SoundStage and Imaging

[Thad E Ginathom]

It seems that I am not part of audience and listening to performance in front of me , but seems that I am being part of performance and instrumentalists are to left or right.

I think you are right, and that this is the difference between stereo and binaural. It is only in the past year or so that I have done much listening using headphones (apart from commuter-portable listening) and only recently I've been looking into how to make the experience better. It all started with stumbling on a review of that intriguing phonitor!

The origin of its design was to make it possible for a studio engineer (working in the field, for example) to monitor the mix using headphones, because with them, they just cannot experience the stereo field they are attempting to create for us --- and we cannot experience it either. I find that it is not the only headphone amp with crossfeed.

"they" say that listening with crossfeed is less fatiguing. After trying for a couple of hours, I think I agree. I don't think anything can really put headphone sound in front of our heads, because it isn't, but we can help the illusion. One forum contributor wrote that he didn't like it because it put the sound behind his head.

I think it is a step towards getting a soundstage on headphones. Only problem is that software I'm using somehow makes my 'phones sound cheaper :sad: and I don't understand the paramaters.

 

[rupy]

IMHO soundstaging is the image which the recording engineer intends you to have or it is the image electronically recorded for a live performance where the placing of the individual performers are ensured by the recording engineer.A sure way of getting your system to sound the way the recording engineer intends,is to play test CDs on your system.Try Stereophile Editors Choice, or Chesky Test CDs.Here you will have to manipulate your speaker placings or re-arrange your room to get to the closest possible imaging.This done,your system is tuned for imaging/soundstaging.

 

[bhagwan]

a nice check for 'sound-stage', 'width' and 'height' would be the pink floyd 'wall' cd, where the hepter part is. how many of us r able to feel this to be on our heads/overhead?

there is another piece where the content moves across the 'sound-stage', like a pebble skimming over water (but breadth wise).

also, 'sound-stage' in 2 ch is a different experience vis-a-vis in a 5.1 or 7.1 (where sounds may seem to emnate from behind or inside ur head.

Tutti - Ref Records - Briliant !! Track 1 / 10 / 13 / 16 [many more]
Dead Man Walking OST -
Seal -
Eva Cassidy -
Mary Black -
Patricia Barber -
Tina Turner -
Sheffield Test Disc -
Yello [Essential] -
ECM - Jan Garbarek -
Gundecha Brothers -
John Lee Hooker -
Hans Theesink -
Manger Test -
Burmester Test -
Tag McLaren Test -
Chanda Dhara [Indian Classical]
Chris Rea -
Frank Sinatra -
Dire Straits -
Classical [Western] Assorted - list is too long.
Michael Jackson -
etc. etc. etc.

I could go on & on.....

However, if you place your 'speakers' in a 'good' place - 'phantom' centre should be easy to manage.
The Left to Right too is a task that can be managed - however, it is the front to back that gets a bit difficult to get correct.
We do not want each performer to be seated above the other - then the toughest to get right is the 'spaces' between the performers....

I have spent 'years' on this & I am still striving...
Not an easy task.

However, it has to be 'experienced' & only then 1 will understand.
It is also not easy to differentiate - lots of time & patience & listing 'evolution' needs to go in to be able to get to understand these....

All said.
Phantom Centre & Left to Right should be easy to get.

1 easy place to start is Lagaan CD.
Play it - a few times & then listen to it a 'bit intently'
I do expect a lot of things to get 'clear' ! Just a suggestion....

p.s. Height - boy, that is a 'googly'
[Technically] There is no 'height' in a recording - however, if it is done right [the recording] & the playback is top notch - this can be achieved....
Mostly happens only in Western Classical Recordings - also there in Meeting By The River - Water Lilly Acoustics - Listen to track 3 'intently' & the Church in Santa Barbara will be 'audible' !! All the Best !!

 

[msagar]

Naseer,
I personally feel the only way we can experience the soundstage is by comparing recording venue with what your audio system reproduces. The high end audio is about Recreating Recording Venue @ home. This is what I do.

Best Method:
I used to go to live concerts in the Village (New York City). I do have few albums (for example Joshua Redmans Spirit of the Moment) recorded at the Village Vangurd. Happy to inform that I do have a CD autographed by Clark Terry at the same venue.

I compare albums I have (sound reproduced by the system) to original concerts I have attended.
Soundstage: If you listen to the Joshua Redmans album, you will hear Redman with Sax in the middle, piano to the left (4-6 left to the Redman), double bass in the middle behind Redman and drums to (6-8) to the right.
Depth: Piano is almost in the same line as Redman. However, double bass and drums are (6-8) behind Redman.

Second Best Method:
Compare concert videos with audio. For example, if you watch Tony Bennett MTV unplugged video and try to compare with CD audio reproduced by your system. Tony is little left to the center of the stage, piano is right behind him, double bass is approx. 8-10 behind piano. Drums are about 8-10 apart from double bass, they are placed to the right on the stage in the same line.

Third Best Method:
Obtain info. Related to the venue / studio compare with recording. Some of the labels (Stereophile, Reference Recordings, Chesky, ECM, Linn, Naim to name a few) provide recording venues photographs and mic placement info also. Compare this info. to the reproduced sound in your setup.

Nasser, I personally do not consider myself as a reviewer, this post here is to share a few experiences / thoughts. The directions are from listeners sweet spot.

 

[msagar]

Once you finalize your initial setup considering methods I mentioned, you could transport yourself to the venue experiencing soundstage, imaging, depth etc.

 

[mohamednaseer]

hi msagar,

I accept what your suggestion to attend concert.But this is not possible for all,due to that i have started thread to get info about the titles.Than we can test in our system.

Hello Bhagwan,

I have one drums cd.In that recording i can identify the height in the recording.You know that drums has three places one drum is placed down which is played by leg and middle part of drum and final one is in top .So when play the drums we can feel the height playing on the top portion.

 

[msagar]

Naseer,

That is why I mentioned two more methods I follow.
I would recommend Stereophile Test CDs to start with.

 

[matbhuvi]

In Darthnut's review of Stax SR-007 in head-fi, he has given very detailed explanation of soundstage. Even though it is based on headphone, i haven't seen a better post/article regarding that yet.

Warning: It is very very long.

 

[square_wave]

The following basic hygiene factors affects sound staging a lot;

1. Loudspeaker placement
2. The quality of the room
3. Your listening position

Once you have achieved the above, with the right kind of setup, you can take your system to a completely different level. Phase coherent and time aligned loudspeakers, correct cables, high quality digital to analogue conversion, well matched electronics which can bring the performers into the room.

Bad combinations of electronics / speakers / cables can just offend you although you will hear a great sound stage / layers etc..

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

In Darthnut's review of Stax SR-007 in head-fi, he has given very detailed explanation of soundstage.

In another thread, I have been talking about how important our imagination is in turning the 2-D stereo illusion into an even bigger 3-D illusion. Experience, as written by msagar, helps us to know what our "high-fidelity" system is supposed to highly-true to. It is a two-way thing, though, because it also allows us to provide ourselves with clues as to how to construct that image in our heads. These clues, and our imaginations, are a vital part of enjoying music.

I've barely started the article: I think it is going to take a late night session! Or two!