A Closer Look at the Fosi BT20A Pro and Aiyima A07 Amplifiers

@sudikpr and all the other participants of this thread....
I am a bit puzzled.. When the fosi is idle,
I mean no music is playing and no matter if its connected via rca or via Bluetooth the amp is always dissipating heat.. It's always pretty warm to touch....
How is that possible??? When fosi itself says that it consumes extremely low power while idle and according to them there is no need to switch it off hence there is no standby feature...

Care to shed your obserations please.....
Thanks

Every amplifier would have an idle current drawn, more or less depends on several factors like amplifier topology, always active components etc.
Class D topologies aren't different in this case, but surely more efficient.
Example, idle power:
Aiyima A07, A07 Pro, A07 Max, and Topping PA5 II takes around 6 - 8 watts
SMSL AO200 draws around 3-4 Watts
Hypex NC1xx, NC2xx takes around 30+ watts
Some IcePower modules are less than 30 watts as well
Purify goes arouns 50 - 60 watts

Interesting observation here is that power utilization probably does not necessarily rise until you use the amp up to SPL that does not need more power from amplifier. This simply means that these amplifiers will still consume approx. their idle power utilization on lower volume, lower volume is a relative term here and I am simply trying to imply the Class D efficiency factor here because I haven't observed the same with my class A/B Marantz and Yamaha.

To sum up:
- if you concerned about heating on idle, it should be almost negligible or none depending on placement and average ambient room temp.
- if you are concerned about power utilization on idle, then power off on the power supply side switch is best option

Hope it helps
 
Every amplifier would have an idle current drawn, more or less depends on several factors like amplifier topology, always active components etc.
Class D topologies aren't different in this case, but surely more efficient.
Example, idle power:
Aiyima A07, A07 Pro, A07 Max, and Topping PA5 II takes around 6 - 8 watts
SMSL AO200 draws around 3-4 Watts
Hypex NC1xx, NC2xx takes around 30+ watts
Some IcePower modules are less than 30 watts as well
Purify goes arouns 50 - 60 watts

Interesting observation here is that power utilization probably does not necessarily rise until you use the amp up to SPL that does not need more power from amplifier. This simply means that these amplifiers will still consume approx. their idle power utilization on lower volume, lower volume is a relative term here and I am simply trying to imply the Class D efficiency factor here because I haven't observed the same with my class A/B Marantz and Yamaha.

To sum up:
- if you concerned about heating on idle, it should be almost negligible or none depending on placement and average ambient room temp.
- if you are concerned about power utilization on idle, then power off on the power supply side switch is best option

Hope it helps
Thanks for the observation and kind input dear mate...
Power consumption isn't an issue however low or average.. But the thing is if idle power consumption is enough to make the amp warm the this this would definitely affect the lifespan of the circuit board of the amp, the amp ic or other hardware parts... This is what I don't want...

You are correct I now aleays switch it off from the wall socket itself hence disconnecting electricity to the power adaptor and the amp.
 
Thanks for the observation and kind input dear mate...
Power consumption isn't an issue however low or average.. But the thing is if idle power consumption is enough to make the amp warm the this this would definitely affect the lifespan of the circuit board of the amp, the amp ic or other hardware parts... This is what I don't want...

You are correct I now aleays switch it off from the wall socket itself hence disconnecting electricity to the power adaptor and the amp.

Although I don't think you should be too worries about life span as idle power isn't anywhere close enough to impact anything on the amplifier. Caps probably are most venerable with heat, specially if placed near the heat sink, but normally these amps are using caps rated @ 100 degree +.
If you have Aiyima A07/A07 pro then you can drill holes to the case to get a better heat dissipation.
You can even put a bigger/better ALU heat sink for much better performance, but may need cut the case appropriately to install taller heat sink.
 
By sheer coincidence, I was working on a DIY project last weekend, using the AmiciSense energy meter to determine the power consumption of various devices in our household, and I never expected it would come in handy for measuring my music system's power draw. Here are some pictures I've taken of both the A07 and BT20A Pro, with the toggle switch turned off and on.

tempImage9pSo8T.png

Aiyima A07 powered on, but the toggle switch is in the "off" position ~= 1.4W
tempImagehndYtK.png

Aiyima A07 powered on, toggle switch is in the "on" position but no songs being played ~= 3.7W
tempImage6D3WLe.png

Fosi BT20A Pro powered on, but the toggle switch is in the "off" position ~= 0.5w
tempImage6jcBJd.png

Fosi BT20A Pro powered on, toggle switch is in the "on" position but no songs being played ~= 3.5W
tempImageeLnX6v.png

Interesting to note that there was no change in power consumption even after playing a song at medium volume.

