Vocals sound slightly less than the music

[amit11]

Hi Friends,

Recently I have bought new stereo speakers, Tannoy Mercury V4i. Amplifier is Yamaha AS500.

The first pair of speakers i got, had to be replaced after listening for one month because I observed there was some tonal difference between the left and right speaker. One was more bright than the other.

After replacement, that issue does not seem to be there.

However now i feel while listening that the "Vocals" are 'slightly' subdued compared to the music. i.e. the volume of vocals seems to be less than the overall music. This is observable particularly at lower volumes. When I increase the volume, that feeling goes away. But still at the back of my mind there seems to be an un-ease that vocals are slightly sub-dued. This feeling was not there before the replacement.

When I compare the same songs played in my car music system or earphones it seems normal. Hence not sure if there could be something wrong in the speakers.


Regards,
Amit.

 

[Audio_Freek]

Amit,

The speakers would sounds fine mostly after the Burn-in Hour. Since you have the new speakers leave them for say 40-50 Hours of run and observer later.

The issue with tone should get rid-off by the time.
SO wait and Listen

 

[amit11]

Hi Audio_Freek,

Actually this second set of speakers are there with me since 4 weeks and I have run them many hours. So break-in has already happened.


Regards,
Amit.

 

[thampi]

i think the problem is with your amp.i used it once,it was too bright to my liking

 

[krisballa]

@amit11

I think Yamaha A-S500 is the culprit . Even I felt that when I paired the same amp to Sonodyne 2605 speakers and the sound was bright and fatigue.

 

[amit11]

@thampi
@krisballa

Do you mean to say that after using AS500, you found the vocals had lesser volume as compared to the overall music? (The problem which I am referring)

OR you are just saying that the sound was bright? (and no issue with the vocals volume)

 

[prem]

Pull your speakers further out from your back wall and see if the problem goes away. It could be the bass riding on the mids

 

[Hari Iyer]

Altering the left and right speaker towing by a few degrees also helps to tame or increase the mids and the highs.

 

[Audio_Freek]

In General Yamaha are of Bit bright side so if we pair them with Sonodyne,Polk ,Jbl They might sound Open Bright. But Tannoy is not in the league of Bright speakers i Guess.

As Prem Suggested,(Since the speakers are Rear Ported) You could try giving some space from the wall and test first.

Then check the amp setting, For example the Loudness switch, Bass Trible adjustment and try running in Pure direct Mode.Since there same amp with same model speakers were sounding fine and since the replacement was made the vocal is missing, there is chance of some adjustment made to the Amp meantime.

Also just recall what was happen and what got changed during the swap of the speakers.

 

[shibashis]

Perhaps it is the nature of the amplifier, although I did not find it lacking in vocals when I heard it (with Yamaha speakers though).
Pairing is so very vital I can tell from my experience, my Ushers sound quite different with Marantz than with Cambridge Audio, equally good but different.
Did you hear the speakers with Yamaha before you bought them?
There are quite a few factors at play here I suppose, what is your source of music?

 

[krisballa]

@amit11

because the sound is bright and on the face, the vocals may be going behind the instruments... it sounded like this to my ears. I suggest try the amp with some other warm sounding speakers like Tannoy ones as Audio_Freek suggested.

There is so much different in sound between the Yamaha A-S500 and marantz PM-8003 when paired with Sonodyne 2605v3 speakers.

 

[prepress]

I have used Yamaha A-S500 few years back and found that it is slightly at brighter side (it should be natural), that was sounding like more vocal than musical. After that I used Yamaha A-550 which is melodious (Up in For Sale section). Now using my 3rd Yamaha A-X900.

As I have used three Yamaha amplifiers, I have noticed that the tonel quality of LOUDNESS control varies in every Yamaha amplifier.

With the speaker positioning/angle adjustments, you can play with VOLUME and LOUDNESS control as well. (e.g. loudness control at 6-9 o'colck position) then increasing the volume etc.

