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42" LG PQ60 Vs Samsung B450 Plasmas - Home Review.

Wharfedale EVO4.4

BLASTO

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Hi Guys,

Iam sure most of you guys interested in plasma are into buying either of the above or the Panasonic C10/X10.

I have already done a LG vs Panasonic comparison which I demoed in the showroom.

This review is between my LG PQ60 and addagalla's Samsung B450.

My Setup:

Hathway cable with Humax Set top Box - Hyderabad scheme.
Laptop with Media Player Classic Home Cinema, SD Divx videos, HD Mkvs and 1080p wall papers.

Addagalla's setup:

TATA Sky connection normal set top box without component.
The Laptop I took with me (fortunately had it in hand while returning from office)

The Demo took place within 20 minutes and is fairly accurate.

Observations:

Cable:

TATA Sky is far better than the Hathway connection I have!
The comparison is pointless. The Sky scales very well beyond 32" which is what I think is the limit to the hathway hyderabad.

My hathway signal shows 80% quality and 70% strength. The same signal looked much better with my 29" CRT. Now this is going to dustbin next month.

The only two channels which looked better in my connection was NDTV Lumire and Kalaingar TV.. Lumire was absent in TATA sky and kalaingar TV was not as good as hathway.. TATA Sky beats all other channels hands down..

The reason Iam not attributing this to TV is because, with the same TATA sky source, It is really hard for the LG to screw-up the picture this hard as the picture with my hathway cable.

Noise is minimal in both these machines compared to panasonics.

SD:

SD movies connected with PC to samsung was great. Black levels are comparable to panasonics. White levels, still LG has an edge. Overall contrast level is same due to that. The difference is, In a completely dark room, You will find the TV not blending with the surroundings. Not to confuse.., the black levels of LG is still much better than LCDs.

In the scaling department, LG seems to have a slight edge. Really pathetic 700mb Divx files looked slightly better in the LG in terms of smoothness.

SD Image engine looked almost same in the machines. Both better than the panasonic engine for SD handling IMO.

Gamma behaves the same way in boh TVs. High gamma results in better scenes in bright scenes and not so good picture in dark scenes. Low/Meduin gamma is ideal.

HD:

Black level is the distinguishning factor again.
Shadow details are same.

In some scenes both in SD and HD, I saw high colour saturation with "movie" mode in samsung. addagalla seems to like it that way but "standard" looked more natural to me.

Also the black contents are too much in some scenes. This could be because of the settings I had in the player optimised for LG.

I saw (from 4 feet) that some TATA sky scenes had edge sharpening attempt by the TV clearly visible. Looked better from normal viewing distance though.

Sound:

LG here. The samsung definitely needs an external speaker set. One of the worst I heard even in flat panel speakers.

Image Retention:

adda claims that he could not see any visible IR. I did not run any screen long enough for an IR so cannot comment. Actually you cannot see the temporary IR without hunting for it.

PQ60 had it for the first 2 months and now it is greatly reduced.

Scaling:

The very brief demo looked like LG had an edge in scaling. No confirmation here.

Others:

TATA sky has a notorious delay when changing channels. Takes 3 seconds at times. A blue screen comes for those 3 seconds.

The Black level difference make a difference to picture. Not at the level of LCDs vs Plasmas, But it does make a difference. It will be pronounced when you see the TVs side by side at home. You won't miss a lot with LG but.
Keep this is mind when finalising. For some this can be a dealbreaker but for some it is just another feature miss.

The granularity of the Brightness/Colour/Contrast etc are not lineaar in the LG for some reason (The volume too is nt lenear!). What it means is, while a contrast of 100 in LG and Samsung are same, 50 is not same. the LG sheds out a lot of contrast between 100 and 70 itself and very slowly after that. It means, a samsung at 50% contrast is same as LG with 60%.

