As expected, did not get WAF approval for 1/3rd room width placement. Tried 1/5 th placement but that makes sound shrill and bright. Went back to my earlier placement which has more balanced tonality. Distance from the front wall is still the same and has WAF approval.
A King was crowned today! - Review of the JBL 4343 and co.
- Thread starter audiopro
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keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Right, she doesn't cross me!There’s only one golden rule for us married audiophiles: don’t cross the boss
My speaker setup is as below,
1. Ratio of Distance from side walls (Left / Right) to the driver center to the distance from front wall to the baffle = 1/3
2.the distance between Left and Right driver center = distance from front wall to the baffle
3. Width of the wall = distance from the Left / Right baffle center to the sweet spot listening position.
4. Ratio of front wall to baffle to baffle to sweet listening spot = 0.6 a Golden Ratio
Quoting my example:
1. 23.5" / 71"
2. Left speaker center to Right speaker center = 71
3. 118" = 118"
4. 71/118 = 0.6
This gives me the optimum balance of tonality after trying numerous iterations of speaker placement in my room.
Ironically 23.5 is 1/5 the room width of 118 but that's from the driver center and not the inner edge of the baffle.
1. Ratio of Distance from side walls (Left / Right) to the driver center to the distance from front wall to the baffle = 1/3
2.the distance between Left and Right driver center = distance from front wall to the baffle
3. Width of the wall = distance from the Left / Right baffle center to the sweet spot listening position.
4. Ratio of front wall to baffle to baffle to sweet listening spot = 0.6 a Golden Ratio
Quoting my example:
1. 23.5" / 71"
2. Left speaker center to Right speaker center = 71
3. 118" = 118"
4. 71/118 = 0.6
This gives me the optimum balance of tonality after trying numerous iterations of speaker placement in my room.
Ironically 23.5 is 1/5 the room width of 118 but that's from the driver center and not the inner edge of the baffle.
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See how the placements of Prem and Hari Iyer differ! My own ideal speaker position is way different from either of these. Just goes to show that there are many variables - driver characteristics, cabinet size, room shape, room size, furniture, furnishings and, most importantly, your 'Golden Ears'. The suggested placements can be a good starting point, but one needs to do a literal speaker 'crawl' from there to realise the best. The point really is that speaker placement makes a big big difference, and if we work hard enough at it, we will find a placement that is magical.
Cheers!
Cheers!
Hi Hari for one fifth and one seventh, you measure from centre of speakers to side wall and for one third you measure from inside of speaker to side wall.
So your speakers are set up using one fifth principle from side wall
Hi fiftyfifty, the one third principle has nothing to do with the speakers. It has to do with how room nodes interact. Room node interaction is supposedly lowest at one third of side wall distance between the centre of speakers. But this is not practical. So next best is one third between the insides. Then one fifth between centre of speakers. And so on. Depending on driver dispersion, you may need to add some treatment.
The quarter wave principle is one of the techniques studio engineers use to determine studio treatment. Typically they use a combination of monitors and big 18 inchers. If monitor cut off is 50 hz, they will see if they can place it at 94 inches from front wall. If yes, the 18 inchers will be placed flushed on the front wall so that it acts like an infinite baffle. If such distances are not possible, then depending on where the monitor is placed, they will know what frequency they need to absorb. This is the normally the first step towards figuring out what treatment to do for a studio.
There are other ways of approaching speaker placement, but I find above a very good start point
To further add to above, since my speaker is 94 inches from front wall, I have taken care upto 50 hz. For below 50 hz, I will technically need to have absorbers on the front wall. I will need to have a specially made absorber for this. I cannot use a broad band absorber since most of the problems are taken care of using quarter wave. Use of absorbers for below 50 hz will further improve the sound in my room, but I let it go since it’s not practical
So your speakers are set up using one fifth principle from side wall
Hi fiftyfifty, the one third principle has nothing to do with the speakers. It has to do with how room nodes interact. Room node interaction is supposedly lowest at one third of side wall distance between the centre of speakers. But this is not practical. So next best is one third between the insides. Then one fifth between centre of speakers. And so on. Depending on driver dispersion, you may need to add some treatment.
