What is good music

[ssf]

First of all, my apologies to HiFiVision for starting a new thread on the very same subject that has already started. My line of thought is a bit different from the existing thread and I don't want to corrupt that thread with my ramblings. This thread can be conveniently ignored or taken as ramblings of an old tipsy gent who is basically indulging himself.

What is good music ?

I am watching 'Eric Claption and Co guitar festival, courtesy Reliance Digital iConcerts recorded last night.

Clapton, BB King, John Mayer, Buddy guy, Sheryl Crow, Jeff Beck and Tal Wilkenfeld , to name a few.

I have on more than a few occasions blurted out without any fear of repercussions that good music is that very music which one likes (Pardon the grammar, spelling and irrational thought. It comes as a package. Pick one, get 10 free)

A couple of decades plus a decade ago, I thought that Heavy Metal was great music, thought that it was the best music and that I would listen to it till, well, till my last dying breath.

Well, it has been a while since I have consciously tuned to Heavy Metal. So, what changed ? Has Heavy Metal as of late become um, bad music or did I just grow older, gotten (insert good grammar here) a lot more boring and a bit more senile ?

I was reading something that someone in this forum had stated, someone whom I wish would post more that he normally does, that the drummer was considered as a time keeper. This got me thinking. Not easy for some one who is blessed with a very little grey cells. I was always under the impression that the drums introduced the rhythm. But then on a closer listen, I realised that the rhythm was in the music and not in the drums.

As usual, I have more questions than answers. Does good music change with time and/or our age ? Or is good music that such music which transcidents time and um, our age ? And if so, what music is that one, one that one which um, transcidents, etc etc ? One wonders under the influence.

And for everything else, there is always Kolaveri di which puts a simile on my face which it comes on FM when I am driving

 

[jk_chaos]

well to put things straight, good music makes ya feel good.. Let it be Tom arraya screamin on the top of his lungs, Chris Barnes growling as deep as he can or Eric Clapton or John Mayer singin softly its just that good music should make ya feel good.. I completely disagree on the drummer thing that he is just a time keeper, certain genres have the drummers dominating the pace of the song, there are songs where the drum rolls or rather the fills make you go woooh!!
I have seen 50+yr old men at Heavy metal concerts and young kids too.. So your age never is the deciding thing, as for my experience most of the people i knew who deviated from heavy metal after a period of time were musicians that too from reputed bands, who just felt listenin to music with complex time signatures, and stuff would make them better musicians..A very sad thing though..
For me personally the song, the lyric and the way it is presented to me matters and thats why i love bands like Pantera, Megadeth, Slayer, Metallica etc.. I mean dont ya get bored of the same i love you songs, describin love over and over again!!
These bands talk of raw life, what we see and fail to see around us, that too brought out the way it deserves to be..
if you still tap your feet to a song that you have long forgotten then yes it still is there somewhere deep in you, not that you dislike it

 

[ssf]

well to put things straight, good music makes ya feel good.. Let it be Tom arraya screamin on the top of his lungs, Chris Barnes growling as deep as he can or Eric Clapton or John Mayer singin softly its just that good music should make ya feel good.. I completely disagree on the drummer thing that he is just a time keeper, certain genres have the drummers dominating the pace of the song, there are songs where the drum rolls or rather the fills make you go woooh!!
I have seen 50+yr old men at Heavy metal concerts and young kids too.. So your age never is the deciding thing, as for my experience most of the people i knew who deviated from heavy metal after a period of time were musicians that too from reputed bands, who just felt listenin to music with complex time signatures, and stuff would make them better musicians..A very sad thing though..
For me personally the song, the lyric and the way it is presented to me matters and thats why i love bands like Pantera, Megadeth, Slayer, Metallica etc.. I mean dont ya get bored of the same i love you songs, describin love over and over again!!
These bands talk of raw life, what we see and fail to see around us, that too brought out the way it deserves to be..
if you still tap your feet to a song that you have long forgotten then yes it still is there somewhere deep in you, not that you dislike it

Our music systems are very expensive but passion for music is still as free as it gets.

