a sub along with FS)

The point im trying to understand is,......extra BASS is the only advantage of FS over BS???

Or is there any better sound signature, better dynamics etc associated with FS??

Can some one throw some light please...

Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[Naveenbnc]

Please ignore the issues like aesthetics, space constraints, price etc. I'm eager to know only about SQ for music and movies.

And by the way, .....if crossover is set in avr, it diverts low frequency to sub, whether we use fs or bs.

 

[reachkalyan.kr]

Imo.

Better dynamics and more of front stage performance.

Since i tried both side by side comparison,

Hope i am eligible to reply even thou m not that senior.

 

[sidvee]

IMO for movie setups (that include subs and mains crossed over at 80hz) a FS is not required as many BS designs will easily have decent spl at 60 hz (say - 3db). However for stereo listening without a sub, a FS may be better (depending on room size). However it is a big MAY, because in many instances the floor stander will overload the room at mid bass frequencies (boominess) which will make them worse than book shelves by masking the all important mid range frequencies. Getting proper low to mid bass from a room without a subwoofer is a tricky affair and the biggest issue of 99% untreated rooms.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Kannan]

General thumb rule is FS will have that much more presence in the lows, but well integrated bookshelves with sub will produce the full octaves.

However in real world there are many factors like room size, response and allied equipment to name a few.

 

[Naveenbnc]

Imo.

Better dynamics and more of front stage performance.

Since i tried both side by side comparison,

Hope i am eligible to reply even thou m not that senior.

Of course kalyan you are !!!!
I used the word seniors because they might have gone through many cycles of upgrades. Thanks a lot for inputs.

 

[Ravindra Desai]

Dear all,

There are so any seniors in this forum and they are into audio for a couple of decades. So they might have experienced a lot of combinations of speakers and amps.

Now those experienced seniors are still looking to buy floor standers.

So I'm just wondering, what is it they like in FS as compared to BS+Sub combo??

(Ofcourse they will definitely use a sub along with FS)

The point im trying to understand is,......extra BASS is the only advantage of FS over BS???

Or is there any better sound signature, better dynamics etc associated with FS??

Can some one throw some light please...

Thanks a lot in advance.

Naveen,

@Kannan used the key words that summaries things nicely in post # 5: 'more presence in the lows' and 'well integrated'

When you buy BS you are buying BS. They were designed to work as BS. The designer has no idea if you are going to add a sub on your own and therefore the details associated with the integration are left to the end user.
Same applies to FS.

If you have space and $$ why settle for a BS?
But even if you have $$ and no space, you have no choice but to look for good BS.

Remember, in audio, 'Adding' does not necessarily result in 'addition'
Also remember, the missing parts in one system may not be as disruptive than annoying excess in the other.

I would like to add that a 'senior' knows the type of music he listens to. Or rather has narrowed down to the type of music he likes.
This helps him make his choice.

So, don't waste your time findings trends or rules because there are none in audio.

Regards,

Ravindra.

 

[blackscorpio]

in 2.1, should the FS be running full range or crossed over HF? I mean even if the FS can go low upto 40hz

TIA

 

[Naveenbnc]

Hi Sidvee, Kannam, and Ravindra,

I know fs vs bs is a well debated topic already. I'm just trying to grasp something that didn't get yet. Thank you very much for your inputs. And Ravindra, thank you so much for the hint that we should have clarity on what we need to listen and then arrange suitable gear.

 

[Naveenbnc]

in 2.1, should the FS be running full range or crossed over HF? I mean even if the FS can go low upto 40hz

TIA

We keep switching between 2.1 and 7.1 or 5.1 very often with a remote. Once we do the audysse or ypao kind of settings, it is practically not feasible to go into the settings and change crossover every time. So not sure how to do this ...may be we need one more key on the remote fir crossover on and off. But if audio companies didn't do it....may be there is a reason... I don't kniw

 

[blackscorpio]

I guessed the subject is more relevant in a stereo setup than to multi use HT setup.

