Peerless India 3" full range driver

[soundnovice]

hi all
have anybody used 3" full range driver from Peerless India. the model number is LK-76 (SH) as in the datasheet. i am planning to use this in simple TQWT as in below link
Cyburgs Needle TQWT Visaton FRS 8 and Gainclone Amplifier

thanks,
pranam

 

[trittya]

i am planning to use this in simple TQWT as in below link
Cyburgs Needle TQWT Visaton FRS 8 and Gainclone Amplifier

thanks,
pranam

IMHO, alongwith the metronome here, these are two of the simplest designs to build with very little chance of anything going wrong. I am sure you'll agree

Metronome-Speaker
The Metronome
The Metronome - diyAudio
The Metronome MLQQWT (Page 1) / DIY Projects / Fullrangedriver Forum

I suggest you look no further (than either of these) on the cabinet design aspect and concentrate on your choice of driver.

Regards

 

[Hari Iyer]

hi all
have anybody used 3" full range driver from Peerless India. the model number is LK-76 (SH) as in the datasheet. i am planning to use this in simple TQWT as in below link
Cyburgs Needle TQWT Visaton FRS 8 and Gainclone Amplifier

thanks,
pranam

I have used this 3" full-wave driver as a satellite speaker for my 5.1 HT setup but would not adivse you to use it for TL design. This is because it does not have a good mid-range response beyond 4KHz and there is a cone-breakup which is quite evident. I would rather suggest you to use the S081E 3.5" glass-fiber cone driver which has a smooth mid-range response. Agreed the 3" full-wave driver has a low resonating freq of 70Hz and the 3.5" has a resonating frequency of 125Hz and hence the bass will be low. But you need to look at the overall response of the speaker and not only the bass response. You still can get around 60Hz of bass using the 3.5" driver.

Cheers,

 

[soundnovice]

I have used this 3" full-wave driver as a satellite speaker for my 5.1 HT setup but would not adivse you to use it for TL design. This is because it does not have a good mid-range response beyond 4KHz and there is a cone-breakup which is quite evident. I would rather suggest you to use the S081E 3.5" glass-fiber cone driver which has a smooth mid-range response. Agreed the 3" full-wave driver has a low resonating freq of 70Hz and the 3.5" has a resonating frequency of 125Hz and hence the bass will be low. But you need to look at the overall response of the speaker and not only the bass response. You still can get around 60Hz of bass using the 3.5" driver.

Cheers,

if 3.5" can meet 60hz its quite enough for me. from its FR i see it can reach upto 7khz only. so it makes a tweeter must. on cyburg needle design, how and where can i mount the tweeter? what would be the ideal xover point?

 

[Hari Iyer]

if 3.5" can meet 60hz its quite enough for me. from its FR i see it can reach upto 7khz only. so it makes a tweeter must. on cyburg needle design, how and where can i mount the tweeter? what would be the ideal xover point?

It depends upon what kind of application you are going to use this TL speaker for. If you are using it as a soundbox for your LCD/Plasma TV then you can live without the Tweeter as the P081E can sounds quite ok till 12KHz (-6dB). But if you intend to use it for Hi-Fi Music application, then i will recommend to use solid-state Tweeter (piezo-electric types) so that you do not have to use any cross-over network. These piez0-electric tweeters can be connected directly across the P081E (reverse connected for correct phasing - as there actually is a internal capacitor in a piezo electric tweeter) work quite well above 10KHz and will be able to cater to the high-frequency response you are looking for.

Cheers,

 

[gobble]

if 3.5" can meet 60hz its quite enough for me. from its FR i see it can reach upto 7khz only. so it makes a tweeter must. on cyburg needle design, how and where can i mount the tweeter? what would be the ideal xover point?

witha 3.5" I think you may be lucky to get 60hz but volume will be very low and lacking in slam punch and impact. You may need to supplement it with a sub.

That will take away the advantage of using a TL I think.