I have little understanding of music or music systems. Saying that is the easy part. The question that I invariably ask myself is 'Should I have a better understanding of both ?' If so, to what purpose ? Ignorance is bliss or is it ?

I had tuned in to, um, what else, iConcerts the day before today and there was this telecast on Piano Masters. Some pianists mentioned, Art Taylor the greatest and most technically gifted jazz musicians of all time (I wouldn't know) Swing years, Teddy Wilson and the legendary Duke Ellington, Art Taylor and who else, um, Thelonious Monk.

Whom did I get to listen to on the show let me tell you nice people. Dave Brubeck and Billy Taylor. Let me again let you know that I have no intimate knowledge of Jazz Music. So what I am about to say is from an amateur music lovers point of view.

Dave Brubeck in the interview says, 'We did not know that we were inventing cool jazz, we were just playing, the critics said that'

And then they start playing

The first few bars, heavenly !!! and then the music changes. I find that when I am watching these much respected elderly musicians playing music, I am not really aware that I am watching them on my cheap plasma TV or my less than accurate music system. I find that my feet resting comfortably on my lounge chair is moving frantically on it's own accord to the music. Absolute Vodka that I was having at that time might have helped to a certain extent but I think it was mostly the music. Jazz drummers I realised with little faculties available, made very little or light use of the snare drum. It was all about cymbals and a bit of the bass drum. Enjoyed it, I really did.

The next on the list was 'Jeff Beck Live at Ronnie Scott's' as I still had some vodka left to finish. Music played very softly as it was quite late and my family had retired for the night. The first thing that I noticed was that this music started with the snare drum being actively used. Again old people playing great music. (With the exception of Tal Wilkenfeld, with reference to old that is. She is great on the bass guitar). I got the impression that this group, as with the earlier, was all about the music. On the whole a very enjoyable night, with my average AV equipment. A night for the old by the old ? Seemed like it.

Not played on the show but nonetheless.

Dave Brubeck "Besame Mucho" - YouTube


Jeff Beck's Indian Influences anyone ?


Jeff Beck - Nadia - (Live at Ronnie Scott's) - YouTube

PS: Thank you, Reliance Digital, for the music.

 

[square_wave]

At any point in life, what makes sense for you is good music for you at that point of time.

 

[moktan]

Some pianists mentioned, Art Taylor the greatest and most technically gifted jazz musicians of all time (I wouldn't know) Swing years, Teddy Wilson and the legendary Duke Ellington, Art Taylor and who else, um, Thelonious Monk.

as far as my knowledge goes , Art Taylor was a bebop drummer. not the greatest though. some would rather give that honour to Buddy Rich, who was a virtuoso. but I feel it is unfortunate to bring in Guinness Book of Records type hyperbole into something as nuanced as music.
However Art Tatum's virtuosity as pianist, the speed and clarity of his execution etc etc is reportedly not surpassed by anyone in jazz or classical music.(His Tiger Rag is an oft quoted example.) However a grouse that some have against Art is that he was a showman and sometimes went a little over the top with his exhibitionism and his genius.

However if one wanted something more subtle, clinically precise, less baroque then other very influential pianists that come to mind are , Lennie Tristano and Bill Evans.
There is little of Lennie available but his Descent into Maelstrom and Live at Confucius Restaurant, may be easily available (you know where).
Lennie was a teacher and a visionary who long ago anticipated some of the developments that jazz would take in the future. And it did.
sorry for going OP.

 

[ssf]

as far as my knowledge goes , Art Taylor was a bebop drummer. not the greatest though.

However Art Tatum's virtuosity as pianist, the speed and clarity of his execution etc etc is reportedly not surpassed by anyone in jazz or classical music.

I think the commentator got his musicians names mixed up. Looks like Art Tatum to me.

sorry for going OP.

Don't be. I get this urge to talk about music sometimes despite knowing very little about it. Posts like yours am sure will help a lot of us know a bit more about music in general and Jazz in particular.

 

[ajay124]

Jazz pianists:

Art Tatum, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Fats Waller, Thelonious Monk, Oscar Peterson, Bud Powell, Dave Brubeck, McCoy Tyner, Bill Evans, Chick Correa, Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul....

