advice for stereo set up

[tuff]

Kvandhi Watts and price have no correlation. A lot goes into making an amplifier than just wattage. Rotel also has a higher brand value vs Marantz/Yamaha/Denon?Onkyo. One of the characteristics of amplifier is the sound signature that it has and how well that sound signature works with any given speakers.
You may have seen the word "Synergy" used a lot in audio forums. So if a particular speaker is driven by say marantz, it might have different characteristics in the sound than Rotel. The differences can be minute to obvious depending on the combo in play. Which is why different amplifiers are recommended for different speakers. To get the best out of any system this combination has to work at optimum, hence you may see people changing DAC's, Source, Speaker cables/Inter connects or change tubes if using a tube buffer or tube preamp. For some it becomes a journey of a lifetime, (isn't that what hobbies are all about?).
In the end, forums like this can give you great ideas on how to better your existing system, let's you see what other nuts are up to with their gears, and the pursuit of happiness at can be derived under any given budget.
Personally, I am at a point where i am perfectly happy with my system and what it does for the type of music i listen to. But i have my eyes and ears open to see what tiny changes i can possible make to refine it. It's like cooking your favorite dish with making minor changes to the ingredients and see what tastes better,and keep refining it.
Hope that helps.

 

[Indranil Sen]

tuff- Nice write-up and I agree with you regarding the benefits of system synergy. I am currently in Cal and spent some time with a few high-end audio store owners. The feedback that I got was this market is still in its infancy and tools like free home trial which helps you to experiment with different electronics to build system synergy is non existent. To me this is the biggest obstacle to building a complete system in your room where every component is hand picked based on not its dollar value but its ability to match the rest of the system. How did you build your system? Any feedback on this would be much appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[kvandhi]

One of the HT store guy told me that even audition will not help fully to decide your system. Because no speakers/amps are perfect in all the rooms. He advised me to go Room correction technology ,DSP...blah blah.. . I am even more confused now

Tried and tested combo - Will it help me to purchase , without audition.

Finally budget is only deciding factor for our audio passion.

 

[Rajeshh]

@shashanksiddhant Congrats on your purchase, the LS50 is a brilliant speaker. I used to own the Active version & have lots of experience with the passive. It must look lovely in racing red. Do post pics.

The thing to watch out for, with the LS50 is that it needs lots of power to bring out its best. Think 150+ watts solid state, I found Hegel (H360) paired with Kefs/B&Ws to sound dry, do try to audition before your purchase.
Darko's reviews about the LS50 are pretty spot on, and I guess he has reviewed amp pairings extensively.

 

[Indranil Sen]

kavandhi- What your HT store person said is partly correct. Store audition of any electronics is no guarantee that it will perform the same in your room when integrated with rest of your system. However the remedy that he mentioned i.e DSP is not accurate. DSP or any other room correction tool will help you control the room response which will create a very pleasant listening environment in the room. It is component agnostic. But this alone will not guarantee that any compinent when integrated in the room will blend well with rest of your system. That needs home trial which is what I was talking earlier and is missing in the Indian high end audio market.
Further the store audition part could not be ignored. Without that you don't know how a component sounds in any room let alone your room. So you need both to properly evaluate any audio component.
Hope this helps.

 

[kvandhi]

Yes indranil sen , Forget about Home trial. even audition of entry level products not easier in india. Most of AV stores are stocking up high end ( i mean mid level - high level price wise), They do not stock up entry levels for audition. So we need to trust more from forum members/Reviews.

 

[shashanksiddhant]

Just curious, Why Rotel Ra-10 is double the cost than Marantz 5005 for the same power output (40WPC). Is there any difference in materials used or quality of sound.

never auditioned any marantz amp so cant comment on that.....btw there is also space for bargain in rotel

 

[shashanksiddhant]

@shashanksiddhant Congrats on your purchase, the LS50 is a brilliant speaker. I used to own the Active version & have lots of experience with the passive. It must look lovely in racing red. Do post pics.

