Speaker cable comparison - good read

[s_sachin]

The Audio Society of Minnesota Conducts Cable Comparison Tests | Stereophile.com

 

[alpha1]

Since no statistical tests of significance have been applied to the results it is not possible to demonstrate that one set of cables was found to be superior to any others in an objective sense.

/end of thread

 

[s_sachin]

music .. objective ??

Anyway i like this

/end of thread

 

[alpha1]

music .. objective ??

Anyway i like this

Yes, why not?
Objectiveness is the only thing that separates logic/rationality from blind faith.

 

[BLASTO]

Full Disclosure

As guided by Murphys Law, one of the two M-300 MkII amps blew a fuse early during test #3. Rather than attempting to determine the cause of the failure, it was decided to switch to a back-up amplifier, an ARC D-115MkII. This created a 15 minute downtime period followed by several quick attempts to adjust levels and balance to match that of prior tests. The second half of test #3 and all remaining tests were done using this second amplifier.

They changed the amp in the middle of the session and expect the results to be accurate??
Iam begining to think that there are group of bafoons sitting in stereophile..

 

[s_sachin]

Yes, why not?
Objectiveness is the only thing that separates logic/rationality from blind faith.

Agree

And the process followed in the article does seem shady.

however i wonder how accurate our findings from component comparisons in meets and get togethers are Its always been "ears" atleast the one's i have been a part of.

but i am sure folks have gone to scientific lengths !

 

[BLASTO]

however i wonder how accurate our findings from component comparisons in meets and get togethers are Its always been "ears" atleast the one's i have been a part of.

But atleast 90% times, all the people in the room like the same set of equipments given the setup, room effects etc in all the meets we had till now.

Wonder if subjective is any value.

 

[Shivam]

But atleast 90% times, all the people in the room like the same set of equipments given the setup, room effects etc in all the meets we had till now.

Wonder if subjective is any value.

Peer pressure or Group pressure also influences the results.

 

[alpha1]

^ something that usually happens at the shop!
The seller tries to put an idea that he can hear the difference day and night, and you SHOULD hear it too ...

 

[Decibel]

Iam begining to think that there are group of bafoons sitting in stereophile..

This seems a unfair as Stereophile is not claiming anything. They are just reporting an even managed and published by the Audio Society of Minnesota.

Cheers

 

[arj]

This seems a unfair as Stereophile is not claiming anything. They are just reporting an even managed and published by the Audio Society of Minnesota.

Cheers

exactly.
in fact the article starts with this quote

Each monthly issue of Stereophile includes an updated calendar of all the different hi-fi events taking place across the United States. We also maintain this calendar on our Facebook Events page. One of the events that really caught our eye was the Blind Cable Comparison Tests performed by the Audio Society of Minnesota, which took place on Tuesday, April 17th. Here is the report as submitted by members of the Audio Society of Minnesota. The Society reported record crowds for this event. Hopefully, this spirit of questioning, discovery, and fun will spread to other audio events across the country

 

[square_wave]

Yes, why not?
Objectiveness is the only thing that separates logic/rationality from blind faith.

Alpha,

I see that you post a lot about blind tests. In principle most audiophiles do not have a problem with test something blind. They have a problem with how it is usually done. The usual blind testing protocol is not something most audiophiles will relish. If the blind testing brigade is open to trying out different versions of it, then many of us are game.

One reason why audiophiles go with their ears:

According to the usual blind testing protocol,

- You cannot distinguish between a cheap/random reciever and a high end amplifier
- You cannot distinguish between a cheap dvd player and a state of the art source

Do this test:

Get a very experienced audiophile to agree to the test. Assume he has a super high end system which is intimately familiar with. For the test, lets imagine that the gear is situated in another room. Only the speakers are in the listening room. The wire comes in through holes in the walls. Now replace the gentlemans high end amplifier and state of the art source (lets say a pair of Halcro or Boulder monoblocks and a Meitner or DCS stack) with a cheap power amp and a dvd player.

Change the gear without the knowledge of the gentleman. Let him listen to this system for a week. Next week change back to his original gear. So each test will be for fortnight. Keep doing this for some five months. The music will always be played at a certain db to avoid level match issues. So you end up doing the test ten times.

I will bet my last rupee that the gentleman will identify and like his original gear ten out of ten times.

You can extend this test to Mp3 vs Redbook resolution also. Keep his original system untouched and switch to MP3 and Redbook, each for a week with a list of songs to listen to for the week. Always level matched playback.

What do you think ? Will he be confused ?

 

[alpha1]

Alpha,

I see that you post a lot about blind tests. In principle most audiophiles do not have a problem with test something blind. They have a problem with how it is usually done. The usual blind testing protocol is not something most audiophiles will relish. If the blind testing brigade is open to trying out different versions of it, then many of us are game.

One reason why audiophiles go with their ears:

According to the usual blind testing protocol,

- You cannot distinguish between a cheap/random reciever and a high end amplifier
- You cannot distinguish between a cheap dvd player and a state of the art source

Do this test:

Get a very experienced audiophile to agree to the test. Assume he has a super high end system which is intimately familiar with. For the test, lets imagine that the gear is situated in another room. Only the speakers are in the listening room. The wire comes in through holes in the walls. Now replace the gentlemans high end amplifier and state of the art source (lets say a pair of Halcro or Boulder monoblocks and a Meitner or DCS stack) with a cheap power amp and a dvd player.

Change the gear without the knowledge of the gentleman. Let him listen to this system for a week. Next week change back to his original gear. So each test will be for fortnight. Keep doing this for some five months. The music will always be played at a certain db to avoid level match issues. So you end up doing the test ten times.

I will bet my last rupee that the gentleman will identify and like his original gear ten out of ten times.

You can extend this test to Mp3 vs Redbook resolution also. Keep his original system untouched and switch to MP3 and Redbook, each for a week with a list of songs to listen to for the week. Always level matched playback.

What do you think ? Will he be confused ?

I understand the point that you are making about listening for a brief period vs listening for and extended period.

I am all game for it, in fact I am surprised that such things have not taken place yet.

However, the point in favor of brief (how brief = few hours, minutes?) is that if you can discern a difference it should be audible instantaneously, and if the difference is self-suggestion by brain, then it happen over a period of time.

But of course, if it is blind testing, then we don't care about self-suggestion ( it will automatically come out in the test results)

So yes, your point is great one, and needs to be taken to practice.

 

[square_wave]

@Alpha,

These kind of test usually does not happen formally ! But variations of this have been done by many audiophiles who have an open mind. My cd player has two sets of outputs. Once I connected two interconnects (both connected to my preamp) without knowing which is connected to which. Then, I used a friend to switch between them only the friend knew which interconnect was playing during each play. Each time we played, we played an entire song I am very familiar with.

We did this with two sets of interconnects. With one set I was thoroughly confused. With the other one, I was able to tell which one was which each time.

I am sure these kinds of tests can be done. Many audiophiles will not bother though since this is a hobby. If people are game, it is something very worthwhile.

 

[alpha1]

^ the only Issue I see with "informal" ones is that there is a tremendous peer pressure!

Now, that you have written about this, I remember that I too did such things with f00bar, various other audio players, sound card, onboard sound card, kernel streaming etc. ...