Classical pianists:

Sviatoslav Richter, Emil Gilels, Vladimir Horowitz , Arthur Rubinstein, Maurizio Pollini, Frederich Gulda, Vladimir Ashkenazy, Martha Argerich, Mitsuko Uchida, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, Alfred Cortot, Wilhelm Kempff, Artur Schnabel, Stephen Kovacevich, Walter Gieseking, Glenn Gould, Dinu Lipatti, Maria Joao Pires, Daniel Barenboim, Alfred Brendel, Rosalyn Tureck, Andre Previn, Gyorgy Cziffra, Angela Hewitt, Mikhail Pletnev, Ivo Pogoreli?, Evgeny Kissin, Jorge Bolet....

 

[jaudere]

I think no music is good or bad. It is our opinion which categorizes it into good /bad. Every type of music needs a mood, time. The way we talk about synergy between msamplifier/speaker/cd player, we need to consider the time of the day, happenings during day, company , atmosphere etc.

 

[ajay124]

Sunil

There is no universal definition of good or bad music. We tend to label the music we like as 'good' music, and the music we don't like as 'bad' music. Thus Hotel California or Dark Side Of The Moon may be considered 'good' music by some and bland and boring by others. Both camps would have their own reasons for labeling these iconic rock albums as good or bad.

I remember reading interviews of Simon Rattle, the principal conductor of the Berliner Philharmoniker, where he speaks about his lifelong passion for the music of Gustav Mahler. A passion which was ignited when he was a young lad in Liverpool. The curious fact which struck me was that he was born in Liverpool in 1955. He grew up in a time and place which was reverberating with the immensely popular music of the fab four. I have never come across any reference to the Beatles made by Sir Simon Rattle. I wonder whether he was ever under a Beatles spell. Did he as a teenager ever clutch a fresh copy of Sgt. Pepper and with trembling fingers place it on a turntable ? Or did he spend his pocket money on Bruno Walter or Leonard Bernstein's Mahler recordings? Would a Beatles fan consider Mahler as good music? Would a Mahler fan consider the Beatles, Stones or Dylan as good music? Do fans of rock and classical music live in the same or different spheres of the musical planet?

Simon Rattle on Gustav Mahler Gustav Mahler 2010 2011

Duke Ellington, Oscar Peterson and Thelonious Monk are extremely 'good' pianists. But after listening to Sviatoslav Richter, Emil Gilels, Vladimir Horowitz and Martha Argerich I feel that perhaps the extremely 'good' jazz pianists are not in the same league as the truly 'great' classical pianists. Ultimately whether rap, rock, jazz or classical music can be considered good or bad is all in our minds. And the windmills of our mind are forever rotating in the wind

 

[Hiten]

Does good music change with time and/or our age ? Or is good music that such music which transcidents time and um, our age ? And if so, what music is that one,

A human being should evolve as time passes. And amongst other things music is no exception. Any "good" work needs creativity/hard work/genius/refinement. So when you get bored with rock/kolaveri di*, you should try listening to Indian/Western classical or Jazz etc. There was a thread started by me for initiation of newbies like me in to classical music by way of popular compositions.
Having said that please don't have any impression of me as evolved human being . I mostly listen to everything from pop to rock, jazz to Classical, Hindi/Marathi/English/Gujrati etc. I guess once in a while you can splurge on popular music just like sometimes we eat Vadapav/Burger/Pizzas from regular 'nourishing' food like Dal, Roti and Rice. :lol:

Or is good music that such music which transcidents time and um, our age ?

of course good music transcends time. Who remembers 2011 top 10? No one. I doubt even singers remember them nowadays.

*Rhythm and repetition is the easiest way to make a song popular.

Regards

 

[ssf]

Thanks for participating, Gentlemen. A bit busy right now but will be back with a lot more questions.

 

[kumarab]

Post #8 by "jaudere" is probably the most apt reply you're ever going to get on this matter.

