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A Repository of links to Myth-Debunking Articles

Wharfedale EVO4.4 Speaker

trittya

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Here's commencing the myth busting compilation.
Would be great if this thread sees maximum participation and contribution of such links, links, links ......

FMs are requested to commence fresh threads for discussion on each specific aspect/link.

That way, this thread shall be able to serve as a repository of sorts. So, when a discussion needs to take place, we could copy and paste the link in a new thread and then carry on . . .
Here goes. . . .
Cheerio.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY5hI98HEi0&feature=related

Especially pages 5 to 8 of this
http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_26_r.pdf

How can any myth-busting compilation be complete w/o this????

http://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge

http://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge-page-2

http://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge-page-3

http://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge-page-4

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-01-06/#feature

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#thetruth

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#alllowcost

http://eetimes.com/electronics-blogs/audio-designline-blog/4033468/Audio-myth-Vinyl-better-than-CD

http://eetimes.com/electronics-blog...g/4033495/Vinyl-LP-comeback--wishful-thinking

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-...-blog/4033509/Vinyl-vs-CD-myths-refuse-to-die

http://www.sandman.co.nz/index.php?page=cable_nonsense.php

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/50041-6-tomshardware

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm

http://phineasgage.wordpress.com/2007/10/13/audiophiles-and-the-limitations-of-human-hearing/

This one is a RIOT. And to think that people actually spend $$$$ buying such stuff. The ultimate in audiophool grade snake-oil here
http://www.shunmook.com/text1.htm

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/podcast...66-speaker-wire-myths-busted-.php&h=NAQFXxbNJ

http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2011/11/believe-in-better.cfm

http://www.wineanorak.com/musicandwine.pdf

http://www.sennheiser-annualreport.com/home/en/the_palate_has_ears.html

https://sites.google.com/site/audiosocietyofminnesota/Home/april-2012-speaker-cable-listening-test

http://www.stereophile.com/features/113/index.html

http://mp3ornot.com/

http://www.westerlunds.se/blindtesteng.htm

http://www.avforums.com/forums/inte...ring-nordost-interconnects-speaker-cable.html

http://www.stereomojo.com/Stereomojo Six DAC Shootout.htm/StereomojoSixDACShootout.htm

http://www.avsforum.com/t/941184/observations-of-a-controlled-cable-test

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_24_r.pdf

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120044692027492991.html.html?mod=technology_main_promo_left

http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/Wired Wisdom.pdf

http://translate.google.com/transla...ecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29781210

http://translate.google.com/transla...x-jurys-experts-et-lecteurs-p770_6175_93.html

http://www.head-fi.org/t/190566/blind-cable-taste-test-results

http://www.stereomojo.com/SHOOTOUT2007INTEGRATEDS.htm

http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/To Tweak or Not.pdf

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=7953

http://www.cowanaudio.com/

http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/wishful_thinking.htm

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/12752-blind-listening-tests-amplifiers.html

http://seanolive.blogspot.in/2009/04/dishonesty-of-sighted-audio-product.html

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?654-The-Great-Cable-Debate&highlight=blind+test

http://www.auricles.com/new_page_41.htm

http://www.aes.org/sections/pnw/pnwrecaps/2000/lampen/

http://www.hometheaterfocus.com/receivers/amplifier-sound-quality.aspx

http://www.apiguide.net/04actu/04musik/AES-cableInteractions.pdf

http://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_index.php

http://www.head-fi.org/t/513481/are-blind-tests-bogus-examples-of-blind-tests-with-positive-results

http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Audio_woo

http://s88932719.onlinehome.us/audio_bs.htm

http://www.head-fi.org/t/486598/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths

http://www.ioa.org.uk/uploads/event-documents/Midalnds 30.3.2011.pdf

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Electro...hs/pcmcat253800050013.c?id=pcmcat253800050013

http://www.salksound.com/wp/?p=169
http://www.salksound.com/wp/?p=175


Warm Regards, ALL;):):)
 
