2.0 Vs 2.1 Vs 5.1

[Aarjun]

Hi All,

I am very new to the hifi world and am trying to start slow by adding a better sound system to my new 51 inch plasma (It sounds horrible). Though eventually I want to get to the ultimate system, but I want to start slow and build as I go. Though I watch movies and all, but there is a significant chunk also includes listening to music.

So the idea is to start 2.0 or 2.1 system and then probably later on upgrade to 5.1. I have a room size of 12ft X 12ft. I have a budget of about 25 - 30K to start with. I have input devices like satellite tv, Xbox, DVD player, USB etc. Here are few questions -

1. Amplifier - I have learnt from this forum that a stereo amplifier is better than a 5.1 amp in stereo mode. If that is true, which amp I should go for? If tomorrow I do upgrade to 5.1 system, how do I keep the quality of a stereo amplifier for music? Do I use two amps - one for music and one for movies?

2. FS vs BS - Now this is a big one. I love the look and feel of floorstanders. And I love the way they sound too. Are there any budget bookshelves that come close to that performance? Which ones should I look at?

2. Sub or no sub - I am not sure if I would be able to squeeze one in the budget I have. If I invest a little more in FS, is there absolutely no need for the sub and is absolutely a must in case of a BS?

I am sure I would be asked to do a lot of audition and that I will, but I need to have baseline suggestions because I don't want to audition everything under the sun

Thanks!
Aarjun

 

[prosenjit]

if you will common system for music and movies..avr is needed anyway..
(well strictly speaking...as there are 2.0 systems who will kick ass of a 7.1 system..)


source is also imp
it is unjustifed to invest so much money for mp3 and dvd rips
so first decide..will you slowly build a good system..
then get pre out wala avr and 2 bs(fs not needed belive me).
later add
centre(should be very very good)
sub(same..invest as much as you can)
rears(cheapest)
power amp..

or you can get
a good amp and 2 fs..with your full budget..problem is with 30k..it is also difficult..

http://www.hifivision.com/sale-owner/47286-onkyo-5-2-thx-certified-speakers-sale.html

maybe of your use

 

[Aarjun]

So I am planning to start off with a cheap AVR - Pioneer 822k, its selling for about $220 in the US and I will pick it up next month on my trip. It has decent reviews and the spec sheet says it has a pre-out available. So that I means in can use this reciever as a preamp and add another poweramp to drive my floor standers?

Any thoughts about Pioneer 822?

Thanks!
Aarjun

 

[manoj.p]

The pre-out on 822 is for adding more surround channels like Front height or surround back. It will not help you for music. For front LR preout, you need to go to 1123.

 

[Aarjun]

The pre-out on 822 is for adding more surround channels like Front height or surround back. It will not help you for music. For front LR preout, you need to go to 1123.

Oh wow ok, did not know that. Any other decent AVR in the range of $200 - $300 which has a preout and does everything well too? I am planning to pick it up from the US.

 

[prosenjit]

pioneer and HK avrs(some maratnz also) have models with decent price having pre outs
other brands prvide pre outs in cnostlier models

 

[Aarjun]

pioneer and HK avrs(some maratnz also) have models with decent price having pre outs
other brands prvide pre outs in cnostlier models

Thank you for your suggestion my man. So once I sort out the AVR, which stereo power amp you would recommend to connect through pre out and then to my floorstanders? Again, should be in the budget range and not too expensive.

 

[Tanoj]

Hi Aarjun

Firstly all the very best for your build ....

even i started my build from scratch .... did lot of expirements and finally got what i was looking for, within my budget

weather you use it for listning to music or watching movie, you will surely need to give equal priority to three things, without which you will never get best out of it

A) Source : you may use TT, DAC, Dedicated CDP etc

B) Amplifier : here i will suggest to build your own amp, contact sachin and get the pre and power amp kit, you will build a super amp for very less price.

if you need more powerful power amp, check with linux guru, he build a 25 w per channel power amp

Trust me the above DIY amp will blow you out, and you will be amazed with its SQ

c) speakers : i am using Bs speakers i listen to music and watch movies too, never will i add a sub ... bass is more than sufficient ... my sofa resonates to its sound , i suggest go for used Bs speakers on this forum.

once you get this three, then there are other things too which you need to do

d ) speaker placement - v imp

E ) Acoustic Treatment

F ) Cables : interconnects and speaker cables, i am using MX interconnect and Asure rapport speaker cable - so far happy with it

Regards

Tanoj

 

[manoj.p]

Oh wow ok, did not know that. Any other decent AVR in the range of $200 - $300 which has a preout and does everything well too? I am planning to pick it up from the US.

In addition to the HK and others suggested above, yamaha also adds pre-out on its cheaper models. If you plan to alternate between music and movies, you may not need pre-outs. Just use the zone 2 line outs from the AVR.

But this whole premise of stereo amp is better than avr amp is a big myth. If you get a decent avr, it should be fine. Amps are not meant to change sonic signatures, although some do. its better to avoid those kind of amps.

