New 683 are damaged. Please help!

[arana]

Hello everyone

I have recently purchased the marantz PM 7005 with bowers and Wilkins 683 floor standing speakers, just about a month ago and probably used this set up about 5 times. We haven't had time to fully use the set up, so I'm shocked to discover today that the tweeters in one of the speakers is now damaged, or over burnt; in the dealers language. I've been told that we probably used these at too much volume; and that my amp is quite powerful (which was initially recommended), and that this sometimes happens when people play at high volumes, and duration of use doesn't matter.

I tried to explain that I would probably get this logic if I have consistently played these speakers at high volumes, however it's hard to believe we could have caused such damage by playing music 4 times. Now my option is to go for the warranty which will replace the tweeters, and not the speakers.

I'm writing here because I'm totally disappointed. And pissed off to be doing this whole replacement crap so early. I would request all of you to let me know if a) anyone has been successful in obtaining a complete speakers replacement under a b&w warranty or if it's normal for parts to be replaced; and b) if any of you can help me understand if the logic provided by the dealer makes any sense. Is this set up not good enough to handle the speakers, and considering I never played these speakers too high volume in the first place. Will this stuff keep happening?

I would love to hear from anyone who can help me understand if this is normal, considering the limited usage of my speakers. Sorry if I've rambled too much but I don't know enough about hifi to even gauge if I'm being taken for a ride !

 

[john_k_antony]

Sorry to hear this.

I had a similar experience with KEF Q300s. I was using them in my HT room and damaged the woofers and tweeters couple of time. I got the speakers from ProFx, Bangalore and they were kind enough to replace the whole speaker once and changed the damaged tweeters second time. The whole incident happened with in a matter of 3 months after buying the speakers. And I was super impressed with ProFx support. In my case, drivers were burnt due to under powering. I was using a Denon 2310 AVR to drive KEF Q300 in an acoustically treated dedicated HT room at HT reference level volume.

I think you MUST try for the full speaker replacement. In the worst case, they should do the driver replacement under warranty.

If the dealer is trying to act smart, go the social media route and send as many emails to the main B&W support/sales and CC'ing the local dealer.

-John.

 

[Audio_Freek]

Might be OT,But still feel to update

We have another FM complaining that the Usage of AVR for FS is raising the concern.One of other Fm is bit scared to use the AVR with FS.

Has something gone with the entry level AVR or the people are really getting missleaded to buy low powered (Thought in papers they are give as Power Machines)

 

[ghatgepatil]

Your amp is definitely under-powered for the 683s ! That is a fact.

Marantz UK | PM7005

683 | 600 Series | Bowers & Wilkins

60W @ 8O / 80W @ 4O. The speakers do go down to 3O on certain tracks. If you had been playing them 'sufficiently' loud even for a small stretch of time, that would have been enough for a tweeter burn-out. The excess current draw even for a couple of minutes is ! An amp with specs like 60W @ 8O / 120W @ 4O might have seen through the 'loud' stretch unblemished.

Whoever has advised you for the 'coupling' is to be blamed ! In such cases, it would be unfair to expect dealers to replace full speakers !!!

 

[arana]

Hey
Thanks so much for all your responses.
I think I may have made an error, I have bought the 684 S2 floor standers, and the manual says that they would work fine with an amp between 25-150W. I did try these speakers with a Rotel amp but it didn't sound as impressive as the marantz. The chosen amp is also more expensive, and the dealer did not point out any mistake in the pairing, I guess I should have done more research to see if it'll work fine.

But isn't is ok for this pairing to work considering this amp works till 80w anyway?

Also, this dealer has now suggested that since I'm insisting on replacing the speakers, he can give me the 683's for a reduced price, as b&w will only replace tweeters, that too not in situations when customer has overplayed it, apparently !

So is this guy an idiot for suggesting me to buy speakers which require even more power ?

I should clarify that I have probably no option of changing the amp

 

[ghatgepatil]

1. Do name the dealer in here. That might be of help to other unsuspecting FMs. Also, the dealer might possess some other compatible speaker brands with your amp ... say, like Monitor Audio ... unless you have a fetish for B&W.

2. 684 specs are harsh too! Yes, 683 is a mite tougher to drive.