 

[arj]

As a lot of FMs have mentioned, please do try out different placement options before you do anything drastic like upgrading. glass in windows/shutters etc can excite higher frequencies to relatively push down the Midrange

Placement near walls (back and side) can also increase the bass and that combination can make the Midrange subdued

thirdly your own seating position can change the sound. My suggestion is to try out the Cardas or Audiophysics method of placement (you can google it) even if temporarily to see if that solves this problem. if it does not only then do you need to change one of the components as they may not be in Synergy

Your primary problem is that you have this problem at low volumes and this goes away at high volume.

From what I can see, your speaker is 91 dB and your amp is 85W@8 . for most average rooms this speaker will not need more than 20W ever and even if you double it for dynamic needs, it still needs only 40W.
most amps (excluding those with a Class A Bias) do not do well when the power requirement is low..they start doing well, from my approximation, at 20-30% of their rated load. that may be one reason as well

BTW does this improve after the amp runs continuously for 45 mins or so ?

 

[hydra]

@amit11, what is your source? CDP or media player or PC or Phone or something else?

Whatever your source is, can you try playing music from another source and see if the problem goes away? (But please do let us know what you're currently using as your source).

Are you using a 3.5mm to RCA/3.5mm cable to send the source signal to your amp? If you are, do make sure that the 3.5mm jack is inserted completely into the socket.

I remember that you'd posted a thread earlier that mentioned more or less the same issue: http://www.hifivision.com/speakers/55142-center-image-vocals.html

--> It sounds as if some frequency cancellation is happening and vocals are not very clear.
--> The brightness in vocals get reduced and i can feel some/little amount of warmth/bass has entered in the vocals.
--> The vocals feel as if we are hearing from a headphone, and don't sound as if they are coming from front. Not exact figures but around 50% from front and 50% inside the head.

Since you've changed the speakers since the last time, the issue is likely to be with the placement of the speakers in your room, or the cables (faulty/damaged), or with the source. I really don't think the issue is with the amp, unless it is faulty in some way.

 

[amit11]

Thanks for the replies

@Audio_Freek
No adjustment made to Amp. I always run in pure direct mode.
Also had positioned speakers away from real wall. In fact they already are.


@shibashis
Yes ofcourse, I had listened to the combo many times before purchasing. But since I was new to hifi stereo, I possibly might not have listened it in this detailed perspective. During auditioning I definitely used to lower volume and listen but again I think I did not have this feeling/un-ease at that time.

Source of music is ipod having mp3 -->head phone out. The same during auditioning.

@arj
Can't exactly recall if there is a significant improvement after 45 minutes. My answe r would be 'no improvement' i guess.

@hydra
source is ipod with mp3 --> head phone out [same source during all the auditioning]
3.5 mm jack and others are inserted properly, no issues in that.
Thanks for finding and mentioning my previous issue. That particular point about frequency cancellation and sounding like headphone --> that I feel is no more exactly.


General:
Is it possible that the speakers are having some fault?

 

[prepress]

ok, as the source is iPod, please mention which iPod you have.
If it is 6th-7th Gen classic (120 or 160GB), then definitely you should try another source.
You can google about iPod classic sound.

 

[amit11]

@prepress

Ipod is Ipod Nano 5th Generation.
However I have also tried many times with my other apple products also i.e. iphone, ipad, another ipod, and i get the same feeling of low vocals. So in my opinion source cannot be the cause of this issue.

 

[sound_cycle]

Hi Amit11,

I am a newly minted expert on things audio.

I got a set of shiny speakers that got good reviews on hfv, a amp with a DAC that was reasonable, hooked it up to a source that could play flacs which I burned from my modest collection of CDs, poured myself some whisky, and sat down to listen

And was completely disappointed.

I got better speakers therefore and whaddya know things did not improve that dramatically. However this time I had listened to my stuff at a decent audition and had read up more too, to realize that while stuff burn in, electronics are important that the room I was listening to music in was not all that kind and conducive to my musical expectations.

I'd think (see the disclaimer above first sentence) for your issue, room treatment may be necessary. As also careful positioning of your speakers - try the LEDR cockroaches maybe ? I had the phantom centre dip well below where I'd have liked it to be. A large sheet of glass and a nice flat ceiling and shiny floor ensured that, look out for those gotchas. If possible see if you get REW to fix things for you - i am hoping to be able to do that some day.

Maybe you should post a pic of your room and seating to get better advice from FMs here

ciao
gr