The thing to watch out for, with the LS50 is that it needs lots of power to bring out its best. Think 150+ watts solid state, I found Hegel (H360) paired with Kefs/B&Ws to sound dry, do try to audition before your purchase.
Darko's reviews about the LS50 are pretty spot on, and I guess he has reviewed amp pairings extensively.

i dont have pics as of now and m currently out of town on official tour....but will share asap sir

 

[tuff]

Have sent you a PM. Don't want to hijack this thread.

 

[vinyl]

One of the HT store guy told me that even audition will not help fully to decide your system. Because no speakers/amps are perfect in all the rooms. He advised me to go Room correction technology ,DSP...blah blah.. . I am even more confused now

Tried and tested combo - Will it help me to purchase , without audition.

Finally budget is only deciding factor for our audio passion.

No offence to anyone, but the truth is most of the so called audiophiles do not have the capacity to know whether a note as been rendered absolutely correctly or not. Audiophiles, because of their nature, are fooled by the marketing hypes of various companies. So don't waste time trying to be an audiophile, and don't get too deep into auditions, room corrections or other factors like warm and bright sound, etc., etc. Remember, no amp or speaker is perfect, neither is any room perfect, you are to listen to music in home, so let your home remain a home and not become a studio. Get any amp and speaker, either from the lowest priced Indian made Norge or costlier MNC brands, as per your budget, whims and fancies. Just keep in mind that the amp should be discrete and not digital and also not mosfet. Set them up on good sturdy table/ rack(s)/ stands. Allow them to burn in for say about 30 hrs, on the least, and then check room acoustics problems. If required, make minor corrections like using curtains or placement variations of your system and other furniture, but don't think too much of this. Use the bass and treble knobs as required, to make adjustments for warm and bright sounds, and also for room acoustics problems.

Close your eyes, forget about the room and the brand of your equipment(s), and listen to music, you will have musical nirvana and become a music person.

Open your eyes, and keep thinking about room acoustics and the brand your equipment(s), then you will not have musical nirvana, but you will be a true audiophile.

Now the choice is yours, have musical nirvana or become an audiophile.

 

[kvandhi]

No offence to anyone, but the truth is most of the so called audiophiles do not have the capacity to know whether a note as been rendered absolutely correctly or not. Audiophiles, because of their nature, are fooled by the marketing hypes of various companies. So don't waste time trying to be an audiophile, and don't get too deep into auditions, room corrections or other factors like warm and bright sound, etc., etc. Remember, no amp or speaker is perfect, neither is any room perfect, you are to listen to music in home, so let your home remain a home and not become a studio. Get any amp and speaker, either from the lowest priced Indian made Norge or costlier MNC brands, as per your budget, whims and fancies. Just keep in mind that the amp should be discrete and not digital and also not mosfet. Set them up on good sturdy table/ rack(s)/ stands. Allow them to burn in for say about 30 hrs, on the least, and then check room acoustics problems. If required, make minor corrections like using curtains or placement variations of your system and other furniture, but don't think too much of this. Use the bass and treble knobs as required, to make adjustments for warm and bright sounds, and also for room acoustics problems.

Close your eyes, forget about the room and the brand of your equipment(s), and listen to music, you will have musical nirvana and become a music person.

Open your eyes, and keep thinking about room acoustics and the brand your equipment(s), then you will not have musical nirvana, but you will be a true audiophile.

Now the choice is yours, have musical nirvana or become an audiophile.

Thanks vinyl. This is one of the greatest advice which will help me to be musical lover than audiophile. I am still wonder , why people are still not satisfied with existing setup and upgrade often. Maybe they are slowly becoming audiophile.

 

[vinyl]

Thanks vinyl. This is one of the greatest advice which will help me to be musical lover than audiophile. I am still wonder , why people are still not satisfied with existing setup and upgrade often. Maybe they are slowly becoming audiophile.

