A sad end to the quest for Vandersteen speakers

[murali]

Some of you might have read my "for sale" posting regarding the 2Ce Signature speakers consequent to my decision to upgrade to Quatro. Direct from Vandersteen himself, I got a very reasonable price and have been hunting for freight agencies cum clearance services to ship them from USA to Cochin. All of them backed out at the end and one was trying their best as I asked for a guarantee that once I paid for the speakers to Vandersteen directly and arranged for delivery at the shipper's address in USA, they had to get them to my home in India including Customs clearance etc. These things are heavy and large, plus will be declared at the real price I pay as reputed companies like Vandersteen don't under-invoice and I am also not averse to pay reasonable duties (estimated initially at around 30%) and do not wish to go illegal.

Now the last agency has also said sorry as they have talked to clearing agencies and Customs officials, both working and retired, to ensure that there would be no problems. Unfortunately, I am being told that the Customs will make a big issue when the good arrive. This is primarily because of their high value (> $5000) and also because I live in Middle East, buy from USA and ship direct to India, a case of money laundering, they will suspect!!! There is no way they will allow this and if at all they show some leniency, I could be charged 350% luxury tax for buying such high value items in a commercial international transaction!!! I even got a nice piece of advice that better speakers at lower values are available in India, so why don't you buy locally???

Bloody shame, I would say. Is this the outcome if one wants to buy something which one can afford from one's own hard-earned money outside the country and willing to do it legally? Is this a crime?

I have now only two options for future: either buy them and get them here and send to India "illegally" (there is a multitude of companies in the Middle East who do so regularly paying hardly any duties), or get them here and take along under TR when I wind up here in an year or two.

I have now no choice but to recall my "for sale".

But one thing I have decided, right or wrong: if at all I buy a new set of speakers in the future, it will still be the Vandy Quatros. This experience makes my resolution even stronger.

Or, when I come home next month, may be I should file an application with DGTD or someone for import!

Sorry, folks. Believe me, I am not a money-launderer.

no cheers this time.
murali

 

[arj]

Hey sorry to hear that.. I guess best offer is to get them to Middle East now and ship it to india later.

 

[rallynut]

murali,srry to hear this.best bet would be to get them to ur plc in the ME as arj suggested,use them and get them down during ur TR.should save u a lotta trouble too reg our ever present restrictions .

strange,the innumerable hurdles one has to encounter,even if u hv the money .all the best.

 

[thekinge]

Murali,

Not sure which middle eastern country you are in, but I think it would be better for you to import it directly to your current country of residence, pay less duties legally and then ship it to India through one of those shipping companies which will deliver them to your home in Cochin. While I appreciate your inclination to pay full duty in India, personally I think there is nothing wrong in using the middle eastern shipping companies.

Just my two paise.

-thekinge

 

[odyssey]

Hi Murali
pm me offline and I will put you in touch with Shippers and forwarders who will take care of this

cheers

 

[murali]

Thanks for all your kind responses.

Yes, shipping to my place in the Middle East seems to be the only viable option. For goods manufactured in USA, I don't have to pay a single cent here as duties as they have free trade agreements. So far I have been inclined to look at direct shipment from USA to India for avoiding double shipment. The other problem is I may be stuck here for another year or two and buying now and keeping it here till I return under TR is a waste of money; I can very well buy them before I come. I don't have much opportunity to use them here.

I am considering all options before buying them or keep the quest pending.

It may be interesting also to find out which law I am breaking according to Customs officials. This is worthwhile as recently I came across several politicians from our country in this part of the world. One of them, the son of a prominent leader and himself aspiring to become another CM, found his hotel here (he owns in partnership with some locals) forcibly closed by authorities as they were running a brothel and bringing ladies from India on work pretexts, I hear he lost quite some money. Then there were some left party leaders here raising funds. I wonder relative to these guys, we folks employed and toiling under the sun fall victims to the laws they make in collusion with the bureaucracy. Who is laundering what???

murali

 

[ajinkya]

Murali,
If the only problem is that you're staying in Middle East, why not ask someone in India (relative or close friend) to buy it from Vandersteen and ship it to Cochin? You can pay the friend by bank transaction, and the customs will see an order placed from India, delivered to India. Or am I missing something obvious?

