pupupuchi28
Active Member
At the outset I would like to thank all the members of HFV for sharing so much information on audio video systems through this forum, which made my purchasing decision fairly smooth.
Search the numbers to jump to the respective sections.
1 - Decision making process
2 Review of Yamaha NS 8390
3 Review of Yamaha RX V371
If you are in the market to purchase an entry level AVR then I can surely say, you cannot avoid Yamaha RX V371. This was my first step into the world of quality audio systems / HT, so I did not want to take blind steps. After a through research of more than a month (both over the internet and auditions), I finally got myself a Yamaha RX V371 paired with Yamaha NS 8390 floor stands.
1 Decision Making process: All purchases and reviews are biased. I say so because the purchases and reviews are very subjective, in terms of budget the person wants to spend and the taste of the person and to some extent the risk taking ability (I will explain it later in the review, more in terms of after sales service etc). So I think its important that I also jot down these parameters, so that you can relate to my purchase.
- Budget for the first set of investment is Re 30-35K. Actually I did not have anything fixed in mind, but as of today I have spent close to this amount, on the set-up.
- Im fond of floor stands. Somehow they give me kick similar to a large peg of Vodka with three ice cubes and a slice of lime.
- Budget for Speakers: Re 12-14K for the fronts, meaning I need to look out for budget floor stands. There are not too many options in this range.
- AVR / Stereo amp: Re 12-20K. Such a wide band because either I may go for Stereo amp (in which case I will not spend too much on the amp) or a decent AVR. Meaning either some used stereo amp or low priced stereo amps or entry level AVRs or outdated models lying in the showrooms.
- I wanted to build the Stereo / HT systems in steps, as and when my pocket permits and basis my listening requirement. This implies, I need to purchase first set of speakers which are capable of throwing sound across all the frequescies, reasonably well and be happy with them till I get the entire set.
- I listen to a wide range of genre of music (rock, country, trance, prefer listening acoustic versions, Indian classical instrumental, classic hindi pop, lots of Pakistani non filmy music and the underground music scene over there, sufi, folk, Bengali (Indian & Bangladeshi) folk & pop, Bollywood classics and some of the new bollywood songs which have good arrangement of instruments. So clearly one particular type of speaker would not help me. Overall I prefer to keep the low frequencies couple of decibels higher than the other frequencies.
- Currently I do not own a house and neither am I going to own it in near future, so in short the living rooms are going to be my Theatre. For a rented place this would typically range from 200sqft to 300sqft.
- I do not prefer to listen at a level, where the owner gives me a notice to vacate the flat because the neighbours are fed up with my loud music. But yes at time, I do pump it up. Implies anything from 30w rms @ more than 86db to 60 w rms @ more than 86 db sensitivity would be sufficient, in a HT setup. In Stereo I will need 45w rms to 75 w rms @ 86 db. Somewhere I read that I should look at speakers rated more than 89 db as anything lesser than that would be hard to drive by the amp.
2 Review of Yamaha NS8390 - Ok enough of parameters, let me straight away go to the purchase and review. I was inclined to purchase a set of Sony floor stands from ebay international purchase section. But then one day I went Hypercity (Meenakshi Mall, Bangalore) and saw these lovely speakers playing loud clear sound test tracks. I checked the impedance and wattage, and it perfectly suited my need. 70 w nominal @ 8 ohms, 89 db with a maximum of 220 w. By virtue of being am impulsive buyer I asked the technician over there, to take out a fresh piece and bill it. Not more than 15 mins to decide. Note I did not test it enough during purchase. The fact that I was able to hear clean sound even in that chaos of the supermarket was sufficient for me to purchase it.
For the first one week I run the speakers connected to one of my old 2.1 set (instead of the small speakers connected these huge floor stands) and it fairly served the purpose. Overall the sound was quite full and warm. Though the high frequencies are not really clean and distinct. The mids from the 3 inch mid drivers were well balanced with the other sounds and fairly crisp. But the most impressive part was the lows, real thump! It was enough to fill my 21 x 11 hall. For the price (again everything is relative
), I was really impressed. Not sure why there are not too many people in this forum with Yamaha speakers.
