Merlin TSM MME & Naim Nait5i

[denom]

Was another fun filled evening spent listening to Merlin TMM MME speakers for the first time at FM mpws place.

The speakers in the spotlight were brought by another FM shahrukh for pairing them with mpws naim nait 5i Amp.

Pics of the Set-up:

Partnering Equipment & Cabling Consisted of:

Artora CDP with power cord
Technics SL23 belt drive TT with Denon DL103 cart ( counterweight set at 2.46 gm )
Lehmann Audio SE2 with power supply - phono pre

Naim Nait 5i Integrated Amp with Naim Power Cord

Merlin TSM MME
Speaker Stands - Epos ST12i type
NAC A5 Speaker Cables Factory terminated with Naim Connectors at Amp end & Banana Plugs at Speaker end
Supra (forget the model) Speaker cables terminated with supra Banana Plugs at 1 end & Spades at the other.

Music played :

Eplosions in the Sky - CD and Vinyl
U2 - The best of - vinyl
Rainbow - best of Ritchie Blackmore - CD
Mark Knopfler - The ragpickers dream - CD
Norah Jones - Come away with me CD
Fleetwood Mac - Greatest hits - CD
Hindi vinyls - 3 of them (few songs from each album) [mpw, pls fill in the names of the albums / tks]

Couple of Observations:

1)The merlin tsm mme are a discontinued model & so the context of the review must keep that in mind. Since, we do not have the option of listening to the current merlin tsm mmm & mxm, we have to reply on the reviews available online.

2)The speakers were kept in their carton for nearly 5 months and yesterday - they played - so initially the sound did appear sluggish and we did play some low intensity music for about 10 min to let the speaker free itself a bit. But still the sound was sluggish - and a change to the naim nac a5 solved that to a large degree.

3)The Open ended stands that are used by mpw for his epos could be the wrong ones to use for the merlins but since there were no other stands available, we had no choice.

4)Initially we started without the RC /Zobel network connected to the merlins and then quickly realized the need for the RC network & connected the same to the cardas terminals of the speaker. Quite a pain to do if your speaker cables are not terminated with spades! We had the instruction leaflet with us & it clearly stated that one must first connect the speaker cable & then attach the zobel network.

5)The sound drastically changed for the better as we switched the speaker cables from Supra to NAC A5. The timing & pace improvements were the key changes that we noticed.

6)Yes - the naim nac a5 is a good cable to match with the naim amp but the degree to which the merlin showed the difference in the speaker cable change was note able! :thumbsup: to NAC A5

7)Due to the logistics involved, fiddling with the Zobel Network, speaker cable changes & such, the listening session was very much delayed/curtailed & in the end we hardly got any time to listen to a variety of music as desired.


My view on the Merlin TMM MME:

A well constructed speaker having a classic studio monitor look & feel. It is a decent performer across the frequency range. The highs can get a little too hot for ones comfort but then this can be controlled to a certain extent by utilizing speaker cables with appropriate properties to tweak to ones liking. Very acceptable lows keeping the cab(sealed) & mid bass woofer size in mind.
Mids are also certainly well fleshed & presented.
I personally felt that the Merlins required an amp with more drive to make them shine to their capabilities. A tube amp with about 35-40 watts should be a very good bet for them. Wish shahrukh finds the right amp to partner the merlin's.

Over to mpw & shahrukh for their views.

 

[keith_correa]

See this for a review done for the Merlins by the TNT audio folks back in 2005.

Merlin TSM - MM - bookshelf monitor speakers [English]

 

[mpw]

for me - saturday evening was the culmination of a long wait to hear the Merlin.

The one we heard are the MMe model which is now discontinued and the current version is the MMM.

One more point of note is that the speakers were being played after spending significant time in the carton and therefore may require some more hours on them.

For me - i liked the transparency - the way it showed up the chain - good or bad. That means that the speaker is scalable - it will perform even better with better components. Just like a high performance sports person.

I thought the vinyls we played - came thru rather well as also when we optimised position. I happened to be in another room and i remember thinking - these sound nice.

I thought it needed the conventional sturdy stands rather than the Epos ST12i type stands which i use currently.

You know - all 4 of us had differing opinions on it and that goes to show what drives the audio business !!