 

[drgb]

Hey,
Firstly extremely sorry to hear about your troubles. After spending this amount of dough; if a person has to undergo such a pain....
Anyway, as pointed out by another FM, the amp is to blame here. However it is good news that only your speaker was damaged and not the amp itself.
I'd suggest you go ahead with the repair and get your tweeter module serviced. B&W service is good and you'll face no problems there I hope
As far as the offer by the dealer to replace your 684s with 683s.....well bullshit. This is why I hate the Indian business mentality. The dealer should have instead helped you in understanding the problem and assured to liaise a smooth repair experience for you. Instead he seems to be trying to make a profit out of your situation. Who knows if he'll get your 684s repaired and sell them off as new or "showroom demo unit" to an unsuspecting customer.
Do let us know the progress of your case.
And yes; next time playing at high volumes is definitely a no no.
Good Luck!

 

[COOLDUDE7808]

I know this might be a repetitive question ...which is better .. a amp which has more power - (say in this case a amp with 200w @8 ohms and speakers with 30-150 w) ...or since it has more power will it still burn out the tweeters

 

[magma]

always buy an amp that is OVERpowered

speakers get damaged 90% of the time when they are driven by underpowered amps that send them a clipped signal once they are driven over a certain volume level

because you use an underpowered amp and one day you are in a party mood you need to crank up the volume to hear the system loud
when you do this and reach 75-80% of the volume
you now get into dangerous territotry of sending a clipped signal


partly the fault is with the consumers
You wanna buy expensive speakers and want to skimp on the amp
its not fair to the speaker or your amp

then ofcourse theres always the idiots
who look at speaker specs and get impressed
wow a 100w speaker !!
bullshit!!!
a good 50W speaker will be easier to drive and will give you its best with a modest amp

 

[keith_correa]

If you never cranked up the volume and despite this the tweeter is damaged you will be covered under warranty and they should replace the tweeter. Don't settle for less. Don't back down.

 

[arana]

@magma : Actually I did NOT skimp on anything. This amp cost me over a lakh, and so did the speakers, and I saved up for a while to buy all this. Everyone keeps telling u to hear the equipment and buy what sounds best to you, which is what I did, now if some things are not compatible because of reasons mentioned by some posters above, then in my view that is the dealer's job to direct me to the correct decision. What else is a demo for anyway ? If everyone is supposed to be an amateur sound engineer to buy a sound system, then well...

Anyhow, I would urge everyone to steer clear of the dealer I have had the misfortune of interacting with, as now I just don't trust this guy and am just preparing myself for a headache. I told my husband to talk to him as I thought he's probably not taking me seriously as I'm a woman, after which he was apparently more helpful, to the extent that he suggested we buy the 683's and he'll try and pawn off the damaged 684's to someone else. Wow !

Who knows maybe I've been handed over a faulty product too. I will divulge his name once I've had some resolution over this issue, don't want to complicate things. But it shouldn't be difficult for people to find out authorised b&w distributors in delhi/Gurgaon ..

 

[keith_correa]

This amp cost me over a lakh

Wait, what? For the Marantz PM7005? Wow!!!

 

[Prasad Karpe]

Actually that may be the right reason. The dealer must have given you the repaired piece.
As you have already said that you had not cranked the volume then it doesn't seems to be your fault.

 

[mpw]

arana,

I looked at this thread yesterday and i wanted some time to put in what i think of it.

a. The amp is certainly under-powered ( as per its specs ).

b. Your speakers dip to 3.5 ohm and if the power supply on the amplifier is not good enough to handle this, the signal can clip.

c. The dealer should have made a better choice of amp for you. I do not for once blame you for taking this amp on the dealers recco.

d. While some amount of basic research would have helped ( before purchase if you had posted on the forum, you may have made a better choice ) but thats no excuse for the dealer to not do a honest sale.

e. Now that we are in this situation, its best to get the tweeters replaced under warranty. While warranty replacement is not common it is not an isolated incident either.

f. Put your amp for sale and recover what you can or else put the speakers for sale and recover what you can.

g. The 683 is the larger speaker and your present amp will have an even harder time driving it

If the dealer stocks other brands, please explore that.

It will be better for you to put up your choice on the forum so that you may have a better perspective while making a choice based on your taste and your ears.

h. Please write to B&W in the UK and tell them about your experience - i am pretty sure as a respected company, they will respond to you as the most important thing for them is their image.

i. Do let them know how you feel about the dealer so that they review the same and decide if the dealer had failed to be honest in the quest for a sale.

I hope this has not put you off on the audio trail...

While all of us like a smooth road, there will be bumps along the way. But its up to us to make the best of the situation in a pleasant way without ruining our basic happiness or sleep over it.

Do continue to love music...it can be a very satisfying experience.

Wish you luck !

regards