But I thought it would be wise to connect it to a good amp before I fry either of two. So now there was a search for amp. Either Stereo or an AVR. After some internet research I realised that if I go for a stereo amp I will have to buy a dedicated CD player to reap the benefits of a stereo set-up. In short another, 15-20K, depending on the company and model. Although I can source the input DVD player that I own, compromising reasonably on the quality. On the other hand if I purchase an AVR I will loose the sound quality in stereo mode; however I will get host of other features, most importantly a surround sound set-up for movies.
So I had fixed up an audition time at Vector Systems, Bangalore, on one Sunday afternoon. And this time I took my wife with me and a sound test track CD and couple of my favourite tracks across genres. Vector has a good collection of Wharfedale speakers and few B&W, Atlantic as well. After going through numerous reviews, Norge 1000 and 2000 (stereo amps) were certainly in my list. So the first test was for Norge 1000. Mr Suresh (I guess I remember his name correctly) set up the Norge 1000 with a B&W first. Although the sound was loud enough but the overall quality was very disappointing. I thought BW speakers were good
. So I asked him to pair it with speakers which are bass centric, so that it matches with my floor stands. Then he paired the Norge 1000 with Wharfedale Vardus 3 way speaker system. God I was blown away! Exceptional clarity, dynamics, all three ranges were perfectly balanced. No roll offs. The bass was real tight. Note: only the floor stands were playing yet so much of thump!. I had played a surround test and trust me even when there was lot of noise coming from the nearby road, the lowest frequencies could be easily heard and felt. The sound was utterly bright and pleasing. Norge truly lived upto the reviews that are available on internet. They did not have a fresh piece of Norge 2000 and the one which was on display was not working.
Next in line was Yamaha RX V371. Certainly my expectation was less as it is an AVR and not a dedicated stereo amp. The difference in quality, dynamics could easily be heard even in Straight mode. But I also thought it will suffice my need to have a HT in future when I get an lcd panel. Certainly I cannot afford to buy two amps for two different reasons.
Next I put the Denon 1311 amp with the same speakers. The sound in stereo mode was better than Yamaha; at least it was much crisper than Yamaha. While Yamaha was good at low and mid frequencies, Denon was better in the mid and high frequencies. Going by my inclination for warm sound, I thought it would be wise to stick to Yamaha. So now the competition was between Yamaha and Norge. Certainly given that I want multipurpose equipment with some compromise on the SQ, I boiled down at Yamaha RX V371l. Also to note that for any servicing issue with Norge, I need to contact Mumbai.
I had also auditioned other AVRs and stereo amps but they were way beyond my budget, so lets cut the crap.
3 Review on Yamaha RX V371.After I paired the AVR with my FS (no changes in wires) I felt it was a good decision to go for this amp. The AVR paired quite well with the FS. Sound was not very crisp but it was pretty clear and certainly it had enough thump (tight and no roll offs) to blow my 20 x 11 hall. I was quite relieved thinking that I can postpone my sub for another year ? Let me take you through the features in the equipment one by one.
The equipment comes with an YPAO, which sets different parameters for the speakers on its own when connected. Basically instead of your ears it uses a mic to trace the adjustments required. But by virtue of having a nag for doing things manually, I kept it in the box and played around on my own.
Stereo mode: You can connect the stereo speakers using optical, co axial or RCA connectors.
You have a Straight mode which will surpass all the sound processing circuit and throws the amplified sound to the speakers. This is the cleanest stereo sound you can get from this AVR. To set this up is pretty easy with a one touch button both on the AVR as well as on the remote.
Other options are stereo enhancer; this enhances the quality of music (mp3 for example which has less bit sample rate) by extrapolating the sample rate through a sound processing chip. Not bad!
A 5.1 down mixed stereo. Just incase you have a song in 5.1 channel format but want to play it only through the front stereo speakers; it will combine the channels into 2.1. Didnt try it.
5 channel stereo. Sends Stereo base sound to all surround channels. The effect is still stereo but into multiple channels. Personally I dont like it. It would sound like a Big bazaar having speakers all around with the same sound.
