True Wireless - the new confusion

Audiolab - Home Audio for the Connoisseur
msankadi said:
On my android s23 ultra even a 1.5k TWS or neckband by realme supports multi device support and "seamless switching"
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I have an s21 also, and I still have a galaxy buds at home. To be honest, somehow the galaxy buds won’t allow me to seamlessly switch from my windows laptop to the android phone or from android to iPhone. I don’t have two android phones to test When you meant you can transfer it across androids , did you mean by selecting the earphone after selecting from the Bluetooth menu ? That’s not what I meant by seamless across Apple devices. Once you open the case near a device it would pop up in that devices screen asking if I need to switch to that device and it works like a charm. I still don’t call it absolute in terms of sound quality. But none of the TWS I had tried in the past were too. This is the fourth one I m having, prior to this I had a momentum 1st gen, and Sony 1000 xm3. But that was long back, and I cannot compare it with the AirPod pro as I cannot trust my memory of a sound I listened 2 plus year back.
 
Passive_audio_enthusiast said:
So that’s where you are coming from! Or you actually had the momentum and the Sony and you had compared it against the AirPods Pro 2?
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@msankadi
I currently have Bose QC3 (which replaced an XM3 headphone) and an AP Max
In TWS, I have AP Pro, AP (vanilla), Jabra 65t, Sony XM4 TWS, Sony linkbuds and Pixel

I understand there are plenty of wired models that can beat any of the above in terms of SQ but its terribly difficult to go back to wires when it comes to earphones.

Now within the wired headphones, the QC3 is better than what I remember of the Sony WH1000XM3
And the AP max is noticeably better than the Bose QC3

As for wireless, even though its almost futile to compare headphones with tws yet the AP pro comes close enough to the QC3.
To be fair, the XM4 (TWS) isnt bad either but its nowhere near as comfortable or convenient - and fares very poorly on call quality comparatively.

And while it did cost marginally lower (17K IIRC vs 18 for the AP pro), the extra 5-6% is way worth it for the comfort as an uncomfortable TWS is as good as not having one.

The catch with buying any Apple earphone (or for that matter most of their product line) is that they wont be the objective best on any particular parameter - but they will be close enough on most, if not all parameters.
That’s what ends up making them the best VFM purchase for the folks who aren’t chasing the absolute best on a specific measure..
And rather are looking for a well rounded product at a non obscene price point.

The AP Pro will be in the top 3 or 5 on most parameters that practical users care for - to me these are SQ, Isolation/ANC quality, Mic quality/BG Noise filtering , Comfort and connectivity. And by most measures, AP Pro performs admirably on each of these categories coming either at top or close enough on all of ‘em. And the competition isn’t particularly cheap either
 
superczar said:
@msankadi
I currently have Bose QC3 (which replaced an XM3 headphone) and an AP Max
In TWS, I have AP Pro, AP (vanilla), Jabra 65t, Sony XM4 TWS, Sony linkbuds and Pixel

I understand there are plenty of wired models that can beat any of the above in terms of SQ but its terribly difficult to go back to wires when it comes to earphones.

Now within the wired headphones, the QC3 is better than what I remember of the Sony WH1000XM3
And the AP max is noticeably better than the Bose QC3

As for wireless, even though its almost futile to compare headphones with tws yet the AP pro comes close enough to the QC3.
To be fair, the XM4 (TWS) isnt bad either but its nowhere near as comfortable or convenient - and fares very poorly on call quality comparatively.

And while it did cost marginally lower (17K IIRC vs 18 for the AP pro), the extra 5-6% is way worth it for the comfort as an uncomfortable TWS is as good as not having one.

The catch with buying any Apple earphone (or for that matter most of their product line) is that they wont be the objective best on any particular parameter - but they will be close enough on most, if not all parameters.
That’s what ends up making them the best VFM purchase for the folks who aren’t chasing the absolute best on a specific measure..
And rather are looking for a well rounded product at a non obscene price point.

The AP Pro will be in the top 3 or 5 on most parameters that practical users care for - to me these are SQ, Isolation/ANC quality, Mic quality/BG Noise filtering , Comfort and connectivity. And by most measures, AP Pro performs admirably on each of these categories coming either at top or close enough on all of ‘em. And the competition isn’t particularly cheap either
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Have you tested these on an apple phone with apple codec or used android with the high nitrate codecs? Also from the reviews i have seen, everyone is saying the quality of music in apple pro 2 is much lower compared to the sony xm5 or the momentum 4.

To each his own though. If you feel you're happy with apple earphone and settling for the sound, perfectly fine. Happy that it works for you.