 

[Aarjun]

B) Amplifier : here i will suggest to build your own amp, contact sachin and get the pre and power amp kit, you will build a super amp for very less price.

if you need more powerful power amp, check with linux guru, he build a 25 w per channel power amp

Trust me the above DIY amp will blow you out, and you will be amazed with its SQ

Thank you Tanoj for your detailed response. I am not really sure I am inclined towards DIY stuff at this point, I don't think I have the time or the expertise to build an amp on my own. I am sure the one you built sounds great, but you seem to have a lot more knowledge than I do.

What I was thinking was to buy a budget AVR for the time being, and then later add a power amp using the pre out feature. And I agree on your feedback regarding the bookshelves, but I guess I would need a subwoofer for the movies - I just love that thump

So much was the urgency, that I went ahead a bought a "local" amp and FS speakers from OLX to just get started - that TV speakers were killing me.

I mean the overall sound is better and loud but the amp is just driving me crazy. Even small movements of the "knobs" creates crazy distortion in the speakers and the left/right balance just doesnt work. But I guess now I know how a bad amp and speakers sound and can appreciate once I start getting better equipment. (Speakers aren't that bad I think, the guy said they are from a company called Rave Acoustics, got them pretty cheap though).

Thanks!
Aarjun

 

[Aarjun]

In addition to the HK and others suggested above, yamaha also adds pre-out on its cheaper models. If you plan to alternate between music and movies, you may not need pre-outs. Just use the zone 2 line outs from the AVR.

But this whole premise of stereo amp is better than avr amp is a big myth. If you get a decent avr, it should be fine. Amps are not meant to change sonic signatures, although some do. its better to avoid those kind of amps.

Thank you Manoj for your response. One thing I do not understand is how can I use the zone 2 line outs for driving the same front speakers. Isn't zone 2 meant for separate speakers in a different room/zone?

I mean what I am trying to do is to use AVR while playing movies, but use a power amp while listening to music, I thought pre out on the AVR was the way to do it. I think I am missing something.

I also went through a lot of threads and discussion about AVR vs Power Amp quality, and I think there was a general consensus that similarly priced AVR and power amp will have different performance levels. I mean I am not an audiophile and I might not even notice the difference, I am just learning from this wonderful forum and super helpful people like you


Thanks!
Aarjun

 

[manoj.p]

Yes, zone 2 is meant for different speakers, so that's why I said alternating between two. In that case, you will need to buy a speaker selector too.

In my opinion, if you plan to drive the Left right with the amp, then you are better off getting one more amp and then driving the center channel also with it. You want to have all the front 3 speakers getting similar power.

as far as the stereo amp being better than avr amp, its again a generalization. Not all amps are equal. So, its very safe to assume that stereo amp will always be better than avr amp. One argument is that for same price, stereo amp has way less parts compared to avr so it has better components. Looks good on paper. But AVR's are made in way high numbers compared to stereo amps. Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha make lacs of avr's and have better scales to demand low prices for most of the components. Same scale is not available to stereo amp manufacturers and their component cost is higher to begin with. Also, they do not have big budget to do R&D, testing etc, so you can imagine the end product. Even if we grant the thinking that they do have less components compared to AVR, but does it guarantee that the manufacturer indeed used better quality amps, done better design etc? People just assume too much.

I do use an external amp for my front 3 speakers. The reason is my speakers are pro speakers and driving all 7 from AVR could be a bad choice. I didn't had an issue driving all of them with AVR (90 watts x 7 channels) but thought of getting an external amp for front 3. The 4 surrounds are still being driven by AVR. Do I notice big change? Nope. May be in some tracks where more sudden dynamic power is needed. But there is not much of a change if all your components are neutral. The amplifier has one job - take a low line level current and amplify it so it can drive big speakers.

If I were you, rather than going with another amplifier, I would spend that money, increase the budget and get a better receiver power wise.

 

[Tanoj]

Congrats Aarun on your acquisition,

appreciate if you could upload fw pics of your setup

Regards

Tanoj

 

[prosenjit]

for power amp..emotiva is considered very very nice at the price..
you may get the 80w per ch..5 ch power amp from them ..it is around 400 usd
80w pure power is no joke..suffcient for a mid sized room
although higher reserves is always better..decide acording to yoru budget

 

[Aarjun]

Congrats Aarun on your acquisition,

appreciate if you could upload fw pics of your setup

Regards

Tanoj

Hehe sure, but hey, no one is allowed to laugh









Thanks!
Aarjun

 

[Aarjun]

for power amp..emotiva is considered very very nice at the price..
you may get the 80w per ch..5 ch power amp from them ..it is around 400 usd
80w pure power is no joke..suffcient for a mid sized room
although higher reserves is always better..decide acording to yoru budget

Thank you Prosenjit, I will look at the Emotiva stuff when I travel next month.

Thanks!
Aarjun