Interestingly there are two set of equalization that you can do with the sound, one is through the digital sound processing chip and the other is by fixing the frequency levels (Note:not restricting frequencies) of individual speakers (there is a 7 band equalizer to do so for each speaker). This is quite helpful if you have speakers with different output specifications. For ex, a floor stand can be marked at flat (respond to all frequencies at equal volume or may be boom the low frequencies a bit), whereas small bookshelfs or surrounds can be limited with zero levels for frequencies below 80 Hz. Cool feature naa! One interesting set-up would be to increase levels for frequencies 250hz to 4 khz (mostly voice and most music instruments) to centre channel and keep all other levels at -10dbl. Below 250hz and above 4 khz to floor stands for the boom and tank effect, all other frequencies at -10dbl. And surrounds will handle just flat for all frequencies from 80 Hz and above, -10dbl for frequencies below 80 hz. Try it out!
After I did all these adjustment, I think now the sound was comparable to Norge or other AVRs. Not comparable to the high end stereo amps though. Its bad that the Vendors do not highlight these features which are so important.
Surround sound: Similar to stereo set-up this also has Straight mode, enhancers, equalization through Cinema DSP (host of options) and the speaker equalization as well. DSP options under the movie category are applicable only when you have 5.1 set-up is connected. Although you can change it to stereo set-up. An interesting feature is, it changes the radio input to 5.1 channel sounds. Only God knows how it does! Although I didnt try, as currently I do not have surround speakers, but probably it does not send stereo base sound to 5 channels. Other feature like setting the distance of the speakers from the listening point, adjusting the volume of individual speakers etc is just like any other AVR.
Bass Management: You can use speaker equilization, cross over setting, phase, bass boost to fix the low frequencies as per you taste. There is an option to direct the low frequency signals to the front right / left channels if you do not have a dedicated sub. That works fine provided your speakers are strong enough to handle those frequencies. The extra bass works only when you have a dedicated sub. So yet to test how it works.
Tone Control: Additionally you have tone control. Since it has only bass and treble as the control, therefore in essence all it does is to boost low frequencies till 300 hz and high frequencies from 4Khz, without focussing on individual frequency bands. But overall, it works fine. I dont expect it to work like a 10 band graphic equilizer ? I like to keep the tones flat.
So in short, you have three options to manipulate and adjust sound based on your need. If you have reasonably good responsive speakers and set of good ears, then you can replicate sound coming from any other stereo amp / AVR on this little black box. Well it weighs a lot though.
The DSP program also creates different sound stages and gives a feel of imaginary acoustic arrangement.
There are inbuilt test tune to test the settings.
Tuner: Ah dont expect too much from this one. Its just basic stuff. Also if you do not have an extended antenna chances are you will not receive the FM signal. Setting the stations is fairly easy and with the help of Scene mode you can straight away go to the tuner with preset sound options.
Connectivity: Except USB port, you have every damn connection on this equipment. Source in the signal from set-top and send it back to TV speakers or your dedicated speakers according to your choice. Component, coaxial, RCA, HDMi. I guess there are not too many gadgets in my house compared to the number of connections available. As I said, you will never fall short of a connection. However the sound sourced from set top box is pretty low when compared with the connection with a DVD player. You need to jack up till -5 dbl to be able to feel the pump (not to mention the set-top volume kept high). You can name the connections as well as per you convenience.
Remote Control: Now one thing which blows me away is the fact that apart from the tone control, you can perform all other functions through the remote. Also you can configure this remote to work as your TV or DVD remote with basic functions. Simply amazing! Im yet to do this. Do we really need Logitech one?
Advanced functions: Change the impedence setting of the equipment to match it up with your speakers.
HDMI: Im yet to explore the audio using HDMI. But it has HD audio output as well.
Video: Strangely the entire equipment does not have a single feature on video. :sad: It does not mention any video enhancement/alteration feature in manual book. I fail to understand what is the use to route the video signals through this equipment if It does not add any value. The new age DVD / BDP have host of options for connectivity. Rather there are chances that the video signal will become poor if it passes through multiple connections. Am I missing anything? I understand that high end versions of AVRs have an upscalling feature, but hey even the decent of BDPs have this feature. Do we really need an AVR in that case? Think about it. In short the only reason one should buy an AVR would be for having 5.1 channel amplification. The sound processing and enhancement feature are there in decent stereo amps as well (say Yamaha/Marantz).
Overall Im very happy with my decision. I'm loving it.