--G0bble

 

[soundnovice]

It depends upon what kind of application you are going to use this TL speaker for. If you are using it as a soundbox for your LCD/Plasma TV then you can live without the Tweeter as the P081E can sounds quite ok till 12KHz (-6dB). But if you intend to use it for Hi-Fi Music application, then i will recommend to use solid-state Tweeter (piezo-electric types) so that you do not have to use any cross-over network. These piez0-electric tweeters can be connected directly across the P081E (reverse connected for correct phasing - as there actually is a internal capacitor in a piezo electric tweeter) work quite well above 10KHz and will be able to cater to the high-frequency response you are looking for.

Cheers,

any idea which company makes piezo tweeters in India? i live in bangalore.

 

[Hari Iyer]

witha 3.5" I think you may be lucky to get 60hz but volume will be very low and lacking in slam punch and impact. You may need to supplement it with a sub.

That will take away the advantage of using a TL I think.

--G0bble

The low frequency output is a functiion of the line and the resonating frequency of the driver and not the size of the driver. Typically a TL design goes half octave down the resonating frequency of the driver. If the resonating freq of the driver is 120Hz you can expect 60Hz output from the TL line at -6dB reference level. The punch and impact will be quite good (difficult to belive but true) and will depend upon the SPL of the driver. I have built many TL devices of 4" drivers which can give thumping low frequcies that exceed a 10" & 12" drivers.

Cheers,

 

[soundnovice]

i have read people mentioning about Xmax value of the driver which also decides how much low the driver can go.

 

[Hari Iyer]

i have read people mentioning about Xmax value of the driver which also decides how much low the driver can go.

Yes, its true, you require higher xmaxs if you require a longer throw. Hence 10" & 12" drivers will be required to cover a larger area. But if you are looking for a 10' x 15' room then these 3.5" drivers should also be able to do justice. Remember the Bose satellites cover an 10' x 20' area quite well with the low mids & highs and uses a sub-woofer to agument the low ends. The only difference with your system is you are using the 3.5" also for the low frequency and the TL is helping you to achive that 60Hz of sound. If you decide on the driver 3" Peerless or 3.5" peerless, please let me know then i can design the TL for you which you can DIY.

Cheers,

 

[soundnovice]

Yes, its true, you require higher xmaxs if you require a longer throw. Hence 10" & 12" drivers will be required to cover a larger area. But if you are looking for a 10' x 15' room then these 3.5" drivers should also be able to do justice. Remember the Bose satellites cover an 10' x 20' area quite well with the low mids & highs and uses a sub-woofer to agument the low ends. The only difference with your system is you are using the 3.5" also for the low frequency and the TL is helping you to achive that 60Hz of sound. If you decide on the driver 3" Peerless or 3.5" peerless, please let me know then i can design the TL for you which you can DIY.

Cheers,

as much as possible i want to avoid using tweeter. these speakers will be mainly used for listening to hindustani classical music by my parents and will be connected to tv for regular viewing. so even if the drivers can reach 12k then its quite sufficient. let me know your choice whether this can be done just with peerless drivers or visaton FRS8 are needed. FRS8 cost me 1200/unit.

 

[Hari Iyer]

as much as possible i want to avoid using tweeter. these speakers will be mainly used for listening to hindustani classical music by my parents and will be connected to tv for regular viewing. so even if the drivers can reach 12k then its quite sufficient. let me know your choice whether this can be done just with peerless drivers or visaton FRS8 are needed. FRS8 cost me 1200/unit.

I reviewed both the Peerless P081E and Visaton FRS8 time-domain sheet and found the Visaton FRS8 better than P081E in the FR aspect. Both the drivers has a resonating frequency of around 120Hz. Hence the low frequency response of both the drivers will be similar. You will need to use a Baffle-step compensatory (-6dB) for agumenting the low-frequency response and a zoble compensator with the drivers. i will recommend the Visaton FRS8 if your budget allows you. Also will suggest not to use the classic TL or TQWT for these designs. I will design an exo-linear TL for this design which will be very compact along with the compensation networks required. Also the damping will have to be intelligently used for these designs.