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thatguy

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Trittya, thanks for your effort. Though it reminds me of a sher by Faiz (with apologies to those who don't understand Hindi)

Jo tumharee maan le naaseha, to rahega daaman-e-dil me kya
Na kisee adoo ki adaawateN, na kisi sanam ki murawwatein

(naaseha - preacher, adoo - enemy, adaawat - enimity, murawwat - kindness )

The Human species does not tolerate too much reality. - Eliot
 
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trittya

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Trittya, thanks for your effort. Though it reminds me of a sher by Faiz (with apologies to those who don't understand Hindi)

Jo tumharee maan le naaseha, to rahega daaman-e-dil me kya
Na kisee adoo ki adaawateN, na kisi sanam ki murawwatein

(naaseha - preacher, adoo - enemy, adaawat - enimity, murawwat - kindness )

The Human species does not tolerate too much reality. - Eliot
:clapping::signthankspin::eek:hyeah::lol:;):)
Wah! Wah! Very well said, Thatguy.

Samajhne waley samajh gaye
Jo na samjha woh Anaari hai . . .
:rolleyes::cool::D

(Those who had to understand would have understood,
Those who haven't need a "street-wisdom-supplement")

This is a good idea.
Thanks for the kind words, Mate. Much appreciated.:):)
 
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Thad E Ginathom

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Wow! Have you got them all there? :)

That first video from Ethan Winer was one of my early meetings with audio reality.

Don/t forget NwAvGuy's writings on objectivity. Van Alstine gives us a cable challenge (but people must read through to the results, or the impression from the challenge alone will be skewed.
 

trittya

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Greetings, FM Thad E Ginathom and thnks for the contribution as well as the encouraging words.:)

Wow! Have you got them all there? :)
Tried to post as many links as I could muster at one go. Intend to add as when I stumble upon more.;)
(but people must read through to the results, or the impression from the challenge alone will be skewed.
Tall order, eh, Guys?:lol:
I think NOT !!!:rolleyes::indifferent14:

But, 130 views, 4 replies and just one contribution,:(:confused: do tend to remind one of this
The Human species does not tolerate too much reality. - Eliot
:D:eek:hyeah::lol:

Cheerio
 

Nikhil

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My favorite is the Carver amp challenge which was a huge story back in the day. Great to see it after a long time.

I'd like to add a little to the parts on the "cable myths". Definitely I'm not one to spring for the $8,000 a pair types of cables that are being sold by high end brands but its important not to use too broad a brush and label all cables as myth. There are some solid principles involving metallurgy, conductance, insulation etc which govern the performance of good cables. Proper selection with the help of knowledge can make a tremendous difference in the performance of a system.
 

trittya

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My favorite is the Carver amp challenge which was a huge story back in the day. Great to see it after a long time.
Yeah, and to think that Bob Carver did all that stuff just with a slide rule and calculator.


I'd like to add a little to the parts on the "cable myths". Definitely I'm not one to spring for the $8,000 a pair types of cables that are being sold by high end brands but its important not to use too broad a brush and label all cables as myth. There are some solid principles involving metallurgy, conductance, insulation etc which govern the performance of good cables. Proper selection with the help of knowledge can make a tremendous difference in the performance of a system.
Agree with you especially on this bit -
"solid principles involving metallurgy, conductance, insulation etc which govern the performance of good cables".
Would just like to add that these go a long way to fulfill all that you have said and then some.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/21032011657.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/196/21032011674.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/21032011655.jpg/

Sorry about the lo-res pics.
Now, this is a pair made out of BSNL grade tele cable.:D
Each channel pair comprises of 6 pairs of tele cable ie 3 pairs braided as such.;)
That makes it 12 single core cables per channel.:eek:hyeah:
They have all the ingredients you mentioned incl a glass-fiber rib for strength.:cool::yahoo:

Outdoor tele cables y'know. . . .:)

