Music Listening- Please Recommend

[rajivaryan1984]

Hi Gurus,
I currently own
Pioneer BDP 180
Dali zensor 7 (front)
Dali zensor 1 (Surround)
Samsung UHD 55 Inches
Denon X2200
Room size is 12x30
type of music English, Bollywood, retro and ghazals
Source cd/usb/flac/mp3

When it comes to movies and games I am really impressed and satisfied with the performance but when it comes to music I really feel something is missing. I am looking for that crystal clear music like when you hear a live performance, the clarity you get these days from your car music system or the clarity you get from the JBL Portable Bluetooth Large Speakers.
I have tried using Modi Schmitt DAC but not got that clarity. I use lot of original audio CDs for music.
Please advise what change I can make to improve my music and get what I am expecting. Wil adding a separate Marantz CD Player might solve my problem. Please suggest some ideas

 

[sidvee]

Please do not post multiple queries in different sections with the same question. All your other posts have been deleted.
MODERATOR

 

[guddu478]

Hi Gurus,
I currently own
Pioneer BDP 180
Dali zensor 7 (front)
Dali zensor 1 (Surround)
Samsung UHD 55 Inches
Denon X2200
Room size is 12x30
type of music English, Bollywood, retro and ghazals
Source cd/usb/flac/mp3

When it comes to movies and games I am really impressed and satisfied with the performance but when it comes to music I really feel something is missing. I am looking for that crystal clear music like when you hear a live performance, the clarity you get these days from your car music system or the clarity you get from the JBL Portable Bluetooth Large Speakers.
I have tried using Modi Schmitt DAC but not got that clarity. I use lot of original audio CDs for music.
Please advise what change I can make to improve my music and get what I am expecting. Wil adding a separate Marantz CD Player might solve my problem. Please suggest some ideas

You are trying to find performance and magic of dedicated music listening setup from a HT setup.
Looks like you need a dedicated stereo setup for music. If any of your friends have any stereo amplifier (look for Marantz, NAD preferably) then try borrowing it for few hours and run it with your Dali Z7 in your room. You may find what your are looking for. You don't need sub-woofer, just Z7 connected to stereo amplifier.
If borrowing any stereo amplifier is not possible then audition at any seller's place (there must several dealers near your location, I hope).
You can look for CDP or DAC as per your requirements later.

I hope trying this would help.

 

[drkrack]

You have a decent setup, and there's no reason that it should be sounding bad in my opinion.
Room acoustics and speakers positioning are the first things I'd look into, as its a relatively long room. Cables of at least 12awg and good shielded interconnects have to be employed. If these check boxes are ticked, you can consider upgrading your electronics. Please post layout of room with accompanying items like doors, windows and furniture etc. I had a similar problem of satisfactory movie performance and poor music performance where room acoustics helped me a lot. You can check my thread in acoustics section.

Pioneer bdp 180 is reasonably good player for Audio Cds. I think You're using a optical out from it to Schiit Modi Multibit. Check the digital coaxial as well and see.

A stereo amp is a best upgrade you should be considering, denon x2200w is not great for stereo listening. Add a stereo amp, NAD, Yamaha and Marantz or Pioneer you can look into. Home audition would be better in my opinion. IMHO You will be satisfied with a NAD amp from the type of SQ you're referring to.

A good CD player like Marantz 6xxx series will improve your setup definitely but not a dramatic increase in SQ over bdp 180 and entry level DAC. If audio Cds is going to be your source then investing in a better CD player makes lot of sense, I'd suggest you to sell the entry level DAC and buy a better CD player in that case.


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[rajivaryan1984]

Thanks Dk, first of all thanks a lot for your guidance buddy but let me share some more information as I think you and the forum members can help...

1. On DAC I have Schiit Modi Multibit. It is connected via optical to BPP-180 and Red/White RCA cable to Denon AVR X2200. The cables are of high quality. Please advise if this configuration is correct or I am using the DAC right way. Because performance wise I didn't found any difference as compared to playing CD via BDP-180.