Also, please take note of the change in the input voltage from when I was measuring the A07 to the BT20A Pro. I'm not entirely sure why there's a drop, but I can conduct a few more experiments to ensure an equal comparison of parameters.
 
Very low power factor. Ideally PF should be above 0.8. Low power factor indicates voltage and current out of phase. But i'm not an electrical engineer. Perhaps @Subbu68 can explain if this is OK.
 
By sheer coincidence, I was working on a DIY project last weekend, using the AmiciSense energy meter to determine the power consumption of various devices in our household, and I never expected it would come in handy for measuring my music system's power draw. Here are some pictures I've taken of both the A07 and BT20A Pro, with the toggle switch turned off and on.

View attachment 80960

Aiyima A07 powered on, but the toggle switch is in the "off" position ~= 1.4W
View attachment 80961

Aiyima A07 powered on, toggle switch is in the "on" position but no songs being played ~= 3.7W
View attachment 80962

Fosi BT20A Pro powered on, but the toggle switch is in the "off" position ~= 0.5w
View attachment 80964

Fosi BT20A Pro powered on, toggle switch is in the "on" position but no songs being played ~= 3.5W
View attachment 80963

Interesting to note that there was no change in power consumption even after playing a song at medium volume.

Also, please take note of the change in the input voltage from when I was measuring the A07 to the BT20A Pro. I'm not entirely sure why there's a drop, but I can conduct a few more experiments to ensure an equal comparison of parameters.
This is interesting and truly enlightening,
Pretty strange that fosi consumes same amount of power while playing and idle..
I am definitely going to switch it off when not in use..
 
Very low power factor. Ideally PF should be above 0.8. Low power factor indicates voltage and current out of phase. But i'm not an electrical engineer. Perhaps @Subbu68 can explain if this is OK.
0.8pf is specified for general loads. If everyone kept 0.8pf, you have a healthy power network to serve you.

The power factor in this case is utterly poor. Perhaps due to the way Class D amps work?

From what I know, in Class D they are somewhat like a SMPS, switching the audio signals and passing into a Low Pass filter consisting of inductors and capacitors to convert to analog voltage replica of the digital audio signal to drive the speakers. So the real power flow is in the final low pass filter comprising inductors and capacitors. Caps and coils consume reactive power not active power except for minor losses in them. Maybe that's why the active power that this meter shows is very low. Now that may explain why they say Class D consume less power than other classes ???

Someone who is an expert in Class D amps could correct me if my understanding of Class D is right.

The active power consumed is V x I x pf and the readings line up with the calcs though not exact and energy consumed is low. Energy is always cumulative - power x time and energy meters aggregate over say 15 minutes and update the reading. If you left it on in quiescent stage does the value change? else it is a dummy digit.

Now for poor power factor - the VA or apparent power consumed is V x I. In 3.5W case it is 11.64VA whereas active power is just 3.5W. pf is Active power / Apparent Power. But for the power network including your house wiring it will not be good. If scaling up to a 1000W Class D may be actually it may be drawing 3000VA or more. Your wiring has to be hence sized for that because the total VA is the demand on the electricity line you have. If the EB puts a tri-vector meter that reads the maximum demand and charged for that, you had it :cool:
 
Thanks for sharing the details about SMPS converters. Honestly, I never really looked into how they work compared to linear power supplies, so your explanation was quite helpful.

Regarding the 3-pin versus 2-pin issue, it's interesting to hear your observations. I've seen laptops with 3-pin power supplies too, and it does make me wonder why these amplifiers use 2-pin plugs.

And, by the way, I appreciate you mentioning the opamps and their potential differences. It's cool that these amps allow for opamp replacement, and I'm curious try that out.
That 3rd pin on the plug is to activate the shutter of UK standards sockets. Else as @mbhangui wrote it has no electrical function in a SMPS power supply.
 
The active power consumed is V x I x pf and the readings line up with the calcs though not exact and energy consumed is low. Energy is always cumulative - power x time and energy meters aggregate over say 15 minutes and update the reading. If you left it on in quiescent stage does the value change? else it is a dummy digit.
Thank you for this explanation and the formula. It is good to gain some knowledge now and then. Regarding the value changing from the quiescent stage to when the amp is really playing some music, I did have this doubt if the reading of the pf as shown is accurate or not.
 
By sheer coincidence, I was working on a DIY project last weekend, using the AmiciSense energy meter to determine the power consumption of various devices in our household, and I never expected it would come in handy for measuring my music system's power draw. Here are some pictures I've taken of both the A07 and BT20A Pro, with the toggle switch turned off and on.