Cheers,

 

[soundnovice]

I reviewed both the Peerless P081E and Visaton FRS8 time-domain sheet and found the Visaton FRS8 better than P081E in the FR aspect. Both the drivers has a resonating frequency of around 120Hz. Hence the low frequency response of both the drivers will be similar. You will need to use a Baffle-step compensatory (-6dB) for agumenting the low-frequency response and a zoble compensator with the drivers. i will recommend the Visaton FRS8 if your budget allows you. Also will suggest not to use the classic TL or TQWT for these designs. I will design an exo-linear TL for this design which will be very compact along with the compensation networks required. Also the damping will have to be intelligently used for these designs.

Cheers,

thats great Hari. i will be interested in this and i will go with FRS8. how abt high freq. response of these drivers? i mean how much high u think they can go?

 

[Hari Iyer]

thats great Hari. i will be interested in this and i will go with FRS8. how abt high freq. response of these drivers? i mean how much high u think they can go?

Carefully analyzing the FR curve of the FRS8, the FR is reasonably flat till 3KHz and after that they tend to peak till 10KHz and resonate at 10KHz and beyond that there are low-Q and high-Q points. You might experience some hearing fatigue with this driver due to this non-linear response. This needs to be taken care of by using a parallel notch-filter designed around 10KHz using a simulator to carefully attenuate the high & low Q points.

Alternatively if you analyze the Peerless P081E driver there is a roll-off after a gradual peaking at 12KHz and it will sound more easy and smooth compared to the FRS8. Having said that if the FRS8 is taken care of the peak at 10KHz then it will sound better than the Peerless, else there are chances of hearing fatigue with this driver.

One more paramete i am not impressed about the FRS8 is the SPL level. Its just 82db/w/m. Thats too low and will require a higher power amplifer to drive this speaker. As 3dB implies to half power, the Peerless driver can be easily driven by even a 10 Watt amplifier (90db/w/m) and can handle is 100 watts max power. The FRS8 is 50 watts max power and will require atleast a 40 watts amplifer to give the same output as the Peerless driver. Please consider this points before you buy the FRS8. Also the Peerless can be directly connected without any high low Q compensation due to roll-off of the driver beyond the pass band while the FRS8 does not roll-off but tends to peak. Remember its always the openess of the mid-range that will decide the final quality of the speaker system and not wider frequency response.

Cheers,

 

[soundnovice]

One more paramete i am not impressed about the FRS8 is the SPL level. Its just 82db/w/m. Thats too low and will require a higher power amplifer to drive this speaker. As 3dB implies to half power, the Peerless driver can be easily driven by even a 10 Watt amplifier (90db/w/m) and can handle is 100 watts max power. The FRS8 is 50 watts max power and will require atleast a 40 watts amplifer to give the same output as the Peerless driver. Please consider this points before you buy the FRS8. Also the Peerless can be directly connected without any high low Q compensation due to roll-off of the driver beyond the pass band while the FRS8 does not roll-off but tends to peak. Remember its always the openess of the mid-range that will decide the final quality of the speaker system and not wider frequency response.

Cheers,

i am having norge 2060 (80w/ch at 4 ohms) amplifier. in the datasheet there is no impedance curve given for S081E. its operating freq. range is given as 200hz to 7khz. so will it need any xover or compensation ckt? also if its response stops at 7khz then does not it make a tweeter must? the whole point of my idea to go for fullrange was to avoid xover components and keep the design as simple as possible.

 

[Hari Iyer]

i am having norge 2060 (80w/ch at 4 ohms) amplifier. in the datasheet there is no impedance curve given for S081E. its operating freq. range is given as 200hz to 7khz. so will it need any xover or compensation ckt? also if its response stops at 7khz then does not it make a tweeter must? the whole point of my idea to go for fullrange was to avoid xover components and keep the design as simple as possible.

If you carefully analyze the FR of the peerless there is a peak after 7KHz which extends till 10KHz after which there is a roll-off. If you use a piezo-electric tweeter then you can directly connect it across (reverse connect) this driver to get the extended high-frequency response you are looking for. You need not use any parallel notch with this driver as the response is reasonably flat from 200Hz till 10KHz, hence no compensation will be required for high-low Q points. The piezo-tweeter can always be added later if you feel the high-freq response is not good enought. If you are going to use the Norge amplifier with this speaker the Pmax of the speaker should be able to handle this amplifier. You need not worry about the impedance curve not present as this will be required only if your intend to use a cross-over. You can consider the D.C. Resistance of the voice coil for the zobel network.

