Wharfedale 9.5 with Denon 1611 - Volume levels

[sridhar78]

Hi,

I recently got a Denon 1611 amplifier and have paired it with the Wharfedale 9.5 diamond fronts, 9.CS center and DFS surrounds. I am using a Sony Blu ray S 370 as the source.

I have set up the Amp using the Manual setup (yet to try Audyssey).

Its been about 2-3 days since the system is setup. I find that I have to raise the volume to -10 dB (0 dB is the reference and goes up to +18 dB I guess) on my amp for movies and music to get decent volume. Is this normal?

Is the Denon (110W @ 6 ohms) finding it hard to drive the speakers (150W @ 6 ohms)?

Is it okay to run the amplifier at this volume over long periods? Is anyone using a similar setup? If yes, what are your observations?

Best regards,
Sridhar

 

[swami]

Hi,

Is it okay to run the amplifier at this volume over long periods? Is anyone using a similar setup? If yes, what are your observations?

Best regards,
Sridhar

Hi Sridhar,

I am having a not so different setup (considering stereo-only). I use 1611 with 9.1 pair. Just that much. Fed by DVDp. I went to my dealer asking what is the volume level at which you give demo and he said usually -15 through -10 and advised that one must only take care while crossing the zero mark. Can anyone clarify why the amp starts from -80 when one can only enjoy music at -30 or so?

My system is also sounding a little low. While I can hear some sounds at lower volumes, I can "listen" to music only from -40 through -35. And for a better audio treat I have to play it at -25 through -15. I recently shifted from analog RCA input to coaxial audio input and (maybe I am incorrect) I am hearing a little (3 to 5db) improvement on overall volume.

Ultimately, I do have the same question as you have.

1. Is the amp underpowered to drive 9.5 or even 9.1?

2. Is it ok to play the amp at -20 through -05 all through the listening time?

Gurus, please advise!

 

[Asterix]

Hi,

Is the Denon (110W @ 6 ohms) finding it hard to drive the speakers (150W @ 6 ohms)?

I have a 1910 paired with diamond 9.6, and had a similar experience. Things improved on increasing the source volume level to +6db...with this I play most music and movies at -20db and find the output satisfactory. Try increasing source level and see if it helps.

I noticed a further improvement on bi amping the 9.6 with the spare rear surround channels in the 1910...not sure if you can do the same on the 1610..

 

[pannags]

Hi,


Is the Denon (110W @ 6 ohms) finding it hard to drive the speakers (150W @ 6 ohms)?

Best regards,
Sridhar

From the hundreds of threads I've read, I understood that its a good idea to have the Amp/AVR drive speakers of a lower wattage, at a given rated impedance.

Of course, these discussions are not conclusive, but its quite evident that if you crank up the volume in the quest of driving power-hungry speakers, you could end up with clipping.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Pannags

 

[sridhar78]

Hi All,

Did some more research on this topic and realised that I should have done this before buying the speaker .. Anyways its a learning experience

The Wharfedale 9.5 has a sensitivity/efficiency of 88dB/1 watt/1m.
This means that to create a SPL (Sound pressure Level) of 88dB measured at a distance of 1m from the speaker, it needs 1W of input.

Every 3dB increase in SPL which effectively means doubling up the volume, requires twice the amount of power from the amp.
So, for the 9.5, the table below shows the power required for the corresponding SPL to be created.

Did some more research and found that even with a 1911 I will not be able to drive the speakers at lower volumes/power.

dB Power required
--- -----------------------
88 1W
91 2W
94 4W
97 8W
100 16W
103 32W
106 64W
109 128W

@ Swami the 9.1 has a sensitivty of 86dB, so the math will be similar

Denon 1611 is rated at 110 W@ 6 ohms
the 1911 is rated at 125 W @ 6 ohms

From the above calculations, 106dB is the maximum level one can reach with the wharfedale 9.5 and Denon 1611 or 1911.

So I feel that my choice of the amp is quite okay.

Hence, it looks like, more the sensitivity of the speakers, less power is needed to drive them.
Speakers like Klipsch which have sensitivity of close to 100 dB can be driven by low powered Amplifiers as well -> implying more cost

Regards,
-Sridhar

 

[bluescorp]

Hii Sridhar / Swami /others

thanks for the enlightment on the subject. Its important as i am planning to buy the same combo i.e 1611 with 9.5's.

In the circumstances, please advise shall i move ahead or look for other speaker brands like polk, clipsch etc though budget is a constraint.

I am actually more of a movie buff (80:20). Will be using wharfedale for centres and sorrounds as well. However for sub i have decided for Polk sw110.

Please advise ASAP. Will 9.5 and 1611 be a pleasure or concern

 

[ranojoy]

My setup is similar, though the AVR is slightly more powerful. I never exceed -10; most of the time -15 seems to be OK.