View attachment 80960

Aiyima A07 powered on, but the toggle switch is in the "off" position ~= 1.4W
View attachment 80961

Aiyima A07 powered on, toggle switch is in the "on" position but no songs being played ~= 3.7W
View attachment 80962

Fosi BT20A Pro powered on, but the toggle switch is in the "off" position ~= 0.5w
View attachment 80964

Fosi BT20A Pro powered on, toggle switch is in the "on" position but no songs being played ~= 3.5W
View attachment 80963

Interesting to note that there was no change in power consumption even after playing a song at medium volume.

Also, please take note of the change in the input voltage from when I was measuring the A07 to the BT20A Pro. I'm not entirely sure why there's a drop, but I can conduct a few more experiments to ensure an equal comparison of parameters.

Your results are slightly different then mine, don't know if its because of any difference in the product we get in US or differences in measuring equipment.
I use "Gardner Bender Energy Usage Power Meter".
Never the less, its useful info.
 
The active power consumed is V x I x pf and the readings line up with the calcs though not exact and energy consumed is low. Energy is always cumulative - power x time and energy meters aggregate over say 15 minutes and update the reading. If you left it on in quiescent stage does the value change? else it is a dummy digit.
Thank you for sharing your insights, @Subbu68 . In response to your concern about cumulative readings, you are right. The wattage readings tend to fluctuate within a range of approximately ±0.1 value. The reading denoted with the unit "kWh" is indeed the cumulative reading, and there's a reset button available to clear it. The 0.53 kWh reading represents the accumulation of charging my robot vacuum cleaner over the course of a week.

Up to this point, I've only used this energy meter on a handful of devices, and I haven't encountered a power factor (PF) greater than 0.55. The behavior of the Amazon Echo Dot was particularly interesting. During idle periods, the Echo Dot consistently showed 0 watts of consumption. It was only when I invoked the device using voice commands that it consumed around 1.5 to 2 watts with a power factor of 0.45, depending on the speaker volume. The 0 watts reading made me wonder about the efficiency of the circuit inside the device.

@guddu478 thanks for letting us know that you see slightly different values. Can you recall whether your Power Factor readings were also as low as the ones I have posted?
 
Thank you for sharing your insights, @Subbu68 . In response to your concern about cumulative readings, you are right. The wattage readings tend to fluctuate within a range of approximately ±0.1 value. The reading denoted with the unit "kWh" is indeed the cumulative reading, and there's a reset button available to clear it. The 0.53 kWh reading represents the accumulation of charging my robot vacuum cleaner over the course of a week.

Up to this point, I've only used this energy meter on a handful of devices, and I haven't encountered a power factor (PF) greater than 0.55. The behavior of the Amazon Echo Dot was particularly interesting. During idle periods, the Echo Dot consistently showed 0 watts of consumption. It was only when I invoked the device using voice commands that it consumed around 1.5 to 2 watts with a power factor of 0.45, depending on the speaker volume. The 0 watts reading made me wonder about the efficiency of the circuit inside the device.

@guddu478 thanks for letting us know that you see slightly different values. Can you recall whether your Power Factor readings were also as low as the ones I have posted?
I do not know your background but from the DIY and experiments you do I assume you are familiar with electricity and the parameters. I am trying not to go into a power system engineer language.

Apparent Power in VA / kVA / MVA) or Voltage x Current = Active Power (Watts/kW/MW) + Reactive Power (VAr / kVAr / MVAr) (vector addition not arithmetical). This is the total demand of any consumer.

Active Power does the "real work". Reactive Power supports the magnetic system of say motor, transformer etc.

A pure resistive load like an incandescent lamp has a pf pf 1.0 . If you have one at home plug it into that measuring device you have and you should be able to see it . This is the ideal world. Generators have to supply only the real energy you consume.

Straight conversion - chemical energy on coal > steam > mechanical energy of turbine > electrical energy from generator > your load.

Take a motor, it needs to "power" the magnetic circuits too. That is the reactive power. Without going into the phasor / vectors or trigonometry, motors consume reactive power and have a lagging pf. This has to be supplied by the power network i.e., from the magnetic field of the thousands of generators on the grid . If everyone have low pf loads the actual current flowing in the network increases as MVA demand goes up and result in voltage sags.

To reduce this as @mbhangui wrote, the regulations say one must not go below 0.8pf.

Meanwhile a capacitor is a friend of power system (too much is also not good). It supplies the reactive power when connected to the network and Industrial consumers are required to install capacitors to supply the reactive power for their motors and maintain the pf >0.8. Else they get charged for the excessive kVA demand.