As you said, its very inconvenient in HT setup to fiddle with settings every time you want to use the setup.

 

[sud98]

1. Good quality audio subs are expensive.
2. Adding a 2.2 (2 bookshelves plus 2 subs) is significantly more expensive
3. Bookshelves needs quality stands which also add to the cost
4. Lastly, the two have to be well integrated

So FS is a simpler and cheaper option. BS + Sub is the better option provided you have the money for it.

The expensive ones (Meridian/Rethm) do have this kind of setup but for budgets in the less than 1 lakh range its hard to get bookshelf plus stands plus subs to match what you can get in a FS.

 

[Nikhil]

Lot's of knowledge shared already but here is my 0.02

The main attraction for FS speakers is the idea of running "full range"
Usually this means covering the low end of the freq spectrum as already has been mentioned.
However, it has to be said that not all FS designs are full range.

In fact rarely do most FS designs go below 35Hz - 40Hz
Below 30Hz to 15Hz is true sub woofer territory and not many subs do it well.
Even then integrating a sub with the main speakers is a challenge.
It is for this reason mainly that you find many just opting out of using a sub.

So to answer the OP - if by "seniors" you mean seasoned audio enthusiasts;
then basically the complexity of sub integration is one reason why they do not use subs.
For the same reason, many also do not use FS due to bass bloat from the room conditions.

In the end the biggest factor in choosing a speaker design is the room.
If you have a large room which needs to be loaded properly then a FS design will work
If you have a smaller room with room modes then a bookshelf/standmount generally works better.
Technically adding sub(s) works for both FS and BS designs but care needs to be taken with sub integration.
Usually adding more than one sub is better than using just one sub.
.

 

[Naveenbnc]

Thank you so much Nikhil, and also everyone in this thread. !!!! Surely this info helped me a lot and it helps others too... !!!

 

[Naveenbnc]

With a very little personal experience i had till now, there is a very clear difference in the "sound signature" (if can use this word) of the bass produced by my earlier taga towers, and my 12inch sub, and a 6inch sub I modified yesterday. The bass produced by each of these is distinct and unique.

So now I started getting the point, seamless integration is not an easy task.

 

[flat_listener]

Hi Sidvee, Kannam, and Ravindra,

I know fs vs bs is a well debated topic already.

Like its been said, there are a thousand answers to your question with none of them being right or wrong.

It's all very subjective, and down to individual requirements...
Buy the speakers that sound best with your gear in your listening environment, be it FS or BS. (the trickiest task)

Confession: I like quite simple 2-way enclosures - which offer better bass extension than bookshelves, and have a coherency that often lacks in multi-woofer configuration. My favorite budget minded speakers are basically "big box, 6.5" woofer, tweeter, a two element crossover!

In this thread, are we discussing similarities between bookshelves and floor standers.... or debating on one vs the other?

 

[efernand1]

Hi

Here is my 2 cents on BS and Sub.

I use a pair of BOSE 301 series III which is approximately 18 years - 20 years old......these are made in Mexico and work very well with My SR series Marantz. (The Bose what you get nowadays is no where close to these babies).

Secondly as the 301s cant really go low, I use a BIC America PL 200 sub which supposedly can go as low as 24hz...(no device to measure)...end of the day it sounds very pleasing to my ears and not boomy or muddy.

Now the AVR settings, kept the fronts at 60hz (being 8 inch drivers i know i can push to lower but these are conservative settings).

Bass Management is kept as LFE & MAIN.

LFE freq is set at 110hz........(practise makes perfect...have been experimenting from 80hz cutoff). The whole idea is to ensure that there is some overlap between the BS and Sub and no freq are lost!

Music sounds great on STEREO mode....2.1 Bass as we all know in the music industry is mono and thats what live shows typically do so no love lost there....i get good mid bass and highs from the Bose 301s ...integration is well and i dont keep fiddling with settings...