AFAIK, the -10db means "10db lower than reference volume". When you run Audyssey, the software evaluates and "fixes" the REFERENCE level for the given amp + the given speaker set + the existing room acoustics / reflections etc. This means that for that particular given set of variables, 0db is the volume level at which you will (theoretically) get the sound that you are intended to hear. Even when Audyssey has not been run, the amp will still fix its own reference level according to some thumb rule, but these calculations will be vastly inaccurate compared to Audyssey calculations.

The actual level that you choose while listeting, e.g. -10db etc, is the PREFERENCE level at which you feel comfortable. The choice is yours.

-10 on your rig at normal levels is quite OK, IMO, even for long term use. But "transients" during movie watching may pose a problem. Read this as well
http://www.hifivision.com/surround-...ve-wharfedale-diamond-9-5-a-2.html#post175162

 

[bluescorp]

Thax

so you mean i can go ahead with 1611 and 9.5? or shall i have to get 1910 to make the 9.5s work out a bit fairer.

 

[Asterix]

Thax

so you mean i can go ahead with 1611 and 9.5? or shall i have to get 1910 to make the 9.5s work out a bit fairer.

Suggest you audition both..in my opinion, some spare power never hurts...particularly for transients in movies...1910/1911 gets my vote....also in last years version, the 1910 had better video processing circuitry than the 1610...you may want to check this out too

 

[venkatcr]

so you mean i can go ahead with 1611 and 9.5? or shall i have to get 1910 to make the 9.5s work out a bit fairer.

I would suggest you get the 1911.

Cheers

 

[ranojoy]

I would suggest you get the 1911.

+1. Exactly what I was trying to hint at !!

Anyhow, if a good deal is available for 1910, even that would be acceptable, I guess. Unless 3D compatibility is a major issue.

 

[idlebrain]

+1. Exactly what I was trying to hint at !!

Anyhow, if a good deal is available for 1910, even that would be acceptable, I guess. Unless 3D compatibility is a major issue.

When it comes to receivers, there is no need to spend extra bucks for 3D..IMO. Most recent 3D BD players are coming with 2 HDMI (1 for 3D Video and 1 For Audio).

 

[aventhu]

Always buy a powerful Avr/Amp. Speakers should be of equal wattage as the amp. Not higher. If lower then better. But with lower wattage speakers never crank up to the full. Invest more in the amp. Speakers can be upgraded later to enjoy more of one's amp/avr.

 

[bluescorp]

Thx Guys,

although im quite learned now but due to budget constarint i might be sticking to 1611. Please confirm how bad is that considering i will be mostly watching movies and want 9.5s to do full justice.

Shall i change the speaker brand to klipsch or monitor or polks. Is 1611 a very low powered avr at practical levels.

Any alternate matching speakers?

 

[Kittu]

Thx Guys,

although im quite learned now but due to budget constarint i might be sticking to 1611. Please confirm how bad is that considering i will be mostly watching movies and want 9.5s to do full justice.

Shall i change the speaker brand to klipsch or monitor or polks. Is 1611 a very low powered avr at practical levels.

Any alternate matching speakers?

IF you are going to mostly watch movies why dont you get Deftech pro cinema 600/ Paradigm cinema ct 90 / Wharf moviestar 70 / Energy classic take 5.1 package ?

 

[venkatcr]

Any alternate matching speakers?

If you MUST buy the 1611, look for speakers with a max power rating of 75 watts.

Cheers

 

[swami]

If you MUST buy the 1611, look for speakers with a max power rating of 75 watts.

So, considering one has to go for 1611 for budget constraints, how would you rate Wharfdale 9.1 as an option?

 

[anuragn]

So, considering one has to go for 1611 for budget constraints, how would you rate Wharfdale 9.1 as an option?

I've recently bought 1611 paired with Wharfe 10.1's and reinforced with MX.10 subwoofer (also wharf). Did not buy center and surrounds due to budget constraints.
Initially, the setup sounded a bit low on volume, but after running audissey setup, now its ok. Usually I keep volume between 30-45 (on scale of 0-100). I would recommend this setup unless you have a largish room, but still do not finalise without audition.

 

[bluescorp]

Well,
9.1 is again a bookshelf. My intention is to get floorstanders thats why 9.5s. but going by the advises herein, i think i have to make more savings to buy some jumbo receiver to crank them! Well i heard somewhere (may be sridhar) refered that his 1611 is doing well with 9.5s. I dont know im so confused.

 

[Kittu]

Well,
9.1 is again a bookshelf. My intention is to get floorstanders thats why 9.5s. but going by the advises herein, i think i have to make more savings to buy some jumbo receiver to crank them! Well i heard somewhere (may be sridhar) refered that his 1611 is doing well with 9.5s. I dont know im so confused.

Why dont you audition that combo ? see if it drives well ....