If pf is low and below 0.8 it simply means the load is consuming a lot of reactive power.

Most domestic products like your Echo Dot do not comply with this unless they are certified to some national standard and you see those low pf values.

Hope this helps
 
@guddu478 thanks for letting us know that you see slightly different values. Can you recall whether your Power Factor readings were also as low as the ones I have posted?

I use 36v 6a (and another 38v 3a) PSU, so whatever amperes it draws get to calculation in relation with 6 ohm speaker load while in operation.
W.r.t. idle, speaker load does not matter.
 
I had the chance to listen to two budget class-D amplifiers, namely the Aiyima A07 and the Fosi BT20A Pro. I'd like to share my thoughts and experiences with these amplifiers, with the hope that it might assist someone who's trying to decide between the two. While I don't claim to be a seasoned audiophile and haven't had the opportunity to audition numerous other amplifiers, I can certainly provide a comparative analysis of these two models.

View attachment 80362

Getting Started
The Fosi Audio BT20A Pro and Aiyima A07 are compact Class D stereo amplifiers, driven by the Texas Instruments TPA3255 chip. They both come with relatively large DC adaptors. The BT20A Pro is accompanied by a 32V 5A adaptor, while the A07 ships with a 36V 6A adaptor. Additionally, the BT20A Pro offers Bluetooth 5.0 connectivity and incorporates tone controls, features that the A07 lacks.

Exterior Design and Appearance
The BT20A Pro's panel design caters to those who appreciate vibrant colors. Its distinctive orange aluminum knob stands out as a striking contrast. However, if your audio setup predominantly features black components, the BT20A Pro's appearance might not blend seamlessly. On the other hand, the A07 boasts a classic black panel that appeals to individuals with more traditional tastes.

Now, about its size. The BT20A pro is a bit on the compact side, especially when compared to the Aiyima A07. But honestly, I'm not entirely convinced that compactness is a major advantage when it comes to amplifiers, at least not in terms of usability. Personally, I'm someone who appreciates a beefier volume knob. The BT20A Pro, with its eye-catching orange knob, does look fantastic, but it's a bit too small for my liking. And let's not forget, they've got those two tone control knobs to fit in there too, making for quite a crowded space.

View attachment 80363

One gripe I have is that these knobs lack any markings for minimum or maximum limits. The tone control knobs are nicely centered at the 12 o'clock position, which is great. But here's where it gets tricky – if you assume the same scale for the volume knob, you're in for a surprise. Nope, the 50% volume setting is at 2 o'clock on the knob, not the expected 12 o'clock. A bit more intuitive marking would have been a welcome addition.

Comparatively, the Aiyima A07, without the tone controls, offers a more spacious front panel with ample space for a comfortably-sized volume knob, complete with clear markings indicating the minimum and maximum limits.

image-jpeg.80364


Shifting our focus to the rear panels of both amplifiers, you'll find they both feature standard RCA connectors for input as well as a 3.5mm AUX port that can serve as both input and output. Additionally, they come equipped with two sets of compact speaker binding posts. I would suggest opting for banana plugs when connecting your speakers since dealing with bare wires can be a bit tricky due to the closely placed terminals.

The Aux port provides the flexibility to connect to a powered subwoofer or another amplifier, making it suitable for setting up a separate audio zone. Now, here's where they differ: with the A07, the Aux out functions as a pure bypass. It allows the signal to pass through even if the amplifier is in standby mode. However, please note that there's no volume control for the pre-out on the A07.

On the other hand, the BT20A Pro offers a pre-out with volume control. This means that it's not just a simple bypass; you can adjust the volume. This feature can be quite advantageous for multi-zone audio setups, as you can control the volume for the 2nd zone using the BT20A Pro. Interestingly, when you switch off the BT20A Pro amplifier, the volume controls on the pre-out are bypassed as well.

Lastly, concerning the DC input, both amplifiers can handle a voltage range of 24V to 48V, allowing you to use a compatible adapter within this range depending on how much juice you need for your setup.

Sound Quality
When it comes to sound quality, both amplifiers truly shines, offering an impressive audio experience considering its affordable price point. It delivers clean and detailed sound with a warm signature that suits a wide range of music genres.

To compare its sound quality with the Aiyima A07, I conducted an A/B test using a DIY connector to switch between both amplifiers connected to my Elac Debut B2.6 speakers. The source was an SMSL D6 DAC. It's worth noting that this setup isn't perfect because the Aiyima A07 came with a 36V 6A DC adapter, while the BT20A Pro had a 32V 5A adapter. To level the playing field, I adjusted the Aiyima A07's volume to 50% and the BT20A Pro's to around 75% until they sounded equally loud.