 

[sidvee]

Sorry to hear that:sad: - It mirrors my sad experiences in trying to get heavy/expensive audio eqpt. into India. I guess your best bet would be to work with a C&f agent or work with odyssey as I guess he deals with this on a daily basis and probably is an authority on this by now. Best of luck and do keep us posted - I want to import a $10+ k speaker down the road and am interested in knowing the best way of doing it.
Cheers
Sid

 

[murali]

Hopefully my final observations before I withdraw from this forum.

A few more shippers I managed to contact in USA confirm the same story. The speakers being expensive will certainly be classified as "luxury goods" and are most likely to attract 65% duty plus 12% VAT, fines etc. In other words, I will end up paying the same money as I pay for the speakers to get them at my home! I recall my earlier experience of getting the Vandy 2Ce directly from India when I ended up in the same situation (a reason I had mentioned in my "for sale" post). All this is because I am a personal user, not a legitimate businessman or dealer holding import licence. Then the high value of goods, my being a novice in Customs matters with hardly any contact with anyone in the department who matters, and my desire to bring them in by legitimate means. I am not saying that others cannot succeed in this but my situation is like this.

Odyssey had given me some helpful hints but unfortunately they don't work in my case for the reasons mentioned above.

Thanks to all who sympathised and offered tips.

It has been a wonderful experience so far in this.

What next? Good question. I am now tempted to use that money to sell off my 5-series and buy a X-5. At least it gives me something to enjoy here without my music. Or, may be try a hawala deal to give back something to the bureaucracy and politicians. Or, buy a gold biscuit and smuggle it in. So many choices indeed. Now you appreciate those old Bachchan movies!

cheers and sincere thanks to those who read me.
murali

 

[suri]

Murali,
If the only problem is that you're staying in Middle East, why not ask someone in India (relative or close friend) to buy it from Vandersteen and ship it to Cochin? You can pay the friend by bank transaction, and the customs will see an order placed from India, delivered to India. Or am I missing something obvious?

you are missing something obveeous!

 

[venkatcr]

Murali, it might be a good idea to talk to a senior customs official. If he understand your situation, you may be able to get an import permit. You will have no issues in getting the speakers to India then.

Cheers

 

[captrajesh]

Hopefully my final observations before I withdraw from this forum.

I feel sad for you due to the situation you are in. But , why withdraw from the forum?

 

[murali]

Murali, it might be a good idea to talk to a senior customs official. If he understand your situation, you may be able to get an import permit. You will have no issues in getting the speakers to India then.

Cheers

That is the most obveeeeous (suri...)...
The arithmetic and logic are straightfoward. I am willing to invest around $6000 for the speakers plus freight. All I need is the expected duty, taxes, fines etc when they land in India. If it is estimated at x%+/- 5% or so, I can decide whether it is worth or not. But when the 'x' varies from zero to 150% according to different agencies, it is impossible for me to take the risk. The moment I pay for the speakers and freight, I will be entirely at the mercy of people involved at the landing site.

The obveeeeous point is I believe we are a democracy with institutions enforcing law with transparency to the common citizen. When this transparency is utterly lacking, each Customs official is entitled to interpret rules as he or she likes, no written and enforceable rules and tariff rates are available, what is the point? Okay, supposing I discuss with officials beforehand, is someone going to give an assurance or give in writing, this is going to be your damages??? It all depends on factors now beyond my control.

I am too ordinary a guy to fight against such a system. Also, it is hard-earned money which I am unwilling to write off if my goods are ultimately charged unaffordable duties and fines and go for auction from the Customs warehouse.

The tragedy is the conflict between Foreign Trade office and Customs rules in which DGFT says ordinary persons for personal consumption need not take any import license. So how do I get a legitimate import license? May be I should now start going after "Indian distributors and dealers of high-end audio equipment" like the guys who sell Avalon speakers (spices export-import business? Preeti Trading?) or Proac speakers (coir exporters, I believe) or grey market turned legitimate business houses (I don't have to name them) or mixtures. Or, start an export-import business.

One of the most developing countries, a long way to go, my friends. At least in other similar countries I have seen, there is a set of written rules and regulations to help citizens. So you know what you are getting into.

cheers and vande mataram.
murali

 

[venkatcr]

Okay, supposing I discuss with officials beforehand, is someone going to give an assurance or give in writing, this is going to be your damages??? It all depends on factors now beyond my control.

Things are not as bad you you project. You can always apply for an import licence. The licence is a assurance in writing that will allow you to bring the item into the country. Usually you take a proforma invoice to the authorities and explain the situation to them. They will find out under which clause you can import the item, and if so based upon the proforma invoice, give you a licence.

