ProJect Debut III experiences

[Shivam]

I have already packed my ProJect Debut III turntable but I thought of writing a few words about my listening experiences with it.

I had bought the turntable from Nova Audio and was using it with a DIY phono preamp. Initially I used the turntable with the supplied Ortofon OM5e cartridge.
The turntable model looks very similar to a model by Musichall and also by Rega. I guess a singe manufacturer must be making these entry models according to the company's specifications.

The first LP that I had tried was Disco Deewane - Nazia Hassan. The foot tapping music was all too engaging with this turntable. I have the same album on CD and the CD even after playing on a system costing 10 times as much didn't come anywhere close to the LP on this turntable.

I thought of venturing out into more Hindi music and started with some Jagjit Singh's ghazals. These turned out to be a little muddled to me and lifeless. Initially I thought it was a problem with the turntable since at the same time another Technics turntable with an EEI cartridge was able to extract good music from the same LP. I left the Hindi LPs there itself.

Next I tried with some country music LPs and the sound was superb. No harshness and the upper end was smooth. The bass too extended to pleasing lows. Johnny Cash was my favourite LP and he really sang on the turntable.

In the back of my mind there were still those Hindi LPs. My expensive Linn TT could play them well and so did the inexpensive Technics. I then remembered an AudioTechnica cartridge that had been gifted to me sometime back. I tried this and the music from the Hindi LPs too started flowing out quite easily. Later I changed to 2M red and the quality dipped a little but remained musical. After some days of using AudioTechnica again, I shifted back to OM5e and now I could hear the Hindi Records too playing as well as the international pressings. Maybe the factory mounted cartridge was not very well aligned initially. (that is one pointer for anyone buying a new turntable with a factory mounted cartridge- always check its alignment).

I enjoyed Kishore Kumar at Los Angeles on the newly 're-mounted' OM5e and it was superb. The live concert did seem nice with a huge soundstage and very musical.

I have heard reviews about huge improvements with the platter upgrade and power supply upgrades but I feel that one should instead buy a higher model turntable instead. This turntable can churn out good music with just the proper remounting of the cartridge or maybe upgrading the cartridge to 2M Red or AudioTechnica models with a heavier counterweight. I unfortunately could not compare this turntable with other similar models.

 

[john_k_antony]

Shivam,

What equipment do you need to check the alignment? I too have a Debut III that came with factory fitted OM5e. I would like to check the alignment on my TT as well.

Actually I did spend a lot of money on that TT already by upgrading platter, adding a speed box and upgrading the stylus to OM30. There is no doubt that this TT gives more music than what you have paid for. I compared this TT sound to other TTs that cost 3-4 times (music hall mmf 9.1). Well I wont say that this TT is in par with the high end ones, but this one is a decent performer. It also depends on what is there in rest of your chain.

I would also strongly recommend this TT for some one who wants to get the taste of what Vinyl sound is all about .

John.

 

[Shivam]

Shivam,

What equipment do you need to check the alignment? I too have a Debut III that came with factory fitted OM5e. I would like to check the alignment on my TT as well.

Actually I did spend a lot of money on that TT already by upgrading platter, adding a speed box and upgrading the stylus to OM30. There is no doubt that this TT gives more music than what you have paid for. I compared this TT sound to other TTs that cost 3-4 times (music hall mmf 9.1). Well I wont say that this TT is in par with the high end ones, but this one is a decent performer. It also depends on what is there in rest of your chain.

I would also strongly recommend this TT for some one who wants to get the taste of what Vinyl sound is all about .

John.

You can use the paper protractor that is supplied with the turntable to check the alignment. VTA can't be adjusted in this table's arm and so you'll have to make sure that the new platter is almost the same height as the old one with the felt mat, that you replaced.

You can download the protractor from the link in this thread-
http://www.hifivision.com/phono-turntables/28353-cartridge-protractor-alignment.html

 

[Shivam]

Coming to the point of VTA-
Ideally the records should also have the same thickness but they don't. I have seen some really light thin LPs of Sony CBS which are almost half the thickness of some old Columbia or Mobile Fidelity records.

If this was not enough, there are cartridges that track better with slightly higher or lower setting than ideal.

I am glad that ProJect Debut III has done away with this and brought peace to minds of many.

 

[Shivam]

For those looking for cartridge alignment basics-
Cartridge Alignment: The Basics Explained

 

[reubensm]

How does the Project Debut III match up against a properly calibrated vintage Technics DD TT? Any experience to share, anyone? Particularly interested in comments on inner groove distortion.

 

[Shivam]

How does the Project Debut III match up against a properly calibrated vintage Technics DD TT? Any experience to share, anyone? Particularly interested in comments on inner groove distortion.

I had tried Technics SL-D3 turntable with EEI cartridge, 2M Red and a AudioTechnica MM. The sound was comparable to ProJect Debut III with the AudioTechnica cartridge. 2M Red sounded better on the Project's tonearm. I didn't mount EEI on the ProJect. To me EEI sounded good with the lifeless Indian LP pressings. Somewhere in the forum I wrote about it and was suggested to try Shure instead.

I never liked the direct drive design since I could not understand the idea behind it. Belt drive is understandable by me and so I have a bias towards turntables with belt drive.

I don't have enough experience to comment on inner groove distortion but I somehow like the ProJect more than I liked my Technics.

 

[Shivam]

Interesting to note is that a lot of people like the sound of the ProJect Debut III and yet my turntable which I have put up for sale still remains unsold even at a modest pricing and offer.

Any suggestions from forum members what might be wrong? Have I priced it too high or too low? Should I remove the clubbed offer ?

