About Power Conditioners/Regenerators
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Yes, you cannot use PFC in that way. To use PFC the equipment must "contain" that function block in itself.
If you want a separate install in an amplifier then it needs a modding tweak.
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I have a pc smps lying about to use with my audio pc without APFC. Its the CM 350 PSU. Is this thingie going to result in more harmonics and EMI/RF than a psu with APFC? It cost me more money that usual so I dont want ot throw it.
Thanks
--G
Gobble,
Well as i already said, APFC will definitely result in lower harmonic generation.
@Kanwar: can you kindly explain if the use of isolation transformers would improve the quality of power supply to our audio chain? I read a post on another forum about a person claiming that his isolation transformer improved things for his audio chain. I can't fathom how this should happen.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
Isolation transformers mainly eliminate ground loops and give you better noise rejection. An improvement in audio chain with isolation transformers is valid only if you have problems with normal mains.
PurePower
New Member
Hi Kanwar,
It's nice to see people discussing power in straightforward quality terms and not the voodoo and magic that some audio power conditioning companies tend to use in their marketing and promotion.
I just wanted to add to your discussion that our PurePower+ line of regenerators released late last year all have quite robust PFC circuitry and a near unity input power factor of .99 when loaded.
I have enjoyed reading this thread.
Thanks,
Damian Janzen
PurePower Partners LLC
It's nice to see people discussing power in straightforward quality terms and not the voodoo and magic that some audio power conditioning companies tend to use in their marketing and promotion.
I just wanted to add to your discussion that our PurePower+ line of regenerators released late last year all have quite robust PFC circuitry and a near unity input power factor of .99 when loaded.
I have enjoyed reading this thread.
Thanks,
Damian Janzen
PurePower Partners LLC
Dear Damien, IMHO most products designed outside of the Indian subcontinent fail in the Indian Subcontinent.... I have not seen any such product that can take the vagaries of our Power Lines!
If you intend marketing in India, you do need to see how you can address our peculiar issues! (these I am sure, will be listed out by our FMs shortly!)
PurePower
New Member
Hi Malvai,
I agree completely about the challenges any power product faces when exposed to the difficulties presented by India's electrical infrastructure.
We have several years experience with customers in India of our previous 1st and 2nd Generation PurePower units. Occasionally repairs were needed to some units due to what I would term harsh operating conditions and extreme events (which could possibly on the Subcontinent be described as a slightly worse than average week.)
While the incident rate was a bit higher than in North American or European markets which have comparably quite stable Mains power, it was no more so than in the Middle East, Africa, or Australia (which has notoriously high voltages in some areas.)
We've learned quite a bit about variations in local requirements in our past 10 years of building AC regenerators and have applied much of that experience in our 3rd generation PP+ designs.
I agree completely about the challenges any power product faces when exposed to the difficulties presented by India's electrical infrastructure.
We have several years experience with customers in India of our previous 1st and 2nd Generation PurePower units. Occasionally repairs were needed to some units due to what I would term harsh operating conditions and extreme events (which could possibly on the Subcontinent be described as a slightly worse than average week.)
While the incident rate was a bit higher than in North American or European markets which have comparably quite stable Mains power, it was no more so than in the Middle East, Africa, or Australia (which has notoriously high voltages in some areas.)
We've learned quite a bit about variations in local requirements in our past 10 years of building AC regenerators and have applied much of that experience in our 3rd generation PP+ designs.
Kanwar,
I am using the APC Smart UPS RT 2000 VA 230V.
In their "Product Overview" tab and under Protection they mention "Input Power Factor Correction" when you scroll down the above link.
Is there a difference between Active PFC as you mention it and what APC is doing with my unit?
Sincerely appreciate your feedback ...
Regards.
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It is really sad that I have not been able to come across a single Indian product in this space.
Delivering clean AC power for audio systems broadly would involve the following:-
1. Isolation
2. Surge Suppression
3. EMI/RFI noise suppression
4. Providing pure sine wave
5. Voltage regulation
A lot of people think that an average UPS should be good enough for delivering clean power to audio amplifiers but this is not true in most cases because most of the UPS units are not really designed for really pure sinewave output and also contain loads of harmonics. This is OK for TVs, DVD players, and other "digital gear" but not suitable for fine audio gear because the power requirement for an amp varies greatly depending on the frequencies being played and the system should be able to sustain under a highly dynamic load/ high current situations. A regular UPS probably wouldnt handle a high current draw/really fast overload and Line filters restrict current spikes and in turn they can limit the dynamics of high power amps. For a UPS to be useful for audio amplifiers, it should have a true online, double-conversion system and the pure sinewave output and should be able to compensate for the distortions produced.