View attachment 80365View attachment 80366

I even swapped the DC adapters between the amplifiers (with appropriate volume adjustments), and the results remained consistent. In blind A/B testing, the sound from both amplifiers was indistinguishable. However, there was a subtle difference in bass response with the BT20A Pro, which seemed slightly more pronounced compared to the Aiyima A07. I ensured that the tone control knobs were set to neutral positions. It's unclear whether this increase in bass was due to a minor discrepancy in the detents or if the original recording itself contained that extra bass, which the Aiyima A07 wasn't reproducing. This difference was noticeable only during the A/B testing setup, and during normal listening, it's hardly discernible.

Tone Controls on the Fosi BT20A
Now, I know in the audiophile world, some folks frown upon the very idea of having tone controls. But personally, I think having the option to fine-tune your treble and bass is a good thing.

The tone control knobs come with these neat little neutral detents, which are essentially these handy midpoint markers. Setting them to a neutral position is a breeze, and the feedback you get from these detents is pretty satisfying.

And now, the important part – do the tone controls actually work? Yes, they do, and they work well. Cranking up the bass by about 50% really does make a noticeable difference. I mean, you can practically feel the air whooshing out of those speaker ports. If you're into movie nights with some seriously beefed-up bass, this feature is right up your alley.

Now, when we turn our attention to the Aiyima A07, it takes a different approach. You won't find any tone controls here. If you're the kind of listener who believes in experiencing music exactly as the producer intended, this might strike a chord with you. After all, in the budget class, most people aren't obsessing over these details. It all comes down to personal preference, and both amplifiers cater to different tastes in this regard.

Bluetooth on the BT20A Pro

The Bluetooth connectivity is quite convenient, providing reliable performance even at distances of up to 30 feet. However, there's a minor quirk when it comes to Bluetooth functionality. When the amplifier is in pairing mode, it emits a subtle ticking sound through the speakers. This sound is only audible when you're in close proximity to the speakers and actively listening for it.

Additionally, the Bluetooth input takes precedence over the RCA connectors. If a previously paired Bluetooth device comes within range, the input automatically switches to Bluetooth mode. You'll notice this switch when the red LED indicator turns blue, indicating a Bluetooth connection.

To unpair a device, you'll need to perform a long press on the volume knob. However, I found that this long press lasts longer than 5 seconds, which might be a bit cumbersome. Shortening it to around 3 seconds could make the unpairing process more intuitive and efficient.

It is compatible with Bluetooth 5.0, but I would have preferred support for the latest Bluetooth codecs such as aptX and LDAC.

Heating

During a visit to a friend's place, I had the opportunity to experience the heat dissipation from a Class AB amplifier. It was almost like those amplifiers could double up as a stovetop for slow cooking! However, these Class D amplifiers are an entirely different story. I've run them for extended periods, sometimes exceeding 4 hours, at 50% volume, and they remained only slightly warm to the touch.

DC Adaptor Grounding Issue

An interesting point to note is that even though these adaptors have a 3-pin plug that connects to the socket, they only have 2 pins on the adaptor itself. This can result in a slight electrical tingling sensation when touching the amplifier. This "ground leak" issue can manifest as a faint hissing sound when the amplifiers are connected to speakers.

View attachment 80367

A simple solution to this problem is to run an external wire to establish a proper ground connection. In my setup, I utilized an empty coaxial socket on my external DAC to run a wire to the socket's ground. Once this is done, the slight hiss disappears.

Conclusion
For those contemplating between the Aiyima A07 and the Fosi Audio BT20A Pro, it's clear that both offer similar sound quality. Your choice should primarily depend on your specific needs. If you're in search of a straightforward power amplifier, the Aiyima A07 is the way to go. However, if you desire additional features like tone controls and Bluetooth connectivity, then the Fosi Audio BT20A Pro is the obvious choice. Additionally, the volume-controlled pre-out on the BT20A Pro is a valuable feature for multi-zone audio setups.

If you happen to possess either of these amplifiers, I'd love to hear your thoughts and comments regarding their performance.

tempimagehrw3ht-jpg.80368
Can you provide contact details to buy fosi audio amps
 
These cheap Class D are decent enough for entry level bookshelves but class AB is definitely better.

I have the BT30D Pro from Fosi and it works alright but it does tend to get harsh with already bordering on bright speakers like Focal.

It also lacks the oomph for my Wharfedale Lintons and sounds hollow.
 
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