Movies it is like a proper theatre experience. I dont have a treated room...this is my small living room space where the system is set!

Most important part according to me is the quality of speaker cables, your source and quality of content used for playback...if all this is in order....nothing will go wrong.

I dont have anything against FS but honestly dont have the space. if i did, yes would get a decent pair which are 3 way so there is articulated balanced sound outputted from them. The type of drivers (cone material) also matter.

 

[Naveenbnc]

@flat_listener..

2-way enclosures means separate chamber for tweeter and bass drier i guess.
I think many diy people prefer to build a big box with a tweeter and a single bass driver.
May be the bigger enclosure does the trick.

Just asking out of curiosity, lets say you have a bookshelf from a good brand.
If you take the tweeter and bass driver from it and place them in a well designed Big Box (enclosure)
Will it sound better? (i know companies do a lot of refinement with so many tests etc) Deviating from main topic though...

 

[Naveenbnc]

Hi

Here is my 2 cents on BS and Sub.

I use a pair of BOSE 301 series III which is approximately 18 years - 20 years old......these are made in Mexico and work very well with My SR series Marantz. (The Bose what you get nowadays is no where close to these babies).

Secondly as the 301s cant really go low, I use a BIC America PL 200 sub which supposedly can go as low as 24hz...(no device to measure)...end of the day it sounds very pleasing to my ears and not boomy or muddy.

Now the AVR settings, kept the fronts at 60hz (being 8 inch drivers i know i can push to lower but these are conservative settings).

Bass Management is kept as LFE & MAIN.

LFE freq is set at 110hz........(practise makes perfect...have been experimenting from 80hz cutoff). The whole idea is to ensure that there is some overlap between the BS and Sub and no freq are lost!

Music sounds great on STEREO mode....2.1 Bass as we all know in the music industry is mono and thats what live shows typically do so no love lost there....i get good mid bass and highs from the Bose 301s ...integration is well and i dont keep fiddling with settings...

Movies it is like a proper theatre experience. I dont have a treated room...this is my small living room space where the system is set!

Most important part according to me is the quality of speaker cables, your source and quality of content used for playback...if all this is in order....nothing will go wrong.

I dont have anything against FS but honestly dont have the space. if i did, yes would get a decent pair which are 3 way so there is articulated balanced sound outputted from them. The type of drivers (cone material) also matter.

thanks a lot for sharing ur experience. 20 year old speakers are still going good !!!

 

[danielnaveen2003]

@flat_listener..

2-way enclosures means separate chamber for tweeter and bass drier i guess.
I think many diy people prefer to build a big box with a tweeter and a single bass driver.
May be the bigger enclosure does the trick.

Dome tweeters don't need a separate enclosure their backs are sealed they occupy the same space as the midbass in a two way enclosure, vintage cone tweeters will do better isolated from the back wave of the woofer however.

Just asking out of curiosity, lets say you have a bookshelf from a good brand.
If you take the tweeter and bass driver from it and place them in a well designed Big Box (enclosure)
Will it sound better? (i know companies do a lot of refinement with so many tests etc) Deviating from main topic though...

Sure, I took drivers from a entry level book shelf and built a TL and time aligned the tweeter, it sounded better. But then what is better?? The bass from the TL was tight while in the bookshelf it was relatively loose (its presence was felt more for a average listener) but the TL was deeper and not immediately noticeable. Bottom line each manufacturer selects a target audience and builds the speaker to their taste. Quick example the Vifa ring radiator tweeters, they cost 2000 - 6000 bucks depending on the version but they were used in Sonus faber speakers costing several thousands of dollars, they were also sold as car tweeters by alpine for about 100 dollars. The enclosure and more importantly the cross over network decides how they sound in each implementation and each sound siganture appeals to a certain target audience and each target audience is willing to pay different prices and thats how prices are set.