Cheerio
 
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Nikhil

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Now, this is a pair made out of BSNL grade tele cable.:D
Each channel pair comprises of 6 pairs of tele cable ie 3 pairs braided as such.;)
That makes it 12 single core cables per channel.:eek:hyeah:
They have all the ingredients you mentioned incl a glass-fiber rib for strength.:cool::yahoo:

Outdoor tele cables y'know. . . .:)

Cheerio


Great stuff trittya! Sorry I missed your reply as I was traveling last week.
Thanks for sharing the pictures. Very nice DIY work.
 

ajinkya

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Trittya,

Great compilation! Will have to spend a lot of time to truly appreciate the details of some of the articles but thanks very much for the effort in starting this very useful repository and thread.
 

Staxxx

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I seem to sit lonely in the "other" camp :(
I personally think one man's myths are another man's mantras......so to each his own in the audio world.
The articles are definitely fun to read, although some of them are now themselves superceded by others who think differently, And technology does change (and usually improve) so nice to see articles refuting each other. However, it is tough to keep a thread like this balanced.
On a personal note, I am always stunned by the strong views of some people, not everyone of course, who have not experienced enough, lets say, $10k cables in appropriately revealing rigs, and yet able to feel confident to dismissing them because of the price rather than what they bring to the table, having heard one or two examples between which, on that day and in that system, they could not discern a difference between.
Also, as mentioned in several threads earlier, at the most esoteric levels of this hobby, audio pricing is often not a result of just the components within the box, but also paying for their r&d, marketing, function of units they expect to sell etc. and sometimes also of course, as many have pointed out in this thread, just what they can charge and someone will pay. Value is sometimes so difficult to judge!
$10k may be a lot to me, but I know a fair few persons who have tried, owned, experienced and believe that for the level of audio reproduction that they are striving to enjoy, one cannot even begin to experience this at anything near that level of expenditure......
I will not be surprised if this liberal post will draw much criticism.
 

thatguy

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Another one (I haven't dug into all your links, so apologies if one of your posts already has it).

James Randi's one million dollar challenge to Michael Fremmer. Unfortunately, the test didn't happen and the story ended with everyone calling each other names.

Stereophile's version of the story
The Swift Boating of Audiophiles | Stereophile.com

Randi's version of the story
SWIFT October 12, 2007

News articles (first announcing the test and then of everyone crying foul)

UPDATED: Journalist Accepts $1 Million Challenge: Do $7250 Cables Sound Better or Not?

Pear Cable CEO Calls James Randi's $1 Million Offer a Hoax

Who would I put my money on? Considering how much audiophiles hate the tone control knobs (and still want the control), the tone control role has shifted to interconnects and cables. I would have bet on Fremmer winning this one.
 
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trittya

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I seem to sit lonely in the "other" camp :(
I personally think one man's myths are another man's mantras......so to each his own in the audio world.
The articles are definitely fun to read, although some of them are now themselves superceded by others who think differently, And technology does change (and usually improve) so nice to see articles refuting each other. However, it is tough to keep a thread like this balanced.
On a personal note, I am always stunned by the strong views of some people, not everyone of course, who have not experienced enough, lets say, $10k cables in appropriately revealing rigs, and yet able to feel confident to dismissing them because of the price rather than what they bring to the table, having heard one or two examples between which, on that day and in that system, they could not discern a difference between.
Also, as mentioned in several threads earlier, at the most esoteric levels of this hobby, audio pricing is often not a result of just the components within the box, but also paying for their r&d, marketing, function of units they expect to sell etc. and sometimes also of course, as many have pointed out in this thread, just what they can charge and someone will pay. Value is sometimes so difficult to judge!
$10k may be a lot to me, but I know a fair few persons who have tried, owned, experienced and believe that for the level of audio reproduction that they are striving to enjoy, one cannot even begin to experience this at anything near that level of expenditure......
I will not be surprised if this liberal post will draw much criticism.