(I am not writing this in my 'for sale' thread because that would be an unjust bumping of my own thread and not helpful for other fellow members who have their own 'for sale' threads)

 

[Shivam]

Coming back to my listening impressions of the ProJect Debut III turntable, I remembered that I had not written about the performance with 45rpm records.

I tried few 45rpm vinyls too. For doing this there are two options provided by ProJect. One is to remove the platter and change the belt to the second pulley on the motor. Second option is to buy a Speedbox. Speedbox makes sense if the turntable is being used in an area of not very good power supply. People have heard improvement in sound quality which has been attributed to improvement in the power supply. I use a dedicated power line for the system and so I opted for the first option.

First vinyl that I put was 'Baton Baton Mein'. It is a large size 45 rpm disc. The sound quality was very good. Even before I had played around with the cartridge alignment, Indian pressings of 45rpm sounded good. Next was a small 45rpm disc by Bob Marley, US pressing. No Woman, No Cry sounded just excellent. I have the digital version of this song too but that comes no where near the 45rpm disc that was supposed to be played on jukeboxes. I can just imagine the sound quality of the same album available from Mobile Fidelity records.

I tried a few more 45rpm and was happy to know that the turntable performed well at 45rpm too which in my opinion should have remained the industry standard instead of 33. There's no option of playing 78rpm on this turntable.

 

[john_k_antony]

Shivam,

For 78 rpm, I thought you could play them by using a 33/78 pulley and a OM 78 stylus.

Pro-Ject Audio Systems

Ortofon 78 Replacement Stylus. Worlds Largest Selection of Needles. 1-800-229-0644.

John

 

[Shivam]

Shivam,

For 78 rpm, I thought you could play them by using a 33/78 pulley and a OM 78 stylus.

Pro-Ject Audio Systems

Ortofon 78 Replacement Stylus. Worlds Largest Selection of Needles. 1-800-229-0644.

John

Thanks for the link. I don't have this system and so I never tried 78rpm.

 

[miroflex]

Interesting to note is that a lot of people like the sound of the ProJect Debut III and yet my turntable which I have put up for sale still remains unsold even at a modest pricing and offer.

Any suggestions from forum members what might be wrong? Have I priced it too high or too low? Should I remove the clubbed offer ?

(I am not writing this in my 'for sale' thread because that would be an unjust bumping of my own thread and not helpful for other fellow members who have their own 'for sale' threads)

Shivam,

Don't be disheartened. You have a good product at a good price. I am sure that you will find a buyer if you wait a little longer. There are not too many turntable buyers in India.

All the best for your sale.

 

[reubensm]

I took out a few of my old Mantovani Phase-4 Stereo records last night and played them on my Technics SL3200 only to note how accurate the speed was...absolutely no wow and flutter. Tingling bells sounded like real tingling bells and the sound of a piano sounded perfect. Dont think belt drives and idlers can get that close to that level of perfection. Also, the old school will tell one that the difference turntable mechanicals would make to the sound is often a myth when compared to the realism and practicality of the concept that good vinyl sound is the result of a good tonearm and cart on a good plinth, and immaculate amplification. I have known of some of my father's "crazy" friends creating amazing sounding music using ordinary ceramic cartridges on old Garrard turntables, by tweeking their valve preamps...strictly my opinion and based on my personal experience, but those were the amazing good old days!!

Having said this, your TT is a good one with great reviews. However, putting out a turntable and getting it lapped up within minutes can happen realistically in India, only if your turntable is a Technics DD. They key is to be patient. Unlike the west (especially the United States), we Indians tend to start cautiously before indulging in expensive gear.

 

[Shivam]

I took out a few of my old Mantovani Phase-4 Stereo records last night and played them on my Technics SL3200 only to note how accurate the speed was...absolutely no wow and flutter. Tingling bells sounded like real tingling bells and the sound of a piano sounded perfect. Dont think belt drives and idlers can get that close to that level of perfection. Also, the old school will tell one that the difference turntable mechanicals would make to the sound is often a myth when compared to the realism and practicality of the concept that good vinyl sound is the result of a good tonearm and cart on a good plinth, and immaculate amplification. I have known of some of my father's "crazy" friends creating amazing sounding music using ordinary ceramic cartridges on old Garrard turntables, by tweeking their valve preamps...strictly my opinion and based on my personal experience, but those were the amazing good old days!!

Having said this, your TT is a good one with great reviews. However, putting out a turntable and getting it lapped up within minutes can happen realistically in India, only if your turntable is a Technics DD. They key is to be patient. Unlike the west (especially the United States), we Indians tend to start cautiously before indulging in expensive gear.

The turntable got sold. It was hard parting with it. I saw the price that I had bought it for and then realised that I had priced it a little on the higher side.

Like I said earlier, the concept of Direct Drive is something that I could never understand beyond the wow and flutter. My favorite and the most used turntable is a belt driven Linn Sondek LP12.

 

[john_k_antony]

Hey Shivam,

Congrats on the sale .

John.

 

[Shivam]

Hey Shivam,

Congrats on the sale .

John.

Suffering from seller's remorse now. It was a good turntable.
However my wife is happy. Says that I did a good job of reducing my LPs and turntables. She has agreed to let me buy an active room correction system. She has got a lot of shelf space from where my LPs used to stand (for her clothes I guess or worse still for her footwear... )
Anyway, a happy wife translates into a still higher chance of getting her to agree for system upgrades.

 

[john_k_antony]

Can't agree with you any more .... hyeah:

 

[reubensm]

a happy wife translates into a still higher chance of getting her to agree for system upgrades.

an involved wife helps you think about upgrades all the time...mine is, however she seems allergic to open reel technology and prefers cd, cassette and vinyl only