:lol:

Denom perceived it was not too much a jump from the Epos M12i while i thought the resolution and the way it showed up the chain was admirable.

lets not make any bones about it - i am trying out many speakers as part of my upgrade plan and one of the important things is transparency and scalability.

Ofcourse, its not that only merlin TSM has these ( IMO ) and it will be interesting to hear 1 or 2 more options in the coming weeks.

Merlin - as a brand - is not too well known here and one of the things to like about them is that they have only 2 models - one a standmount and another a floorstander and they continuously refine these since many years to reach where they are today. They dont create a new model every year like cars !!

One of the FM felt - the imaging was not upto the mark and maybe the naim nait 5i needed to go batter ( in terms of having 10 more watts to drive the merlin TSM ).

I thought it was quite OK as the merlin TSM are not known to be very loud speakers - not that they cant go loud.

mpw

 

[Shahrukh]

Yeah! Saturday was a fun evening. Although I do wish, as the posts above me have mentioned, that we had more time to listen seriously.

I'll try to avoid gloating about my own speaker here, but must mention a couple of points.

1. The room. MPW has a lovely, large living room which also doubles up as his listening area. The Merlins, while heftier then your average standmount speaker is built to play in small to medium rooms. This was something that struck me very early on in the session. More power is needed for it to really "sing" in a space as this.

2. These black buggers are transparent. And how. While we started using a speaker cable highly recommended for the speaker by the designer himself, they really shone when we changed the loudspeaker cable to Naim. Lesson learnt: When using Naim, use Naim cables as much as possible throughout your chain.

3. Imaging. I've heard these speakers do better. Then again, one has to keep in mind the room, the power fed to them and the electronics used. All of the highest pedigree, no doubt, but different to what I'm used to.

4. A word on the highs. I'd disagree that they were "hot". Rather, I thought they were a tad mellow, when compared to another speaker we heard.

5. IMO, this speaker needs to be paired with a tube amp. Push pull, 35W+. Ideally using EL34 tubes. (I'm on the lookout for a good integrated with these specs, if you know of one available, tell me.)

And finally, I must thank mpw and his lovely family for having us over and letting us hijack their living room for so long. It was their warmth and graciousness that made the evening a fun one.

 

[arj]

You Mumbai guys seem to be having Fun..this is really great, especially since you bother to post this and share the experience !

....

A well constructed speaker having a classic studio monitor look & feel. It is a decent performer across the frequency range. The highs can get a little too hot for ones comfort but then this can be controlled to a certain extent by utilizing speaker cables with appropriate properties to tweak to ones liking. Very acceptable lows keeping the cab(sealed) & mid bass woofer size in mind.
Mids are also certainly well fleshed & presented.
I personally felt that the Merlins required an amp with more drive to make them shine to their capabilities. A tube amp with about 35-40 watts should be a very good bet for them. Wish Shahrukh finds the right amp to partner the Merlin's.

Over to mpw & shahrukh for their views.

I believe the reason for the underlined are the following
1. Merlins have to be in stands with the ear height between the tweeter and the Woofer (ie where they meet) . At the 10 degree toe in with this setup they are phase and time aligned Else they can get hot/sharp. Also better to seat 8-9 feet away from the speaker
2. Naim is not the amp for merlins as this is an amp used to shake out the life in Polite British speakers not revealing ones with Morel based drivers
Any Class A SS amp or a tube Push pull with 30W is enough to get this to work well in most rooms, but larger rooms will need more power
3. Denom as you have rightly mentioned these are the wrong stands and the imaging may not be right with this and the bass not as tight/full as it should be. A solid single pillar, 28" (preferably wood stand) with the speakers blu tacked onto them make a world of difference. these are very very revealing speakers and changes in cables/recording all come up. This is what makes them a double edged as set them wrong and they hurt you i personally feel they can be used with Amps in the 8K usd range as have been used in most shows by Bobby

....

The one we heard are the MMe model which is now discontinued and the current version is the MMM.

One more point of note is that the speakers were being played after spending significant time in the carton and therefore may require some more hours on them.

For me - i liked the transparency - the way it showed up the chain - good or bad. That means that the speaker is scalable - it will perform even better with better components. Just like a high performance sports person.