The quarter wave principle is one of the techniques studio engineers use to determine studio treatment. Typically they use a combination of monitors and big 18 inchers. If monitor cut off is 50 hz, they will see if they can place it at 94 inches from front wall. If yes, the 18 inchers will be placed flushed on the front wall so that it acts like an infinite baffle. If such distances are not possible, then depending on where the monitor is placed, they will know what frequency they need to absorb. This is the normally the first step towards figuring out what treatment to do for a studio.
There are other ways of approaching speaker placement, but I find above a very good start point
To further add to above, since my speaker is 94 inches from front wall, I have taken care upto 50 hz. For below 50 hz, I will technically need to have absorbers on the front wall. I will need to have a specially made absorber for this. I cannot use a broad band absorber since most of the problems are taken care of using quarter wave. Use of absorbers for below 50 hz will further improve the sound in my room, but I let it go since it’s not practical
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square_wave
Well-Known Member
Such a lovely writeup. Thanks a lot for the effort audiopro. Beautifully captures what these speakers are all about. Also, it is a glimpse into the mindset needed when you set out to achieve that last ten percent in high end audio performance.
@prem Are you suggesting that positioning the centre of the baffle at one third from the side walls is better than doing that in line with the inner walls of the speaker? I did try centre of baffle at 1/3 and the sound is very different as compared to the inner wall method. There is no loss of sound stage width, but one needs to go near field to experience the best.
Regards
Regards
One third from centre of baffle to side wall is technically better but you will need at least a 20 feet wall. Else the speakers will get very close to each other. Which is why the one third distance from inside wall is more workable.
What differences did you hear in the two placement scenarios?
When I am setting up the speakers, I concentrate only on tone and dynamics. Soundstage is normally a function of the recording and mastering of which I have no idea.
What differences did you hear in the two placement scenarios?
When I am setting up the speakers, I concentrate only on tone and dynamics. Soundstage is normally a function of the recording and mastering of which I have no idea.
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If the speakers are broad, the difference between inner wall and centre can be significant, not just a couple of inches
Yes. Mine are 25 inches wide. I use one third from inner sidewall since width of wall is only 11 feet.
Determining distance of speaker baffle from front wall is way more challenging. That actually decides if the speaker sings with the room or not. If you get that right, you can even sit behind the speaker and it will sound nice. When Audiopro was at home he enjoyed sitting behind the speakers and listening to music. He found it fascinating that it actually sounded good
Determining distance of speaker baffle from front wall is way more challenging. That actually decides if the speaker sings with the room or not. If you get that right, you can even sit behind the speaker and it will sound nice. When Audiopro was at home he enjoyed sitting behind the speakers and listening to music. He found it fascinating that it actually sounded good
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Hey that's my secret spot! Not sharing it with anyone! Lol...
Yes, I agree that is more challenging. My room is roughly 21ft x 14ft. Applying your method will bring the speakers to almost the center of the room and I'll have no option but to listen from behind the speakers
I find it best to set them around halfway between 1/3 and 1/5th. I had to do a literal speaker crawl to get there. Need those Herbies!
Yes, I agree that is more challenging. My room is roughly 21ft x 14ft. Applying your method will bring the speakers to almost the center of the room and I'll have no option but to listen from behind the speakers
I find it best to set them around halfway between 1/3 and 1/5th. I had to do a literal speaker crawl to get there. Need those Herbies!
Which speaker did you use? The spendor or the Logan? Can u share pics? Gives an easier perspective for one to understand.
What frequency did you use to calculate the distance ? On prems suggestion, I did so for 50 Hz (despite my speaker going down to 29) got around 2.16m which I used as baseline and moved around and it worked well ..not optimum but far better than the 1/5th.Yes, I agree that is more challenging. My room is roughly 21ft x 14ft. Applying your method will bring the speakers to almost the center of the room and I'll have no option but to listen from behind the speakers
I find it best to set them around halfway between 1/3 and 1/5th. I had to do a literal speaker crawl to get there. Need those Herbies!
For sides I used 1/3rd from inner edge.
Spendor.
Here's a pic:
Any frequency in that region will result in a distance of 90+ inches, which is not possible in my room.
That's a pretty cd player down there
What happens if you remove the diffusers behind the speakers? What amp is powering this handsome looking fellow.
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