 

[sbg]

What is good music?

choose that best fits you.( my personal :indifferent14: opinion )

1.If you are a businessman
- the sound from all the potential customers wallet - cling cing and supplement by the "low frequency" of the paper/cloth rustle.
( non-businessman cant hear them !!!)
2.If you are parent/grandparent
- the early moring crying of you baby next to you
( dont tell me you are annoyed - I'll beat you up!!!)
3.If you are in love
- every whiff of your partners pressence
be it his/her touch
be it his/her drap touching you
be it his/her attention for you, never knowing what for.
...
4.If you are a student
- every other appreciation that you get from your parents, teachers
5.If you are a employee
- the days before and the day boss transfer your hard earned cash.
- appreciation from you peers and your Boss.
6.If you are an egostic person
- every time the persons you want - licks your as** and praises you because you wanted him too.
7.If you are a bully
- have you ever beaten anyone - you should know how well you felt!.


8.If you are ______
- you very well know what you want will keep your "Mind" smilling and your "Mouth" shut.
- peacefull and a good nights sleep ,knowing you want another day the "same day".


"Ears" can't hear any music they are just ONE of the mediums for your Music.
your "State of Mind" Decides - what is MUSIC to you, adjectives come later.

sbg

 

[ssf]

Now that is what one calls, 'Music to ones ears'

I am still not getting the time to put together my thoughts on the subject but till I do, please do chip in with your thoughts.

At this moment, in my current frame of mind, noisily chewing on my carrots,my cucumbers and my apples amidst the early morning calm, my mind thinks that this is good music.

Bach / Art of fugue - Contrapunctus01 / Glenn Gould - YouTube

 

[ajay124]

good music=phil ochs.

There But For Fortune - Phil Ochs - YouTube

 

[ssf]

Ajay,

good music=phil ochs.

Why do you think that Phil Ochs is good music. What were the factors that influenced you into liking music such as Phil Ochs ?

I was asking myself these very questions when I told myself that I think Art of Fague is good music. Now, this music has no drums, nobody is singing, no guitar, so then why ? What were my influences.

Some might tell me to stop over analyzing and just get on with listening to music that I find good and there might be a bit of logic to that too. :lol:

 

[corElement]

Good music is music that doesn't piss you off.

 

[jls001]

"Good music" is too loaded a term. There are definitely what is accepted universally as good music, but what is good music to you depends on you and you alone. And therefore good music is very subjective.

But I agree with jaudere and hiten that what one likes changes with time. And it must. After all, one can't be listening forever to a limited set of music.

Like ssf, I too, at one point, listened to nothing but metal and hard rock. In those long ago days, even bands like Queen or Dire Straits were sounding "sissy" for my taste. As of today, these bands weigh on the heavier end of my listening spectrum. But I must say I can still go back and listen to at least some of the better music from that era - the melodic inventiveness of Poison's CC Deville still gives me a high, the keyboard and fretboard wizardry of Eddie Van Halen still sends mild shivers down my spine, Ozzy Osbourne's voice emanating from the bottom of a deep well, the metalligrowl of a James Hetfield and the sometimes strange timing of Lars Ulrich's drum, or the genius of Nuno Bettencourt (of Extreme).

Investing in good music system goads you to listen to better recorded music. I find that aplenty in jazz of all hues, western classical, (surpirsingly) in many 80s and 90s electropop, and some of the "audiophile" recordings. It definitely widens your horizon for good.

 

[square_wave]

rock/kolaveri di*,

Hiten, with all due respects to you, let's try not to use the words rock and kolavari di in the same sentence !

There is an ocean of difference between them

Extremely well executed and successful viral marketing exercise and music with meaning are quite different.

 

[christian paul]

This happened more than 15 years back. One of my acquaintance, while suffering a heart-attack, was declared clinically dead for a couple of minutes. After his recovery, he recalled the final moments of that day - before he passed out, he heard a familiar melody that transported him to a blissful state. Later he tried his best recollect that familiar melody but all his efforts were in vain. Subsequently, he gave up - in his words the melody was very familiar, yet unknown.

May be we all are searching for that elusive melody.