2.ON CONSIDERING STEREO AMP you suggested me to consider NAD, Yamaha and Marantz or Pioneer. Do u recommend to go ahead with NAD 3020 ? As I have heard lot of positive reviews about the same. Also I have a 1TB hard disk with all my flac collection. If you are giving me a go ahead on NAD D3020 kindly advise how to procure the same in India.

3. now my Dali z7 speakers are connected to denon avr and on bringing on the NAD how to connect the speakers to both the sources.

4. Finally for the CD player do i still need to add a cd player or will BDP 180 suffice. If Not and a CD Player is required, please advise the if I should connect it via Denon and the best way yo connect it via denon.

I know these are lot of questions but please advise...

 

[drkrack]

Thanks Dk, first of all thanks a lot for your guidance buddy but let me share some more information as I think you and the forum members can help...



1. On DAC I have Schiit Modi Multibit. It is connected via optical to BPP-180 and Red/White RCA cable to Denon AVR X2200. The cables are of high quality. Please advise if this configuration is correct or I am using the DAC right way. Because performance wise I didn't found any difference as compared to playing CD via BDP-180.



2.ON CONSIDERING STEREO AMP you suggested me to consider NAD, Yamaha and Marantz or Pioneer. Do u recommend to go ahead with NAD 3020 ? As I have heard lot of positive reviews about the same. Also I have a 1TB hard disk with all my flac collection. If you are giving me a go ahead on NAD D3020 kindly advise how to procure the same in India.



3. now my Dali z7 speakers are connected to denon avr and on bringing on the NAD how to connect the speakers to both the sources.



4. Finally for the CD player do i still need to add a cd player or will BDP 180 suffice. If Not and a CD Player is required, please advise the if I should connect it via Denon and the best way yo connect it via denon.



I know these are lot of questions but please advise...

1. The connection between DAC, bdp 180 and AVR is pretty fine. and Since you aren't getting much difference between between with and without DAC there are two possibilities, one the DAC is really entry level and no better than the decent on board DAC of bdp 180. Second which I think is most probably the reason, that the details from the speakers are being lost due to reverberation and you're getting a dull sound devoid of any appreciable details. Again I'll stress you on optimization with acoustics and speakers positioning. If its the first issue, you're better off selling the DAC and considering a stereo amp

2. By Nad I meant the classic BEE series amps and not the digital 'D' series amps, I don't have any experience with the new amps. Nad d3020 has a power of 32w, Zensor 7 has avg sensitivity at 6ohm. You'd be needing a more powerful amp IMHO. I usually match amp with RMS power at least 50% of the Peak RMS the speakers can handle. So it'd be at least 75w capable amp at 6 ohm for Z7. Cambridge CXA 60 is one more option you should be considering. I'd avoid pairing Onkyo and Yamaha with Dali. Rega Brio and Marantz PM 5/6xxx + series can be considered as well. Since you have a dedicated DAC don't bother with digital inputs on stereo amp.
Nad d7020 etc can be directly ordered from Amazon USA and they're universal voltage compatible.

3. If Z7 has four binding posts all can be used, or get banana plugs and insert one behind other, make sure that the other amp is completely switched off (not even in standby mode) before operating the other amp.

4. If you have lots of Cds, its worth buying a Cdp instead of a DAC. If its a decent CD player like Marantz CD 6006 and above ; connect its analog output to denon AVR or stereo amp.

5. Buying a more powerful and musically acclaimed AVR like Marantz SR series, Anthem 720 or Yamaha Avantage series is another option, if you don't want the complexity of adding a stereo amp to the same set of speakers.

6. Do some acoustic measurements with REW or artnovion app and see for reverberation in your listening position. Also experiment with speaker positions.

Hopefully this helps you.