Well Said, Staxxx:clapping::eek:hyeah:
Personally speaking, though, 80-85% of the performance at 5-15% of the price works fine for me.:lol::yahoo:
 
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thatguy

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Here is Pear cables explanation on why their cables are better

Pear Cable Audio Cables - Cable Measurements - Frequency Response Plot

By allowing a virtually flat frequency response all the way to 20 kHz, the Comice Cables used in this test preserve the harmonic information of the original recording. When this system is compared side by side in listening tests, the difference is obvious. The "Other Cables" sound much harsher and tinny. Pear Cables on the other hand will sound far more natural, with an infinitely improved soundstage, because they are more accurate.

Hmm ... would supressing high frequency make a system sound tinny? I am sure the cables must be good, but couldn't they come out with a better write up. Or keep a dignified silence. Frequency response plot to prove the superiority of a system is amateurish.
 

Staxxx

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Well Said, Staxxx:clapping::eek:hyeah:
Personally speaking, though, 80-85% of the performance at 5-15% of the price works fine for me.:lol::yahoo:

Yes there is absolutely no doubting the law of diminishing returns......but some people really do not care...and I am sadly (or fortunately) in that camp :)
 

Thad E Ginathom

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Yes there is absolutely no doubting the law of diminishing returns.....
...$10k may be a lot to me, but I know a fair few persons who have tried, owned, experienced and believe that for the level of audio reproduction that they are striving to enjoy, one cannot even begin to experience this at anything near that level of expenditure......
I will not be surprised if this liberal post will draw much criticism.

This is why I find van Alstine's challenge and result so interesting. He finds the set of test cables not to measure any differently, and not, reliably, to ear-test differently, and he considers that the cost could be far, far better spent for a far, far bigger improvement, but, at the end of the day he kept the cables in his own system.

Shades of grey :D

(I paraphrase, perhaps inaccurately. Reading the original is worthwhile :) )
 

alpha1

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Here is Pear cables explanation on why their cables are better

Pear Cable Audio Cables - Cable Measurements - Frequency Response Plot



Hmm ... would supressing high frequency make a system sound tinny? I am sure the cables must be good, but couldn't they come out with a better write up. Or keep a dignified silence. Frequency response plot to prove the superiority of a system is amateurish.

:eek:hyeah:
This is the first time that I hear that less hi-frequencies = more harsh and tinny sound!

Looks like the cable manufacturers are indeed making fools out of the customers, and their customers love living in the fairy land.
 

alpha1

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I seem to sit lonely in the "other" camp :(
I personally think one man's myths are another man's mantras......so to each his own in the audio world.
The articles are definitely fun to read, although some of them are now themselves superceded by others who think differently, And technology does change (and usually improve) so nice to see articles refuting each other. However, it is tough to keep a thread like this balanced.
On a personal note, I am always stunned by the strong views of some people, not everyone of course, who have not experienced enough, lets say, $10k cables in appropriately revealing rigs, and yet able to feel confident to dismissing them because of the price rather than what they bring to the table, having heard one or two examples between which, on that day and in that system, they could not discern a difference between.
Also, as mentioned in several threads earlier, at the most esoteric levels of this hobby, audio pricing is often not a result of just the components within the box, but also paying for their r&d, marketing, function of units they expect to sell etc. and sometimes also of course, as many have pointed out in this thread, just what they can charge and someone will pay. Value is sometimes so difficult to judge!
$10k may be a lot to me, but I know a fair few persons who have tried, owned, experienced and believe that for the level of audio reproduction that they are striving to enjoy, one cannot even begin to experience this at anything near that level of expenditure......
I will not be surprised if this liberal post will draw much criticism.

No one on this side of camp has any issues with cables and pricing - IFF the claims are reinforced by tests. If the cable does indeed have an audibly perceivable effect, then one should be able to demarcate it using ONLY ears and nothing else.

That is the exact purpose of double blind test. Nothing else influences the decision except what you hear and feel.

Now regarding what you said about not being able to discern a difference on "that particular day". I can make a similar claim that differences heard over extended listening can be just deceptive perceptions created by mind.
(much like the burn-in: which actually makes you mind more receptive to the new tone/sound)
 
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