Next I need to get some good cables, surround speakers and sub. Guys please suggest.
Search the numbers to jump to the respective sections.
1 - Decision making process
2 Review of Yamaha NS 8390
3 Review of Yamaha RX V371
If you are in the market to purchase an entry level AVR then I can surely say, you cannot avoid Yamaha RX V371. This was my first step into the world of quality audio systems / HT, so I did not want to take blind steps. After a through research of more than a month (both over the internet and auditions), I finally got myself a Yamaha RX V371 paired with Yamaha NS 8390 floor stands.
1 Decision Making process: All purchases and reviews are biased. I say so because the purchases and reviews are very subjective, in terms of budget the person wants to spend and the taste of the person and to some extent the risk taking ability (I will explain it later in the review, more in terms of after sales service etc). So I think its important that I also jot down these parameters, so that you can relate to my purchase.
- Budget for the first set of investment is Re 30-35K. Actually I did not have anything fixed in mind, but as of today I have spent close to this amount, on the set-up.
- Im fond of floor stands. Somehow they give me kick similar to a large peg of Vodka with three ice cubes and a slice of lime.
- Budget for Speakers: Re 12-14K for the fronts, meaning I need to look out for budget floor stands. There are not too many options in this range.
- AVR / Stereo amp: Re 12-20K. Such a wide band because either I may go for Stereo amp (in which case I will not spend too much on the amp) or a decent AVR. Meaning either some used stereo amp or low priced stereo amps or entry level AVRs or outdated models lying in the showrooms.
- I wanted to build the Stereo / HT systems in steps, as and when my pocket permits and basis my listening requirement. This implies, I need to purchase first set of speakers which are capable of throwing sound across all the frequescies, reasonably well and be happy with them till I get the entire set.
- I listen to a wide range of genre of music (rock, country, trance, prefer listening acoustic versions, Indian classical instrumental, classic hindi pop, lots of Pakistani non filmy music and the underground music scene over there, sufi, folk, Bengali (Indian & Bangladeshi) folk & pop, Bollywood classics and some of the new bollywood songs which have good arrangement of instruments. So clearly one particular type of speaker would not help me. Overall I prefer to keep the low frequencies couple of decibels higher than the other frequencies.
- Currently I do not own a house and neither am I going to own it in near future, so in short the living rooms are going to be my Theatre. For a rented place this would typically range from 200sqft to 300sqft.
- I do not prefer to listen at a level, where the owner gives me a notice to vacate the flat because the neighbours are fed up with my loud music. But yes at time, I do pump it up. Implies anything from 30w rms @ more than 86db to 60 w rms @ more than 86 db sensitivity would be sufficient, in a HT setup. In Stereo I will need 45w rms to 75 w rms @ 86 db. Somewhere I read that I should look at speakers rated more than 89 db as anything lesser than that would be hard to drive by the amp.
2 Review of Yamaha NS8390 - Ok enough of parameters, let me straight away go to the purchase and review. I was inclined to purchase a set of Sony floor stands from ebay international purchase section. But then one day I went Hypercity (Meenakshi Mall, Bangalore) and saw these lovely speakers playing loud clear sound test tracks. I checked the impedance and wattage, and it perfectly suited my need. 70 w nominal @ 8 ohms, 89 db with a maximum of 220 w. By virtue of being am impulsive buyer I asked the technician over there, to take out a fresh piece and bill it. Not more than 15 mins to decide. Note I did not test it enough during purchase. The fact that I was able to hear clean sound even in that chaos of the supermarket was sufficient for me to purchase it.
For the first one week I run the speakers connected to one of my old 2.1 set (instead of the small speakers connected these huge floor stands) and it fairly served the purpose. Overall the sound was quite full and warm. Though the high frequencies are not really clean and distinct. The mids from the 3 inch mid drivers were well balanced with the other sounds and fairly crisp. But the most impressive part was the lows, real thump! It was enough to fill my 21 x 11 hall. For the price (again everything is relative
), I was really impressed. Not sure why there are not too many people in this forum with Yamaha speakers.But I thought it would be wise to connect it to a good amp before I fry either of two. So now there was a search for amp. Either Stereo or an AVR. After some internet research I realised that if I go for a stereo amp I will have to buy a dedicated CD player to reap the benefits of a stereo set-up. In short another, 15-20K, depending on the company and model. Although I can source the input DVD player that I own, compromising reasonably on the quality. On the other hand if I purchase an AVR I will loose the sound quality in stereo mode; however I will get host of other features, most importantly a surround sound set-up for movies.