I thought the vinyls we played - came thru rather well as also when we optimised position. I happened to be in another room and i remember thinking - these sound nice.

I thought it needed the conventional sturdy stands rather than the Epos ST12i type stands which i use currently.

You know - all 4 of us had differing opinions on it and that goes to show what drives the audio business !!

:lol:

Denom perceived it was not too much a jump from the Epos M12i while i thought the resolution and the way it showed up the chain was admirable.

lets not make any bones about it - i am trying out many speakers as part of my upgrade plan and one of the important things is transparency and scalability.

....

One of the FM felt - the imaging was not upto the mark and maybe the naim nait 5i needed to go batter ( in terms of having 10 more watts to drive the merlin TSM ).

I thought it was quite OK as the merlin TSM are not known to be very loud speakers - not that they cant go loud.

mpw

If you see the speakers, the design is exactly the same since ages. what has been tweaked recently are materials, components and its damping. ..and i believe you can always upgrade from any to the latest pretty easily. as bobby is willing to send out the upgraded parts.

In my experience these are Imaging freaks and do even better than my Tannoys. this may be due to needing a Break in ? not sure

I could not agree with you more on the bold its one of the most Value of money buys in this segment- a powerful medium which needs to be managed well.
...and when they go loud you will not realise they have gone loud untill the police arrive hyeah:.

....
2. These black buggers are transparent. And how. While we started using a speaker cable highly recommended for the speaker by the designer himself, they really shone when we changed the loudspeaker cable to Naim. Lesson learnt: When using Naim, use Naim cables as much as possible throughout your chain.

3. Imaging. I've heard these speakers do better. Then again, one has to keep in mind the room, the power fed to them and the electronics used. All of the highest pedigree, no doubt, but different to what I'm used to.

4. A word on the highs. I'd disagree that they were "hot". Rather, I thought they were a tad mellow, when compared to another speaker we heard.
...

The Merlins are internally wired with Cardas, and recommended ones are also Cardas. Another cable which do great with them are Yamamuras, which are not easy to find.

BTW Naim cables, I believe ,are loaded in such a way as to not need external zobel networks (which the Naim amps do not have) so with Naim amps+Cables you may not need the external Zobels is my reading.

 

[square_wave]

Hey mpw,

I have listened to these speakers many times at Arjs place. Also have fair amount of experience with the Epos with another friend of mine.

The Merlins are in a different league. Do consider them ---- Tweak them to its fullest and also consider using them with associated ( right ) gear which it deserves. Do not arrive at any conclusions at this point. Naim and Merlins do not go together.

Merlins love tubes but the right kind. Arj is the resident expert on Merlins so you should be talking to him.

 

[mpw]

arj,

the new MMM have the Renaissance M30.5 tweeter - Merlin says this model is way more suitable for SS amps. I dont know if the basic character will change. I suppose it should since the tweeter handles most of the frequencies.

The TSM spec sheet shows the max amp power ( SS ) to be at 50 W at 8 ohm.

Funnily - the Merlin did play loud at 11 o clock and i did not sense it lacking in volume.

Probably what Denom is referring to is the resolution which an amp delivering more and cleaner power could have delivered. I agree there.

I wonder what other SS amp ( no tubes - merlin recommends the ARS Sonum .. that a 30W tube amp i think ) could be looked at apart from the usual suspects.

How about hybrid amps ? have you tried them with the MMe's when they were with you ?

rgds,
mpw

 

[mpw]

Hey mpw,


The Merlins are in a different league.

=====================================

thanks square wave,

ask shahrukh.. i have been after him for months now to get the Merlins over to my place :lol:

Naim - Merlin - not matching - i dont know - i think there are better amps out there ( if you are reading my terminology ) but for the moment the Naim nait 5i is set with me for atleast another year.

What i liked about the Merlins is its ability to reflect and therefore its scalability. Tomorrow - if i change thr amp - i know i need not have a speaker change too.

The stands played their part - in not being the best for the Merlin.

Reg Epos M12i - look - the price range is totally different and so there is no comparo.

Out on its own - i would be happy with the M12i - i am certain - at that price range - there is nothing else.

yes - arj - is being kept busy by me thru PM's !!

he has been most kind enough with his time now and in the past as well.

mpw

 

[arj]

arj,

the new MMM have the Renaissance M30.5 tweeter - Merlin says this model is way more suitable for SS amps. I dont know if the basic character will change. I suppose it should since the tweeter handles most of the frequencies.