I do find it curious though how on an audiophile forum where we spend lakhs to get the last 5% improvement, people are happy to compromise on sound quality just coz they like the name of one company
 
msankadi said:



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Without comparison to AirPods Pro 2 in none of these videos, how do you still say these are superior than the AirPods Pro 2?
As you mentioned I checked what Darko Bhai had to say about them and seems like he is impressed with the AirPods Pro 2. Link here :
I wonder how you missed this review though!

Bottom line, all these subjective reviews are useless, as you can see there is no unified opinion. It’s all preference related. So when you say AirPods Pro 2 is garbage compared to Sonys of sennheisers, it’s just your opinion based on your preference and your hearing ability rather than the universal truth. If you look at how each of these measure, none are great but AirPods Pro 2 is more closer to neutral than the others. I like neutral sound, and to my ears galaxy buds is still better by a small margin but then again, my moondrop aria sounds better than both of these! End of the day, I can easily live with the AirPods for their convenience with my devices and they don’t massively lack compared to the Samsung and the moondrops.
 

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msankadi said:
I do find it curious though how on an audiophile forum where we spend lakhs to get the last 5% improvement, people are happy to compromise on sound quality just coz they like the name of one company
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I find this remark uncharitable. @superczar took pains to explain why he’d pick a TWS that’s not the best in any category, but close to the top in most/all. And you reduced it down to mere brand image. But this is also consistent with your anti-Apple stance we’ve experienced even before.

Audiophiles are humans too and they don’t use/select a TWS (or any product) only for the sound quality though it wouid be a bigger consideration for them than average users. I’d probably look for a Final ZE8000 if I were to select a TWS under Rs 30k just for its sound quality. But with all factors (so admirably listed by @superczar) considered, it won’t be my top choice for myself (an Apple ecosystem user).
 
sachinchavan 15865 said:
I find this remark uncharitable. @superczar took pains to explain why he’d pick a TWS that’s not the best in any category, but close to the top in most/all. And you reduced it down to mere brand image. But this is also consistent with your anti-Apple stance we’ve experienced even before.

Audiophiles are humans too and they don’t use/select a TWS (or any product) only for the sound quality though it wouid be a bigger consideration for them than average users. I’d probably look for a Final ZE8000 if I were to select a TWS under Rs 30k just for its sound quality. But with all factors (so admirably listed by @superczar) considered, it won’t be my top choice for myself (an Apple ecosystem user).
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Interesting thought. I thank you for the bold part.
 
sachinchavan 15865 said:
I find this remark uncharitable. @superczar took pains to explain why he’d pick a TWS that’s not the best in any category, but close to the top in most/all. And you reduced it down to mere brand image. But this is also consistent with your anti-Apple stance we’ve experienced even before.

Audiophiles are humans too and they don’t use/select a TWS (or any product) only for the sound quality though it wouid be a bigger consideration for them than average users. I’d probably look for a Final ZE8000 if I were to select a TWS under Rs 30k just for its sound quality. But with all factors (so admirably listed by @superczar) considered, it won’t be my top choice for myself (an Apple ecosystem user).
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Yes, unfortunately this is consistent with the pro-apple stance you and @superczar have always taken on this forum too
 
sachinchavan 15865 said:
It’s no secret that I am a happy Apple camper. But I never target threads on its alternatives (Android/Windows PC/Sony etc).
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Same here, I have lot of Apple devices at home, and I clearly know their limitations but for me it works. AirPods Pro 2 are great TWS earphones, in terms of absolute sound quality it’s below the Samsungs, but as per comparisons online it’s better than Sonys and sennheisers. There was no video or post where I had seen a reviewer mentioning the Sony/ momentum to be superior than the AirPods Pro 2. But if you are on Apple eco system, the AirPods are still a better buy than the Samsungs. If I have to choose between one and if I didn’t had Apple devices the default would be Samsung galaxy buds pro without any thought.

I am truly surprised by the quality of Samsungs q series soundbars and their galaxy buds(I own the first version and had tried the first pro version )

In terms of absolute sound quality on the go. Iems are still the way to go if the environment is quiet(or you won’t hear that fidelity in the noise). I had tried many iems that was recommended by crinacle and every year I see the price bar for quality getting lower and lower, which is a win for us customers. Also it helps people who are on a budget to get the same fidelity that used be there on something expensive just few years back.
 
Passive_audio_enthusiast said:
There was no video or post where I had seen a reviewer mentioning the Sony/ momentum to be superior than the AirPods Pro 2.
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You might want to ask Google Gemini or Copilot to do a research for you if you truly want to find the best sound quality objectively. Here, I just asked Google gemini for a simple prompt.You can check out the sources which it quotes. One of the videos it linked was 1714637645538.png

I hardly see any reddit posts saying anyone should get an airpods pro over sony or momentum, if they want sound quality
https://www.reddit.com/r/sennheiser/comments/1b4b2b1/sennheiser_momentum_4_true_wireless_earbuds_vs
https://www.reddit.com/r/Earbuds/comments/1c2hden/airpods_pro_2nd_gen_vs_sennheiser_momentum_4

Then again, your opinion is using the Sennheiser and Sony on apple devices which locks them into terrible apple codecs instead of high fidelity codecs on middle-upper end androids


And one more review just scrolling to 3rd link on the google search:


Sennheiser's fourth-generation true wireless earbuds are easily some of the best wireless earbuds in the business, thanks to their excellent sound (with higher-resolution codecs to boot), plethora of features, good call quality and solid battery life – you even get an IP54 dust- and water resistance.