So I had fixed up an audition time at Vector Systems, Bangalore, on one Sunday afternoon. And this time I took my wife with me and a sound test track CD and couple of my favourite tracks across genres. Vector has a good collection of Wharfedale speakers and few B&W, Atlantic as well. After going through numerous reviews, Norge 1000 and 2000 (stereo amps) were certainly in my list. So the first test was for Norge 1000. Mr Suresh (I guess I remember his name correctly) set up the Norge 1000 with a B&W first. Although the sound was loud enough but the overall quality was very disappointing. I thought BW speakers were good
. So I asked him to pair it with speakers which are bass centric, so that it matches with my floor stands. Then he paired the Norge 1000 with Wharfedale Vardus 3 way speaker system. God I was blown away! Exceptional clarity, dynamics, all three ranges were perfectly balanced. No roll offs. The bass was real tight. Note: only the floor stands were playing yet so much of thump!. I had played a surround test and trust me even when there was lot of noise coming from the nearby road, the lowest frequencies could be easily heard and felt. The sound was utterly bright and pleasing. Norge truly lived upto the reviews that are available on internet. They did not have a fresh piece of Norge 2000 and the one which was on display was not working.Next in line was Yamaha RX V371. Certainly my expectation was less as it is an AVR and not a dedicated stereo amp. The difference in quality, dynamics could easily be heard even in Straight mode. But I also thought it will suffice my need to have a HT in future when I get an lcd panel. Certainly I cannot afford to buy two amps for two different reasons.
Next I put the Denon 1311 amp with the same speakers. The sound in stereo mode was better than Yamaha; at least it was much crisper than Yamaha. While Yamaha was good at low and mid frequencies, Denon was better in the mid and high frequencies. Going by my inclination for warm sound, I thought it would be wise to stick to Yamaha. So now the competition was between Yamaha and Norge. Certainly given that I want multipurpose equipment with some compromise on the SQ, I boiled down at Yamaha RX V371l. Also to note that for any servicing issue with Norge, I need to contact Mumbai.
I had also auditioned other AVRs and stereo amps but they were way beyond my budget, so lets cut the crap.
3 Review on Yamaha RX V371.After I paired the AVR with my FS (no changes in wires) I felt it was a good decision to go for this amp. The AVR paired quite well with the FS. Sound was not very crisp but it was pretty clear and certainly it had enough thump (tight and no roll offs) to blow my 20 x 11 hall. I was quite relieved thinking that I can postpone my sub for another year ? Let me take you through the features in the equipment one by one.
The equipment comes with an YPAO, which sets different parameters for the speakers on its own when connected. Basically instead of your ears it uses a mic to trace the adjustments required. But by virtue of having a nag for doing things manually, I kept it in the box and played around on my own.
Stereo mode: You can connect the stereo speakers using optical, co axial or RCA connectors.
You have a Straight mode which will surpass all the sound processing circuit and throws the amplified sound to the speakers. This is the cleanest stereo sound you can get from this AVR. To set this up is pretty easy with a one touch button both on the AVR as well as on the remote.
Other options are stereo enhancer; this enhances the quality of music (mp3 for example which has less bit sample rate) by extrapolating the sample rate through a sound processing chip. Not bad!
A 5.1 down mixed stereo. Just incase you have a song in 5.1 channel format but want to play it only through the front stereo speakers; it will combine the channels into 2.1. Didnt try it.
5 channel stereo. Sends Stereo base sound to all surround channels. The effect is still stereo but into multiple channels. Personally I dont like it. It would sound like a Big bazaar having speakers all around with the same sound.