Humming noise in samsung. It was not happening at the time I was doing the demo, so cannot comment. But with a bad speaker, it could be

The USB Picture/Music playback is an excellent feature in LG. The picture playback is the most useful. Slideshow, fwd, backward etc can be controlled by remote.

The USB movie playback has limited functionality. You cannot change the aspect ratio or picture settings. So this will become useful only after 3-4 months of use. It plays only SD.

The USB playback while very handy should not be the deciding factor. have a look at both the TVs, Convince yourself that you can compromise a bit of black level for USB and some savings and then jump in.

Glare:

No glare in both in home environment (period). You can just forget this aspect in the showroom. There is a bit of glare only when the TV is switched off.

Conclusion:

Not much other than the already defined guideline.

Samsung for black levels.

LG for Menu, White Levels, USB, sound.

Almost same in SD image engine, Colour, contrast, HD picture reproduction.
The DNie and XD are equally bad and better kept in 'off'.

B450 actually compares to PQ30 in features and look (even misses an USB port of the PQ30) and costs ~6k more than PQ30. Your decision should depend on If the enhanced black level means this much to you. You will also need an external speaker and a DVD player adding to the cost.

If you already have external speakers and an upscaling DVD player, you are probably not going to use the extra features the LG has to offer and samsung is a no brainer.

Will post high resolution pictures of my TV with Hathway on monday evening.
 
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Vj@HiFi

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Blasto,

That is some review, but obviously we don't know if the LG will be better with Tata Sky and that the Samsung will be as bad with Hathway...

Would it be possible for you guys to try that? Maybe I am asking for too much!

Addagalla seems to like his over yours? or am I reading it all wrong..

I guess I should wait for Suresh to add to this thread.
 

addagalla

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Before I bought my Samsung, I did the following auditions.

1) Blasto's LG PQ 60 at his home
2) LG PQ70, Sammy B450 & Panny C10 side by side at TMC
3) LG & Sammy side by side at Bajaj

#1:

SD was good with Hathway, but just good enough. DVD & HD lacked black levels. Sound was good.

#2:

They had Airtel digibox directly connected to LG. LG out was connected to Panny in and Panny out was connected to Sammy. You should know that there will be some signal loss at each stage. This is when I almost concluded that I should go for the Sammy. Being at the fag end of the reception, it was at least as good as the LG. Moreover, I liked the colors & black levels better. Shadow detail was better in Sammy in certain scenes.

#3:

Both connected to some pathetic cable, don't know how they were inter connected. Both looked decent, again Sammy was slightly better. Observations were similar to #2 in terms of colors, black levels, shadow detail and sound. On my way back, I happened to stop for chai at a posh place and they had the sammy 430 connected to airtel. I liked it very well. That's when I decided to just go for it.

So, in summary:

LG - SD is good, poor black levels, normal colors, sound is very good, DivX through USB, better menu.

Sammy - SD is very good, solid black levels, better colors (18 bit seems to matter), pathetic sound, no USB, slight buzzing noise (can't be heard unless you want to hear it from very near).

I really don't know about white levels, couldn't find any difference with my eyes. Again looks wise, I personally like the Sammy design, though a lot of people liked the single layer design of LG better. Negligible amount of glare in both when switched on.

Yes, I'd still vote for my Sammy. I had foregone an LG offer for 37 and still bought Sammy for 43 for the better picture.

Hope this helps in making up your mind.
 

Vj@HiFi

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Its getting closer, thanks to both of you.

I have little use for the USB, because I have WDTV.

Ordinary sound from Samsung should not be an issue, since nowadays even news is heard on the HT at our house! :)

I read and read about the HD ready vs. full HD issue. From what I understand, HD transmission as and when and if it comes to India will be 720p/1080i and since, at our home, we watch far more cable TV than movies, my conclusion is that HD ready is more than enough for us.

Actually I am quite happy with my local cable STB, and I did not want to become that Tata Sky Laga dala to zinga lala guy (or is it Airtel?), because I bought this big TV. And now that you tell me about the 3 second lag between channels with a blue screen in between, I am even more disinclined. We all surf channels don't we!
 