Believe me 6000$ is nothing for India today. Most customs officials, I have seen, if you do not break the law, are not even interested in you. Only when you circumvent the law, do they see red. Most distributors try to circumvent the law to maximise their profits. You do not have to do that. I don't think you will be charged more than 30% for any self use electronic item that is not on the watch list.

Cheers

 

[odyssey]

I agree with Venkat - your situation is straight forward as far as I can tell, except that you will (to be on the safe side) need to wire the money from an Indian bank account to Vandersteen. You will need to do this in case the customs official wants to verify the proof that they cost only $5k or 6K whatever you mention in your invoice. You do not need an import license for personal use. You dont need to go the customs for clearance (appear in person) the agent will do that for you.

cheers
Sridhar

 

[malvai]

Murali,
do you have a citibank card? Or do any of your friends in India?

If yes, just register on Borderlink. Buy using the Citi card and get them shipped to the Borderlinx suite in the US. The Borderlinx guys will do the rest for you...

The borderlink people will charge you duties beforehand itself... and will get it out of customs too.

 

[murali]

I agree with Venkat - your situation is straight forward as far as I can tell, except that you will (to be on the safe side) need to wire the money from an Indian bank account to Vandersteen. You will need to do this in case the customs official wants to verify the proof that they cost only $5k or 6K whatever you mention in your invoice. You do not need an import license for personal use. You dont need to go the customs for clearance (appear in person) the agent will do that for you.

cheers
Sridhar

Just to let the information get completed, here is what I got as a reply from UPS in USA (Similar ones also came from DHL and Fedex.)

Thank you for your request. Unfortunately both our air and ocean "freight" services are reserved for commercial shipments i.e. products being sold moving strictly from business to business as we cannot move any personal effects, household goods or private shipments at this time.

A shipment for large speakers cannot be done in courier mode, even by USPS.

Other "specialist" freight forwarders for USA to India are willing to offer their services but with no assurance or guarantee on import duties. It can cost anywhere from 30 to 150% according to them.

Further contacts with Foreign Trade offices in India reveal that they will not issue any import license for personal purchases and none is needed. However, they point out that it is entirely left to the discretion of the Customs officials to deal with such events.

So I have to continue searching for the Holy Grail called the Customs laws which will tell me precisely the implications.

cheers.
murali

 

[venkatcr]

Murali, if you are able to get a proforma invoice, send a scanned copy to a trusted person India. That person should go to the nearest customs office, and submit an application on your behalf for import. The officer will tell you what is to be done. They may even be ready to give you a letter acknowledging the application, and informing the courier company that you can route the shipment through their office for proper processing.

If you are looking for a prescribed method on the Net or through the Consular offices, or even in the IMPEX Manual, you will have no luck. The best is to deal with the people who will guide you as to what and how it is to be done. You can insist upon the need for documentation, and I am sure you will get what you want. A little bit of leg work is involved. Tell the officers about the product, it's size, fragility, it's value and need for assurance before you pay the supplier.

Cheers

 

[pdhanwada]

I agree with Murali with #14 post.
Frontend doesnt work well with customs, Backend(bribing) is the best way.
Easier said than done. Lot of risks.

It all depends on the customs official. But most customs officials can be bribed. If you catch hold of the shipping company they can get it cleared. It is possible if you get your speakers thru a container which will be cleared against TR.

It is not so easy to this linked up. Lot of risks. I am hundred percent sure that you will not get any thing in writing how much will be customs duty will be charged.

Container + TR will be best bet. When clearing the container you do not need to show the invoice. You can claim that they are $1000 worth.

Are you getting used speakers or New.

Thanks
Pandu

 

[sachin_k5]

I agree with Murali with #14 post.
Frontend doesnt work well with customs, Backend(bribing) is the best way.
Easier said than done. Lot of risks.

It all depends on the customs official. But most customs officials can be bribed. If you catch hold of the shipping company they can get it cleared. It is possible if you get your speakers thru a container which will be cleared against TR.

It is not so easy to this linked up. Lot of risks. I am hundred percent sure that you will not get any thing in writing how much will be customs duty will be charged.

Container + TR will be best bet. When clearing the container you do not need to show the invoice. You can claim that they are $1000 worth.

Are you getting used speakers or New.

Thanks
Pandu

I think forum rules are getting breached here.
"Any posts that encourage illegal intent will be removed and the account disabled."