Interestingly there are two set of equalization that you can do with the sound, one is through the digital sound processing chip and the other is by fixing the frequency levels (Note:not restricting frequencies) of individual speakers (there is a 7 band equalizer to do so for each speaker). This is quite helpful if you have speakers with different output specifications. For ex, a floor stand can be marked at flat (respond to all frequencies at equal volume or may be boom the low frequencies a bit), whereas small bookshelfs or surrounds can be limited with zero levels for frequencies below 80 Hz. Cool feature naa! One interesting set-up would be to increase levels for frequencies 250hz to 4 khz (mostly voice and most music instruments) to centre channel and keep all other levels at -10dbl. Below 250hz and above 4 khz to floor stands for the boom and tank effect, all other frequencies at -10dbl. And surrounds will handle just flat for all frequencies from 80 Hz and above, -10dbl for frequencies below 80 hz. Try it out!
After I did all these adjustment, I think now the sound was comparable to Norge or other AVRs. Not comparable to the high end stereo amps though. Its bad that the Vendors do not highlight these features which are so important.
Surround sound: Similar to stereo set-up this also has Straight mode, enhancers, equalization through Cinema DSP (host of options) and the speaker equalization as well. DSP options under the movie category are applicable only when you have 5.1 set-up is connected. Although you can change it to stereo set-up. An interesting feature is, it changes the radio input to 5.1 channel sounds. Only God knows how it does! Although I didnt try, as currently I do not have surround speakers, but probably it does not send stereo base sound to 5 channels. Other feature like setting the distance of the speakers from the listening point, adjusting the volume of individual speakers etc is just like any other AVR.
Bass Management: You can use speaker equilization, cross over setting, phase, bass boost to fix the low frequencies as per you taste. There is an option to direct the low frequency signals to the front right / left channels if you do not have a dedicated sub. That works fine provided your speakers are strong enough to handle those frequencies. The extra bass works only when you have a dedicated sub. So yet to test how it works.
Tone Control: Additionally you have tone control. Since it has only bass and treble as the control, therefore in essence all it does is to boost low frequencies till 300 hz and high frequencies from 4Khz, without focussing on individual frequency bands. But overall, it works fine. I dont expect it to work like a 10 band graphic equilizer ? I like to keep the tones flat.
So in short, you have three options to manipulate and adjust sound based on your need. If you have reasonably good responsive speakers and set of good ears
, then you can replicate sound coming from any other stereo amp / AVR on this little black box. Well it weighs a lot though. The DSP program also creates different sound stages and gives a feel of imaginary acoustic arrangement.
There are inbuilt test tune to test the settings.
Tuner: Ah dont expect too much from this one. Its just basic stuff. Also if you do not have an extended antenna chances are you will not receive the FM signal. Setting the stations is fairly easy and with the help of Scene mode you can straight away go to the tuner with preset sound options.
Connectivity: Except USB port, you have every damn connection on this equipment. Source in the signal from set-top and send it back to TV speakers or your dedicated speakers according to your choice. Component, coaxial, RCA, HDMi. I guess there are not too many gadgets in my house compared to the number of connections available. As I said, you will never fall short of a connection. However the sound sourced from set top box is pretty low when compared with the connection with a DVD player. You need to jack up till -5 dbl to be able to feel the pump (not to mention the set-top volume kept high). You can name the connections as well as per you convenience.
Remote Control: Now one thing which blows me away is the fact that apart from the tone control, you can perform all other functions through the remote. Also you can configure this remote to work as your TV or DVD remote with basic functions. Simply amazing! Im yet to do this. Do we really need Logitech one?
Advanced functions: Change the impedence setting of the equipment to match it up with your speakers.
HDMI: Im yet to explore the audio using HDMI. But it has HD audio output as well.
Video: Strangely the entire equipment does not have a single feature on video. :sad: It does not mention any video enhancement/alteration feature in manual book. I fail to understand what is the use to route the video signals through this equipment if It does not add any value. The new age DVD / BDP have host of options for connectivity. Rather there are chances that the video signal will become poor if it passes through multiple connections. Am I missing anything? I understand that high end versions of AVRs have an upscalling feature, but hey even the decent of BDPs have this feature. Do we really need an AVR in that case? Think about it. In short the only reason one should buy an AVR would be for having 5.1 channel amplification. The sound processing and enhancement feature are there in decent stereo amps as well (say Yamaha/Marantz).
Overall Im very happy with my decision. I'm loving it.
Next I need to get some good cables, surround speakers and sub. Guys please suggest.
Last edited:
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hyeah:
