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2 channel sound and movie viewing

Wharfedale Evo 4.2

himadri

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hi guys
i need some info.For 2 channel sound along with movie/music dvd viewing, will the sound quality suffer if you dont use a sound processor or av receiver in the loop /and use an integrated amplifier connected to the analogue outs of the dvd player.i.e phillips plasma+marantzpm11si+snellc7+denon dvd1940
regards himadri
 

spirovious

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For 2 ch sound (music) there shldnt be prob with good stereo amp.Your Denon DVDp can have better output to amp & better will be the music.

For 5.1ch mov,you cannot enjoy true surr without AVR.If mov are Divx,no prob with stereo setup.

Another opt is Soundbar which can give 5.1surr effect with only a spk(bar) below the tv.
 

skumar

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There is an option to downmix 5.1 into 2.0 channels in some DVDPs, use that if your DVDP can do it. You will not get the 5.1 effect, but you will get to hear all the channels from the stereo setup.
 

himadri

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thanks spiro and kumar
but one aspect is not clear.for movies and music dvds recorded in dts or dolby digital being played through a dvd player -2 channel amplifier does the dvd player send only the left and right channel through the analogue outputs of the dvd player? if so how do the centre and surround channels get integrated in the 2 channel output? or alternatively is a 2 channel mix always available by default in the recording? or does the dvd player do the mixing internally?
cheers
himadri
 

thevortex

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Watching movies in 2 channel output or 2.1 channel output using an Integrated amplifier is just fine. I can vouch for it. But please dont expect things like Dolby Digital or DTS. You would be getting audio in LPCM and output will be pure stereo. That is it. And yes, movies can still be enjoyed without surround. But this is a personal thing.

I am not sure about the DACs in your DVD player. But if they are good, then you are in for a treat. Do try it out.
 

skumar

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but one aspect is not clear.for movies and music dvds recorded in dts or dolby digital being played through a dvd player -2 channel amplifier does the dvd player send only the left and right channel through the analogue outputs of the dvd player? if so how do the centre and surround channels get integrated in the 2 channel output? or alternatively is a 2 channel mix always available by default in the recording? or does the dvd player do the mixing internally?

The original L+R front channels are available by default thru the analog output of the DVDP. If you want the rest of the 3.1 also mixed into these 2.0, you need a DVDP with "downmix" option, as mentioned earlier. Check out the Audio menu in your DVDP or the manual... or go thru the manual of Pioneer-610, that DVDP has this option.
 

spirovious

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Himadri-
While downmixing,L & R are same, Centre & Sub ch is devided into 2 & added to L+R,
Surr to in similar way,but to respective ch.ie.Surr Rt added to R only.
 

himadri

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thanks spiro, vortex and kumar
things are a lot clear now.the dacs of the denon dvd1940 are quite good actually as i have compared them favourably with my cd player denon dcd700ae. one last thing.actually i am looking for a suitable replacement for the denon 4308 in my brothers set up of 1940+snell c7s(pair)+denon 4308 which he used to operate in a stereo mode for movies and music. as the denon is not able to handle the 4 ohm loads of the snells he is considering replacing the 4308 with high current integrated like marantz pm11s2 which can handle the snells.i am sure 2 channel music will be top class as the snells are fab speakers (i hve heard them) what about the movies/music dvds?the movies/ music dvds were being watched in the stereo mode of the receiver(denon 4308). where was the downmixing being done i.e. by the avr 4308 or the dvdp 1940 while watching movies/music dvds in the stereo mode ?
cheers
himadri
 

skumar

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The original L+R front channels are available by default thru the analog output of the DVDP. If you want the rest of the 3.1 also mixed into these 2.0, you need a DVDP with "downmix" option, as mentioned earlier. Check out the Audio menu in your DVDP or the manual...

what about the movies/music dvds?the movies/ music dvds were being watched in the stereo mode of the receiver(denon 4308). where was the downmixing being done i.e. by the avr 4308 or the dvdp 1940 while watching movies/music dvds in the stereo mode ?

I rest my case, read the manuals of 4308 or 1940 please...
 

spirovious

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what about the movies/music dvds?the movies/ music dvds were being watched in the stereo mode of the receiver(denon 4308). where was the downmixing being done i.e. by the avr 4308 or the dvdp 1940 while watching movies/music dvds in the stereo mode ?
cheers
himadri
When you connect DVDP with ana stereo to AVR Tape/CD in, DVDp will do with proper menu setting.

If you connect DVDp with digital coax to AVR,its AVR which does dwn mixing.
 

thevortex

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Why are you worried about downmixing and all that? In your case, you would only be connecting two speakers and that is all that the DVD player will see. And since you will be using a stereo amplifier there is no case for an SPDIF output to be used. It will be pure analog 2 channel sound for everything - movies and music, regardless of encoding.
 

sentinel

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You can hear 5.1 channel signal using only two speakers. There are technologies like Dolby virtual surround which uses psychoacoustics to reproduce 5.1 channel signal through only two speakers.:eek:hyeah:
 

Asit

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Hi Himadri,

I agree with Vortex that if you are taking analogue out of our DVDP, I'd think the DVDP is programmed in a way so that the sound is necessarily 2-channel and you do not have to worry about downmixing.

Downmixing is relevant when you are taking digital out from your DVDP and putting your digital cable (Coaxial or optical) into a 2-channel DAC. This is what I do. I first downmix the 5.1 or whatever multichannel signal in my DVDP into 2-channel (stereo) digital signal and then send this through a digital cable to my 2-channel DAC. The analogue outputs of the DAC then go to my 2-channel amp. In my DVDP there is also an option of having this 2-channel digital audio in simulated surround mode. I use that too. Whenever we watch movies at home, we do it this way while an HDMI cable connects my DVDP to my LCD TV. The HDMI cable also carries audio, but we turn the volume of the TV down or can have it too at moderate volume (using it something like a centre channel). But the sound of my TV cannot match my DAC+Amp combination, so most of the times we keep the volume of the TV at zero position.

In your case, as explained above, just connectiong your DVDP with your 2 channel amp by analgue RCA stereo cable will give reasonable sound if your DVDP is decent (the denon 1940 is decent I believe).

Regards.
 

himadri

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thanks asit, spiro,vortex,sentinel, kumar
i checked the manuals of 1940. there is a facility of selecting the downmixed 5.1 into 2 channels in the analogue 2 channel output by selecting the 2 channel option. but i guess you guys are damn right . as long it is 2 channel audio this aspect wont make much of a difference. but asit, i also agree that if you have as high quality audio like snellc7 and marantz pm11s2 adding other channels through tv speakers or sound bars will only end up degrading the sound.thanks a lot you guys. i have enough inputs now.as always, it finally boils down to either afford a high quality 2 channel or a high quality multi channel system. (for me its always 2 channel but let my brother take a call)
cheers
himadri
 

grunthos

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Had a slightly related query, hence bumping the thread

If I have a HTPC and I have files with 5.1 sound. Can stereo amps decode 5.1 audio and downmix to 2.0 - if they are connected by digital audio ?

Similarly for xbox. I have an older 'fat' model which has component out, with a digital audio option - all games have 5.1 audio. If I were to connect the digital out from the xbox to a stereo amp, would the amp be able to successfully convert to 2.0 ?
 

manniraj

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For this your 2-channel amplifier should have a 5.1 audio decoder and also the capability to downmix to 2.0 channels, which I doubt any stereo/integrated amplifier will have. Your best bet would be to downmix at the source itself, for example in a HTPC you can use any software like xbmc,foobar and decode 5.1 to 2.0 channels and feed the stereo amplifier with RCA cables.
 

just4kix

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2.0 channel sound from movies is a big step down and a total disappointment.

This is my personal opinion.

Modern movies are encoded with 5.1 sound or sometimes even 7.1 sound. The center channel is one of the most important channels of the movie. It is from here that the dialogues/speech is delivered. Center channel is used 85% of the time or more in the movie.

If you use 2-channel output, the dialogues are sent to both left and right channels. The speech sound totally unnatural and too spatial. The effect is lost. I have switched the AVR from 5.1 DD/DTS to 2-channel stereo and the whole experience became pathetic.

In summary, 5.1 is the best option for movies. You can perhaps even live without the rear surrounds and go with 3.1. But without center channel, the movie is not worth watching. If I may say so, the center channel is more important than main left+right and the sub.
 

grunthos

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For this your 2-channel amplifier should have a 5.1 audio decoder and also the capability to downmix to 2.0 channels, which I doubt any stereo/integrated amplifier will have. Your best bet would be to downmix at the source itself, for example in a HTPC you can use any software like xbmc,foobar and decode 5.1 to 2.0 channels and feed the stereo amplifier with RCA cables.

Yes I figured stereo amplifiers will not have that quality - but just wanted to confirm. Meanwhile, will entry level AVRs have this downmixing feature ? Or will it have to be a mid-to-high range receiver ?

Himadri

For movie watching using stereo a sub definitely adds value, without it it lacks a lot of the punch of spl effects


2.0 channel sound from movies is a big step down and a total disappointment.

This is my personal opinion.

Modern movies are encoded with 5.1 sound or sometimes even 7.1 sound. The center channel is one of the most important channels of the movie. It is from here that the dialogues/speech is delivered. Center channel is used 85% of the time or more in the movie.

If you use 2-channel output, the dialogues are sent to both left and right channels. The speech sound totally unnatural and too spatial. The effect is lost. I have switched the AVR from 5.1 DD/DTS to 2-channel stereo and the whole experience became pathetic.

In summary, 5.1 is the best option for movies. You can perhaps even live without the rear surrounds and go with 3.1. But without center channel, the movie is not worth watching. If I may say so, the center channel is more important than main left+right and the sub.

Thank you for your inputs. No doubt having a full 5.1 will incalculably enhance my movies experience. But what is life without constraints :)

I am currently using just a TV. Needless to say, the audio is pathetic. Within my constraints (rented apartment, budget etc), the option is to upgrade to good 2.0 speakers, maybe even a Tannoy V4 or a Boston A360. Now I can power them with a good stereo amp or I can take a budget AVR route.

Video (TV shows) is as important to me as music. My DishHD has a HDMI output. Plus the occasional xbox use. Your replies confirm what I have been thinking - that a stereo amplifier is not an option at all, despite me using only 2 speakers. Thank you for all the information. Now I have to look for an entry level AVR. Time to get on with the auditioning maybe :)
 
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