The TSM spec sheet shows the max amp power ( SS ) to be at 50 W at 8 ohm.

Funnily - the Merlin did play loud at 11 o clock and i did not sense it lacking in volume.

Probably what Denom is referring to is the resolution which an amp delivering more and cleaner power could have delivered. I agree there.

I wonder what other SS amp ( no tubes - merlin recommends the ARS Sonum .. that a 30W tube amp i think ) could be looked at apart from the usual suspects.

How about hybrid amps ? have you tried them with the MMe's when they were with you ?

rgds,
mpw

This is a tweaked version of the morel MDT30 (Merlins used this till the MM as is and MMe onwards used the one specially tweaked by Renaissance audio, maybe its further tweaked in the MMM)
Being a sealed box speaker it has a 10dB point at below 35 Hz and thats what you need the extra power for ! And the bass response really improves with power. such that for most tracks i used to switch off the subs ( used to run Twin RELs with merlins)
Since the MMe you can use both SS and Tubes since they were tweaked from standard Morels just for that.

I would prefer pure Class A amps or AB biased high in SS - those amps which are known to have a high current capacity even at lower power (thats why tubes go well) is what will go well

The Ars Sonum is really expensive espcially if you import them. I had got in touch with the Spanish mfg to check if i could get a good deal but did not work out. i would Highly recommend most Push Pull tubes with 40W as a good match

SS needs to be matched well. I have tried them with Sugdens and they were pretty good but the lebens gave them a different character altogether. I had tried the AP Pre/power as well with them and the resolution was far better but the tonal character went a bit lean and my preference is for it be be more fuller

If starting afresh I would agree with the above observations and aim for around 40-50W of power, tube or otherwise which is smooth especially at high frequencies (not rolled off). Since different ears have different perceptions of Bright sound its very difficult to advise on that !. My guess is Red Wine Audio would also be a great match.

I would think Hybrid amps would do well with it although my preference of a hybrid would be a SS pre and a tube power stage i think unison research used to have those on the past.

Check this thread out . should find pointers there

Merlin Threads in Agon do have a tendency to get dirty as Bobby is extra righteous about defending his speakers and there are others who have abone to pick with him as well ..but he is very emotionally attached to them as they are a product of love and he is very quick with any help 1:1

 

[arj]

arj,
..
Probably what Denom is referring to is the resolution which an amp delivering more and cleaner power could have delivered. I agree there.
..

Power rating specs are pretty overrated i wold say the ability to instantaneously deliver high current at lower volumes is also very imp. Most amps start do that only at higher power..and hence Class A amps. Tubes do that well

Check this review out.. this is a good one of the MMe

Newer production offers a re-milled tweeter face plate that reduces diffraction while increasing the size of the dome's opening to make the device sound more open and extended. The body of the tweeter is no longer a Morel mdt 30 but a hand made version made by Renaissance Audio. It is now called the Rennaissance mst 30.5.

It is my feeling that use of a copper litz speaker cable would improve the hf extension and micro definition. This is the type of cable I used in the development of the tsm.

 

[mpw]

Merlin Threads in Agon do have a tendency to get dirty as Bobby is extra righteous about defending his speakers and there are others who have abone to pick with him as well ..but he is very emotionally attached to them as they are a product of love and he is very quick with any help 1:1

===================================

neo sent me the link yesterday and i was reading and laughing.. i thought ours was the only forum with fights , stunts and all !! :lol:

mpw

 

[arj]

===================================

neo sent me the link yesterday and i was reading and laughing.. i thought ours was the only forum with fights , stunts and all !! :lol:

mpw

Ours is a domesticated/polite cow despite the horns

 

[square_wave]

Naim - Merlin - not matching - i dont know - i think there are better amps out there ( if you are reading my terminology ) but for the moment the Naim nait 5i is set with me for atleast another year.

Hey mpw,

It is not about the better amp it is more about the right synergy.

With the right synergy - it will work overtime to deliver all the goods to you so that the money you spend on the amplifier is justified.

 

[vijwilso]

Mahesh

Where is your Naim CDP ?