But Apple's AirPods Pro 2nd Gen have been incredibly popular since their launch, delivering greatly improved sound quality and noise cancellation over the original version, plus a smart Adaptive Transparency mode and head-tracked spatial audio if you're using an iOS device.
 
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msankadi said:
You might want to ask Google Gemini or Copilot to do a research for you if you truly want to find the best sound quality objectively. Here, I just asked Google gemini for a simple prompt.You can check out the sources which it quotes. One of the videos it linked was View attachment 84200

I hardly see any reddit posts saying anyone should get an airpods pro over sony or momentum, if they want sound quality
https://www.reddit.com/r/sennheiser/comments/1b4b2b1/sennheiser_momentum_4_true_wireless_earbuds_vs
https://www.reddit.com/r/Earbuds/comments/1c2hden/airpods_pro_2nd_gen_vs_sennheiser_momentum_4

Then again, your opinion is using the Sennheiser and Sony on apple devices which locks them into terrible apple codecs instead of high fidelity codecs on middle-upper end androids


And one more review just scrolling to 3rd link on the google search:


Sennheiser's fourth-generation true wireless earbuds are easily some of the best wireless earbuds in the business, thanks to their excellent sound (with higher-resolution codecs to boot), plethora of features, good call quality and solid battery life – you even get an IP54 dust- and water resistance.

But Apple's AirPods Pro 2nd Gen have been incredibly popular since their launch, delivering greatly improved sound quality and noise cancellation over the original version, plus a smart Adaptive Transparency mode and head-tracked spatial audio if you're using an iOS device.
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None Of the sources you have quoted are audiophile review places, it’s general tech reviews. I quoted rtings like that in the beginning, then to prove your point you asked me to check Darko (not realizing his review was quite positive for them) . Once I quoted it, you went to search for random positive reviews from people who has no history in audio reviews like DMS, Crinacle, or Darko for that matter only to prove your bias against Apple. Do you still consider Darko a good source for audio reviews?
 
msankadi said:
Then again, your opinion is using the Sennheiser and Sony on apple devices which locks them into terrible apple codecs instead of high fidelity codecs on middle-upper end androids
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That’s true. Apple devices limit to SBC and AAC codecs, and don’t support LDAC which can reach resolutions (990kbps) far closer to CD resolution than AAC. Hopefully Apple has something up its sleeve and can get ALAC to be used as BT codec in near future. It’s also important to note that Android phones themselves differ in how much of the bandwidth that LDAC provides they use. Samsung buds can use the Samsung Scalable Codec that manages packet loss very well.

In short, the matching between the phone and the earbuds impacts the sound quality and one cannot go by merely the stated specs of the TSWs. Matching the brands between the two might give the best possible results and avoid spending on unusable specs on the buds in one’s context.
 
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sachinchavan 15865 said:
Hopefully Apple has something up its sleeve and can get ALAC to be used as BT codec in near future.
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I hope so. As people have pointed out, the AM lossless support is something that is very affordable and good. Actually, to me it does seem probable that apple will do it as a natural extension for their music. I think most users dont care about lossless and typically apple tries to put in only features that appeal to most users. But then again, this didnt hold them back from being the most affordable lossless provider. So, probably my assumption is wrong.
 
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msankadi said:
I do find it curious though how on an audiophile forum where we spend lakhs to get the last 5% improvement, people are happy to compromise on sound quality just coz they like the name of one company
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I am not sure why you jumped to this conclusion even though I have clearly stated that AP Pro is not the best on SQ by any means.

Do I generally prefer Apple products - yes; largely coz in several product categories, their products tend to be consistently good and in general offer a streamlined UX (and yes, UX is very important to me)

Does this mean its true for every product - of course not! Their computer peripherals (magic mouse in particular) are often atrociously bad on both performance and price.

Coming back to AP - to repeat, are they the best on any single measure? No
When you combine everything together the weighted average ends up making them a good choice.
By everything I mean not only the SQ but also comfort/ consistency/ Mic Quality as well as some non obvious characteristics (e.g. something as basic as ease/ time taken to use & remove/ place back into case)

If SQ were my/any user's sole/only criteria, I/They would not have brought a TWS in the first place, isn't it?
 
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