The difficulty with speaker systems are unless you build them you cannot justify/ judge how it will sound and hence there is always a scope for fine tuning and alignment after subjective listening test. You will need to alter the resistor value for the baffel step compensator to get the right balance of the low-mids-highs. Hence hobby & passion is required to get them tweaked to the right level, taste and listening preferences.

Cheers,

 

[soundnovice]

If you carefully analyze the FR of the peerless there is a peak after 7KHz which extends till 10KHz after which there is a roll-off. If you use a piezo-electric tweeter then you can directly connect it across (reverse connect) this driver to get the extended high-frequency response you are looking for. You need not use any parallel notch with this driver as the response is reasonably flat from 200Hz till 10KHz, hence no compensation will be required for high-low Q points. The piezo-tweeter can always be added later if you feel the high-freq response is not good enought. If you are going to use the Norge amplifier with this speaker the Pmax of the speaker should be able to handle this amplifier. You need not worry about the impedance curve not present as this will be required only if your intend to use a cross-over. You can consider the D.C. Resistance of the voice coil for the zobel network.

The difficulty with speaker systems are unless you build them you cannot justify/ judge how it will sound and hence there is always a scope for fine tuning and alignment after subjective listening test. You will need to alter the resistor value for the baffel step compensator to get the right balance of the low-mids-highs. Hence hobby & passion is required to get them tweaked to the right level, taste and listening preferences.

Cheers,

as a second option, i came to know about boston acoustics (previously philips) full range drivers. on the website not much tech details like FR curves or T/S parameters are mentioned, but somewhere read that they can reach 10khz. they have whizzer cone and are 8". they cost Rs.350/unit.

D&M Premium Sound Solutions
[WTS] Boston Acoustics HQ48414 Full Range 8" Speakers

as far as peerless drivers are concerned for the proposed design, i will first go with single driver solution and addon a tweeter later if required.

 

[Hari Iyer]

as a second option, i came to know about boston acoustics (previously philips) full range drivers. on the website not much tech details like FR curves or T/S parameters are mentioned, but somewhere read that they can reach 10khz. they have whizzer cone and are 8". they cost Rs.350/unit.

D&M Premium Sound Solutions
[WTS] Boston Acoustics HQ48414 Full Range 8" Speakers

as far as peerless drivers are concerned for the proposed design, i will first go with single driver solution and addon a tweeter later if required.

I would advise against buying Boston Acoustics for the following reason,
1. Used condition, hence not sure how it will be
2. In absence of FR curve and other parameters, it will be difficult to compensate if required after building.
3. Size is 8" and is large for room size.

Pros of Peerless design:
1. No major compensation required other than zobel or baffle step
2. Good power handling and sensitivity.
3. 4 ohms impedance allowing lower powered amplifers.
4. 3.5" size allowing compact designs.
5. Flatter mid-range response
6. Reasonably priced Rs.500/- in Mumbai.

Cheers,

 

[soundnovice]

I would advise against buying Boston Acoustics for the following reason,
1. Used condition, hence not sure how it will be
2. In absence of FR curve and other parameters, it will be difficult to compensate if required after building.
3. Size is 8" and is large for room size.

Pros of Peerless design:
1. No major compensation required other than zobel or baffle step
2. Good power handling and sensitivity.
3. 4 ohms impedance allowing lower powered amplifers.
4. 3.5" size allowing compact designs.
5. Flatter mid-range response
6. Reasonably priced Rs.500/- in Mumbai.

Cheers,

above list convinces me that peerless drivers are the way to go. any idea approx. what would be the size of the exo-linear TL box you mentioned? how can we proceed with the design and building the box?

 

[jaudere]

Hi,
The same drivers (philips) are avalable by the name of 'pulse'. Same cost as you mentioned. The box gives the FR Curve. I will try and find out if I have the box. ( i have 3 drivers but cant remember the box). If i get it, i will click a picture and post it.
I have used the driver on open baffle. I had to supplement it with a tweeter(crossed at 4khz and a woof below 200hz)
The frequ range claimed is 55hz to 22khz.