Surge Suppression in my opinion is probably not that important because power amps have big and tough power supplies and to a certain extent immune to power spikes.
Delivering clean AC power for audio systems broadly would involve the following:-
1. Isolation
2. Surge Suppression
3. EMI/RFI noise suppression
4. Providing pure sine wave
5. Voltage regulation
A lot of people think that an average UPS should be good enough for delivering clean power to audio amplifiers but this is not true in most cases because most of the UPS units are not really designed for really pure sinewave output and also contain loads of harmonics. This is OK for TVs, DVD players, and other "digital gear" but not suitable for fine audio gear because the power requirement for an amp varies greatly depending on the frequencies being played and the system should be able to sustain under a highly dynamic load/ high current situations. A regular UPS probably wouldnt handle a high current draw/really fast overload and Line filters restrict current spikes and in turn they can limit the dynamics of high power amps. For a UPS to be useful for audio amplifiers, it should have a true online, double-conversion system and the pure sinewave output and should be able to compensate for the distortions produced.
Surge Suppression in my opinion is probably not that important because power amps have big and tough power supplies and to a certain extent immune to power spikes.
krishnamurthy
Active Member
Well some amp companies invalidate their warranty on UPS/inverter power in India. Surge suppression during lightning strikes nearby a home can damage a lot of the audio equipment.
A well known home theatre retailer in Blore recently had their PBX and other equipment got knocked out because of a lightning strike. Their telephone lines were not surge protected.
A well known home theatre retailer in Blore recently had their PBX and other equipment got knocked out because of a lightning strike. Their telephone lines were not surge protected.
True Online UPS gives sine wave output and should work perfectly with any HT equipment.
Even if you are using normal UPS/ inverter, how will the Amp service centre know about it unless you tell them?
Even if you are using normal UPS/ inverter, how will the Amp service centre know about it unless you tell them?
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hi randhir
seems you have done your research well and yu know a bit about whats really needed
unfortunately to get ALL the features you have listed in one devie is not viable and actually not advisable from a technical and maintianence point of view
it is better to have devices that protect fail and need replacement to be kept seperate
something like a module that can be replaced
voltage regulation is another field by itself
and can actaully be a seperate device all together
In fact there are many pure voltage regulaters in the market today
the reason why many audiophile products dont do regulation is that
ALL areas do not require it
and hence adding it just raises their costs
Your better off buying a seperate regulator ( its cheaper that way )
FOr audio ( high end )
UPS and conditioning is highly debated - i fortunately dont have a need for it where i live
and clients who have used it including me find we are better off without it
But in my opinion as you have listed
an ISOLATION transformer coupled with a good RF emi filter would be a good product
Couple that with a 10000 Joule surge protector ( replacable module)
and you pretty much have a decent combination of purity and protection - ofcourse acts of GOD like a direct lightning strike cannot be protected against under any circumstance)
a 2kva iso transformer i find is sufficient for all high current draws and inherently also provides a layer of protection itself - however they are not cheap and hence very few products incorporate them - in fact when i tried sourcing some custom made ones from an indian vendor he thought i was nuts when i told him i want 230v in 230v out trafo 2kva )
Now if some areas really do have a voltage fluctuation problem
i would purely advice them to accentuate the above with a seperate easily availble regulater
There are only a handful that offer
isoaltion,regulation,surge protection and rf emi
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rikhav
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What i feel is even after havuing true online, double conversion ups, amps should be always connected direct to wall socket so there is no kind of restrictiom when suddenly extra current is needed
I am not sure if class a amps would be ok with connecting to ups as they are always on peak current
I am not sure if class a amps would be ok with connecting to ups as they are always on peak current
Hi Rikhav, considering you are in Mumbai, which power conditioner would be appropriate for me. I have been reading about it, without it making more sense than basic. Can you point me towards a product that could work with CXR200 and a network player I have.
Would this be a good choice: http://www.amazon.in/Furman-M-8X2-O...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=1Y4AH373MPV8KQJZBV26
Regards
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