It's because of two factors. One factor is the neighbour's grass, that is always greener, and the other factor is the changes that a human mind likes. So if one has a certain system, and on some occasion gets to hear some other system, then because of the 3 or 4% difference in sound signatures of both systems, the above mentioned factors come into play, and people keep on upgrading endlessly.
I am not saying that one should not upgrade, one should upgrade as an when required, but it should be justified and not endless. Amps and speakers, if standard, once purchased, don't need to be upgraded. Interconnects can be upraded, but only upto a certain point which is not a very costly point/level, and beyond that is worthless. A standard turntable's rubber mat can be upgraded to a cork or woolen one, but for only minor subtle differences, a stock cartridge upgrade may or may not be required, depending upon the stock cart, and if upgradation is required, it need not be endless. If one has a relay stabiliser, then one can upgrade to a servo and isolation, but not beyond that unless one thinks of an online UPS.
So if one buys standard equipment, then endless upgrades are not required, and standard equipments do not cost like a house in which they will be housed.
In the days of vintage, upgradations were not required, as the manufactures knew what to do and they did that right. But in today's scenario some manufacturers do not do things right deliberately, and use a lot of marketing hypes to trap audiophiles.
If one compares the audio quality of one system (amp and speaker) costing about 30 to 40K, with another system costing about 3000K, the difference will be about 5%.
So one can decide for onself, how much too spend on these hifi equipments, and how much and where to upgrade.

 

[Indranil Sen]

I am not sure if we can generalize the idea of music lover and audiophile being two spearate categories. Although there are folks who love to be at the extreme end of any side but in general we (audiophile or not) love music and love to hear it in a way that it is originally recorded. There is no way to discount the 2nd part which many a times leads to several audio component upgrades. It's very hard to model this upgrade behaviour because there are many factors involved in the process which vary across individuals. Factors range from incorrect component selection to the urge to get the latest technology as it is introduced in the market. I don't see anything wrong here as long as folks can afford it. Again this excludes those folks who buy components just for the pleasure of buying or for a different purpose like status-symbol than audio. There are manufacturers in the market to cater to this segment but that is out of scope for this discussion.
If the quality of music or music reproduction didn't matter then we would perhaps be happy with mp3 files and a player that can play it. Are we?
Thanks.

 

[vinyl]

1. I am not sure if we can generalize the idea of music lover and audiophile being two spearate categories.

2.Although there are folks who love to be at the extreme end of any side but in general we (audiophile or not) love music and love to hear it in a way that it is originally recorded.

3.There is no way to discount the 2nd part which many a times leads to several audio component upgrades. It's very hard to model this upgrade behaviour because there are many factors involved in the process which vary across individuals. Factors range from incorrect component selection to the urge to get the latest technology as it is introduced in the market. I don't see anything wrong here as long as folks can afford it. If the quality of music or music reproduction didn't matter then we would perhaps be happy with mp3 files and a player that can play it. Are we?

Thanks.

1. A music lover is a person who loves and knows how to enjoy music, without being too much concerned about brands. I can explain further, but have no time for it.

2.Music once recorded, never sounds like the original natural music, all recorded music, no matter how well they are recorded, have their own flaws. I am myself into music, and I know this very well.

3.That's what I am saying, upgrades are required wherever and whenever required, but standard equipment does not require frequent/ endless upgrades, and these standard equipment do not cost too much. As far as latest technology, is concerned, the technology of amplifiers, speakers and turntables have been perfected since a number of decades ago, in the days of vintage. Any other latest technology in this sphere is only marketing gimmicks. As far as cd/ digital formats music is concerned, it's technology had been changing towards the best and the latest, but what happened, it is again losing out to analog. Technological improvements have a limit, and they can't go beyond that. And of course, mp3s are shit.

We should use technology for our benefit, but not become too much engrossed in it.
As far as music is concerned, instead of being so much concerned of the latest technologies, and the urge to upgrade, one needs to just dive deep into music and enjoy it.