BLASTO

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Blasto,

That is some review, but obviously we don't know if the LG will be better with Tata Sky and that the Samsung will be as bad with Hathway...

Would it be possible for you guys to try that? Maybe I am asking for too much!

Addagalla seems to like his over yours? or am I reading it all wrong..

I guess I should wait for Suresh to add to this thread.
Vj,

We don't know if LG will be better with TATA sky at this point until someone who uses it can comment. I won't be able to answer it because, the store demo is usually pathetic and cannot be judged..

addagalla as he mentioned, has seen the Airtel DTH in the shop with parallel connections. I would assume the signal loss being minimal as the TVs were close enough and given the fact that the video out of TVs does not alter the signal much. Still if the pictures looked comparable, I would only assume LG is more capable with TATA sky.

My personal take on Samsung + Tata Sky is that it is a great combination. I will be getting either of TATA sky or Airtel shortly and can update this thread then but it will be around Jan end.

Regarding colours, Iam with the opinion that both the sets produce same amount of colours but theoritically LG uses a 16 bit panal vs 18 bit panel of samsung. Also addagalla uses/prefers pictures with more colour saturation than me. He uses the "movie" mode of Samsung which has high default colour output than the settings I have at my house. I prefer lower colour saturation for natural looking pictures. Having the LG TV for 2 months, I can say that the LG can be adjusted to the configuration of addagalla's samsung's colour output.

My vote is also to Samsung for picture quality.
But LG is an all rounder with slightly less black levels.

Look at it this way,

When someone is looking for a 32" LCD, It is better to spend a little bit more and get an LG 42" plasma with better PQ as a whole package, hang it on the wall, enjoy inbuilt speakers and watch movie via a external hard disk.

For someone who is looking for a 42" LCD, They can get the samsung plasma with better PQ and get a 2.1 speaker system and a DVD player and save some money.

While PQ60 by itself comes with good sound, the PQ70 comes with 2 extra speakers and a still better sound. It also has bluetooth and costs a little bit lesser than the samsung. It is a good deal.

Again, I still vote for samsung on picture quality measure alone and it is primarily to do with the black levels.
 

BLASTO

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Its getting closer, thanks to both of you.

I have little use for the USB, because I have WDTV.

Ordinary sound from Samsung should not be an issue, since nowadays even news is heard on the HT at our house! :)

I read and read about the HD ready vs. full HD issue. From what I understand, HD transmission as and when and if it comes to India will be 720p/1080i and since, at our home, we watch far more cable TV than movies, my conclusion is that HD ready is more than enough for us.

Actually I am quite happy with my local cable STB, and I did not want to become that Tata Sky Laga dala to zinga lala guy (or is it Airtel?), because I bought this big TV. And now that you tell me about the 3 second lag between channels with a blue screen in between, I am even more disinclined. We all surf channels don't we!

If you have WDTV.. Head straight to samsung!
The speaker set like creative inspire 2.1 for <2k can match LG's sound and more.

And the channel change delay is specific to tata sky. I heard Airtel for instance does not have this.

Thanks,
 
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Vj@HiFi

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If you have WDTV.. Head straight to samsung!
The speaker set like creative inspire 2.1 for <2k can match LG's sound and more.

And the channel change delay is specific to tata sky. I heard Airtel for instance does not have this.

Thanks,
Well I've (what the Gurus here call) a beginner's HT consisting of the 1909 with a pair of Diamond 9.6s and SW150. But with you too favouring Samsung over the LG seems to put a few things in place.

As far as the channel delay is concerned, I find even the WDTV remote/menu very slow and irritating... But everything can't be perfect, can it?