 

[ssf]

Before you invest in a stereo amp. I would suggest if possible that you try a stereo amp with your speakers at home. That way you will be able to tell if your current setup is the problem or if your room is a contributor.

Also, have you set up your receiver properly. Are you listening in Pure direct. What volume levels are you looking for clarity at ?

 

[jls001]

Second which I think is most probably the reason, that the details from the speakers are being lost due to reverberation and you're getting a dull sound devoid of any appreciable details. Again I'll stress you on optimization with acoustics and speakers positioning. If its the first issue, you're better off selling the DAC and considering a stereo amp

This is utterly sensible advice.

The room contributes a lot to the sound. Much more than we tend to think or accept.

Even if we're not keen to treat the room in any way, a lot can be gained by experimenting with speaker placement. A good starting point is to follow the Cardas method. If following the whole recommendation is not feasible, at least follow the recommendation for distance of speaker from front wall (the wall behind the speakers). Distance of speakers from front wall will affect bass response majorly. Thumb rule: start with recommended distance and hear for balance of bass, mids and treble using a good recording you're quite familiar with. If you need bass reinforcement, place speakers closer to front wall (and vice versa). Move one inch at a time. If bass is overwhelming, don't feel shy to stuff the port.

Distance of side walls from speakers is much less critical in my limited experience. It affects lateral imaging and image specificity. Try moving speakers closer or apart in steps of one inch.

Try different amount of toe in. Thumb rule: If the treble is hot, reduce toe in (and vice versa). They must be symmetrical so that your phantom stereo must be bang in the center.

At some point you'll get a better image depth, good tonal balance of bass, mids, highs and various voices and instruments will sound clearer than before, and you'll be able to follow lyrics more easily.

A good starting point is to buy a measuring tape Never trust your sight. A few centimeters here and there matters!

An improvised bass trap in the corners can tame bass further.

Absorbing material placed at the first reflection point will take your imaging up several notches.

After you've done above optimizations, if you're still not happy with your sound, you can legitimately think of equipment upgrade

 

[apk]

very good advice jsl001!

As others have mentioned, never underestimate the effect that the room can have on your audio setup. I was amazed at the difference in sound when I moved my audio setup from the larger living room to a smaller spare bedroom. I could not even believe that it was the same set of speakers/amplifiers that were singing to full glory in the larger room, but sounded so different in the smaller room.

Please do play around with your speaker positioning as advised by others. If possible put a rug between your speakers and your listening chair/sofa since Indian house floors are usually reflective (marble/tiles)

best,
apk

 

[rajivaryan1984]

Thanks for the inputs but I have one question and if someone can help me. Let me go ahead and use my Pioneer BDP 180 for both music and movies. My questions are :-

1. How the Pioneer BDP 180 can be used for both movies and music ( for movies it will be connected to Denon AVR 2200 and for music I may have another stereo Marantz amplifier).

2, My dedicated speakers are currently for denon 2200 for movies but how do I connect the speakers to marantz stereo also.

Kindly share your inputs...

 

[forever.pramod]

Thanks for the inputs but I have one question and if someone can help me. Let me go ahead and use my Pioneer BDP 180 for both music and movies. My questions are :-

1. How the Pioneer BDP 180 can be used for both movies and music ( for movies it will be connected to Denon AVR 2200 and for music I may have another stereo Marantz amplifier).

2, My dedicated speakers are currently for denon 2200 for movies but how do I connect the speakers to marantz stereo also.

Kindly share your inputs...

I don't think the Pioneer BDP 180 is bad for either. Other FMs can provide better inputs regarding this as per their experience.

For connecting single speaker pair to both amp and AVR, there are several ways.

Please refer the following post for better explanations.

http://www.hifivision.com/surround-amplifiers-receivers/66586-how-connect-avr-stereo-integrated.html

http://www.hifivision.com/home-thea...reo-set-up-5-1-movies-adding-avr-n-spkrs.html