Thanks..
 

addagalla

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I'd say the delay when switching channels on Tata Sky is 1-2 seconds. Take it as close to 1 second. I would have changed to some other provider if it had really been more than that.
 

addagalla

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a beginner's HT consisting of the 1909 with a pair of Diamond 9.6s and SW150.
Thanks..
Since I need a basic HT myself, can you provide more details on your setup and feedback on how good it is? I want decent bass and clarity overall. How is it for music in particular?

Thanks
 

sidomania

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hw does a c10 compare to the b450 and lgpq70?
except the sound/usb etc.?
just the pq..
n also 4 gaming
 

BLASTO

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hw does a c10 compare to the b450 and lgpq70?
except the sound/usb etc.?
just the pq..
n also 4 gaming
IMO, For SD, Samsung/LG is better. There was a lot of noise/grains in the C10..
HD is better than both samsung and LG.
Black levels are very good in C10.
Has a bit more of reflective surface than both LG/Samsung..

Least suseptable to IR acording to reviews and hence suitable better for gaming.
 

Vj@HiFi

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Since I need a basic HT myself, can you provide more details on your setup and feedback on how good it is? I want decent bass and clarity overall. How is it for music in particular?

Thanks
I'll elaborate whatever little I know about my HT. I have a 2.1 setup consisting of a Denon 1909 AVR driving a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.6 tower speakers and an active Subwoofer SW150. I went for a decent setup on the sound front before I thought I needed the TV.

To my inexperienced ears I find that these speakers are good with considerable bass (and I mean, considerable) of their own, but I wanted that seat to shake in the odd (Transformers) movie, so I went ahead and bought the sub. Some of my music is not HD content (read, its mp3) so the sub is not even throwing out anything.

The AVR and the Tower deals that I was getting were temptingly attractive (or maybe I was foolishly impatient), so for the price I paid, I am happy. While I am sure their are better speakers out there (I certainly want to hear the RS6), this combination sounds musical, involving, and detailed enough to my untrained ears. But honestly I may have taken a slightly different route today, which is thus: if one is going to buy the sub anyway, you could look to buy a pair of good bookshelves (15-20k range) and an AVR. (I found the Wharfedale Diamond 10 series better than the 9 series, so the 10.1 was better than 9.2 and so on). And then later when one has the 'ears' and the money, buy the towers, and use the bookshelves as surrounds. I for one am still debating the center channel, and till then using the TVs own speakers fill in the center!

Many aficionados argue in favour of a dedicated two channel amp over the AVR, because for the same price point the amp has better circuitry than an AVR. But that is a choice one makes only when your requirement of listening to music has far higher priority than the visuals. Mine wasn't so clear cut. So while I may never buy the surrounds, though my avr is a 7.1, but having the capabilities that an AVR offers at hand was a must for me. This is not to say that AVRs are not good. I bought the Denon after reading a smattering of reviews giving it a high rating in the music capabilities. However, I was (and am) a novice in this field.

I am sure you will find many threads and posts, particularly those written by Venkat (mbr, dinyaar, and so many others) to be far more informative. There is however one advice that I took to heart, which was: 'Let your ears decide'. No matter how lucidly the sound is described in words, it can never match up to an actual audition. And your ears can disagree with others! I was lucky to join an audition of Viren's Tube amps pitched against SS amps that people brought and I did note that some of my (mental) notes did not match with what others were saying.

I'll also take the opportunity to add a little about the other stuff I bought later (though you have started a separate thread elsewhere). When I bought the Pio 410 dvd player, I wasn't really aware of the media players available. Now having got the WDTV I don't use the DVD player at all, except for the odd movies. I converted all of my favourite music for which I had CDs, into flac. So no more physical changing of disks and you can play tracks as per your choice/playlists. The music CDs too stay less prone to scratches and wear and tear. I wish WDTV had a nimbler menu navigation and wifi capability (which BTW can be hacked). The 'WDTV live' has it built in. One can use the laptop to drive the visuals and the sound, but they do not have a remote! In short If you don't watch too many movies, then use your laptop, and buy the media player for all your music.

I've little else to add, but feel free to come and have look at my system if you ever visit Delhi.
 
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sidomania

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well i am using the c10...just bought recently..watch tata sky+(component)
dont see any noise...i watch from abt 6-7 ft...
was interested in lgpq70(better looks,better sound,more features,menu)
bt thn i heard tht lg had IR problems..n high blue levels...samsung was also more prone to IR than panasonic..n also had read abt the buzzing noise...every1 seemed to recommend panasonic plasmas..so went for the c10..
reflection is certainly more..bt nt more thn my crt so m kinda ok with it...since its fyn with no direct light on it n when i watch movies i prefer complete darkness...what i miss is the lack of adjustments...
4 my use i guess the pana was the better choice since my usage is 30% tata sky..20% games..50% movies
n also had 3yrs warranty..
 

Vj@HiFi

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well i am using the c10...just bought recently..watch tata sky+(component)
dont see any noise...i watch from abt 6-7 ft...
was interested in lgpq70(better looks,better sound,more features,menu)
bt thn i heard tht lg had IR problems..n high blue levels...samsung was also more prone to IR than panasonic..n also had read abt the buzzing noise...every1 seemed to recommend panasonic plasmas..so went for the c10..
reflection is certainly more..bt nt more thn my crt so m kinda ok with it...since its fyn with no direct light on it n when i watch movies i prefer complete darkness...what i miss is the lack of adjustments...
4 my use i guess the pana was the better choice since my usage is 30% tata sky..20% games..50% movies
n also had 3yrs warranty..
Sidomania,

where are you located in Delhi?, Can I have a look in?
 

BLASTO

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Hi Guys, Yesterday was bandth in hyderabad and I spent it constructively.. :lol:

Took my old CRT TV and did a side by side comparo of the hathway signal.
The culprit is out now.. Its the hathway signal and not the LG TV deinterlacing.

Couple of reasons for the conclusion.

1) Very few channels are very good with hathway while most channels are approximated. This means the TV is handling the good channels well and so will it handle if the channels are good.

2) When you go very close and notice, the bad channels do have the bad charecteristics in the CRT also. Only not verymuch visible from far.

A picture is worth 1000 words.. I have posted by observations in the flickr..

LG PQ60 - a set on Flickr

Each picture has a description on what my expectation is and how it mismatches for bad channels. I have written down the approximated pictures in the description itself.

So, No problem with LG deinterlacing. It is as goos or better than the samsung. Also colour reproduction after caliberation as you will see in the pictures.

Leave your comments..

I will try to cover DVD movie and HD videos when free. Currently only SD from hathway.
 
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aazam

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LG 50 PQ70 or Sammy 50 B 450

what you guys suggest ...????
LG 50 PQ70 or Sammy 50 B 450
Both available at 59k

which one should be my pick...
 

BLASTO

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Re: LG 50 PQ70 or Sammy 50 B 450

what you guys suggest ...????
LG 50 PQ70 or Sammy 50 B 450
Both available at 59k

which one should be my pick...
Sorry I haven't demoed the 50 inchers..
Many consider 720p may not be sufficient resolution for a 50" TV because of bigger pixel size. Never saw one hence cannot comment.

I remember another member Himeshj got a 50" PQ70..
PM him about his overall experience and proceed..

As for 42", Iam fairly neutral.. It depends on your priority between features vs black levels. Though LG doesn't seem to be lagging too much behind in black level in day to day viewing.

If you get both TVs for the same price, samsung has an edge on brand value.
 

addagalla

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Re: LG 50 PQ70 or Sammy 50 B 450

what you guys suggest ...????
LG 50 PQ70 or Sammy 50 B 450
Both available at 59k

which one should be my pick...
I think this thread has enough findings to make your decision easy :) It still suggest do a side by side comparison of both and pick what you like keeping in mind the observations we guys posted here.
 
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