An interesting article on KEF products pricing

[Amitkg]

I'd like to live in country where I can enjoy my music leisurely on Sunday with affordable speakers rather than wasting the only free day vacuuming, dish washing, mowing the lawn when my high end speakers (which are cheaper than everywhere else) eat dust. Its just my thinking not meant to offend anyone thinking otherwise.

You misunderstood the point. It is not about 'affordable speakers' or 'hi end speakers'. Let me put it this way; If I can't afford Honda-City, I will probably settle for Maruti Alto but I would complain, voice my displeasure if Maruti Alto is priced at 10Lac; yes, no one is putting a gun to my head but I will voice my displeasure.

and on the contrary, I would like to see that our nation learns right use of 'cheap-labour'. Ramus ( no offense to the name) are always at our disposal and that makes us lazy. I've seen over-pampered kids who don't even pour water in the tumbler when they are thirsty because a Ramu or a Shantabai or a Kantabai is constantly at their beck and call. Dignity of labour is just a concept here in urban India. What if these semi-skilled or unskilled labourers are given training and then employed in manufacturing industries, India will be another global production hub. One may call it wishful thinking but look at China; be it high-end audio gear, drone, computer peripheral or toy, camera, TV.........long list...... , everything is made in China, major global brands have set their feet in China. If we really want to make our nation successful, we have to change our attitude; probably then we don't have to import goods from China or EU/US and we will stop fretting about unduly high-priced av gears.

Doing the domestic chores once a week is actually not a bad idea.

 

[drkrack]

You misunderstood the point. It is not about 'affordable speakers' or 'hi end speakers'. Let me put it this way; If I can't afford Honda-City, I will probably settle for Maruti Alto but I would complain, voice my displeasure if Maruti Alto is priced at 10Lac; yes, no one is putting a gun to my head but I will voice my displeasure.

and on the contrary, I would like to see that our nation learns right use of 'cheap-labour'. Ramus ( no offense to the name) are always at our disposal and that makes us lazy. I've seen over-pampered kids who don't even pour water in the tumbler when they are thirsty because a Ramu or a Shantabai or a Kantabai is constantly at their beck and call. Dignity of labour is just a concept here in urban India. What if these semi-skilled or unskilled labourers are given training and then employed in manufacturing industries, India will be another global production hub. One may call it wishful thinking but look at China; be it high-end audio gear, drone, computer peripheral or toy, camera, TV.........long list...... , everything is made in China, major global brands have set their feet in China. If we really want to make our nation successful, we have to change our attitude; probably then we don't have to import goods from China or EU/US and we will stop fretting about unduly high-priced av gears.

Doing the domestic chores once a week is actually not a bad idea.

Oops, you're missing my point and getting confused in semantics (dignity of labor, good parenting and what not..) ; let me try one more time probably in a audiophile way...
It costed just over 1L to get room acoustics done by professionals in India, it'd be nearly thrice costlier if I were to get it done in USA.

With a strained spine, I might be able to do daily chores with difficulty, as I have been doing it occasionally for last 30yrs ; but I could not have got room acoustics done all by myself. Many things are much cheaper in India compared to USA, we don't realize & keep cribbing on things we don't have.

Back to OT-
I still feel that, if we voice our opinion strongly in a public forums ; Manfacturers have to relent and mend their ways. Nobody can ignore Indian market currently in my honest opinion. But that requires a unified approach from all forum members discouraging people from buying overpriced stuff from Indian distributors, ultimately whom does any product belong to? Its the consumer not the Manfacturer (hope you remember the Brillcream incident) !

Ultimately buying from Grey market (where you do not pay, underpay or have no intention of paying customs & circumvent the official code by bribing etc) legally amounts to supporting Smuggling, which should be avoided as much as idea of supporting online piracy. Here again I'm not blaming anyone, practically it is completely OK to save few bucks in whatever way one can but, law abiding citizens should not be forced to resort to such measures because of horrible company policies.
Just my 2 cents
Thanks

 

[Deleted member 38504]

I don't see the big deal with prices being high in this country. If one can afford it, he will buy it. He's not going to make comparison to prices elsewhere.

The dealers/distributors etc are all working to provide for their families too. There is no free lunch anywhere. We all work to make money. Have it,flaunt it. Else migrate to a place where Dali is cheaper.

What you want you probably don't need, what u need, you most probably have.

 

[nipunkx]

I don't see the big deal with prices being high in this country. If one can afford it, he will buy it. He's not going to make comparison to prices elsewhere.

The dealers/distributors etc are all working to provide for their families too. There is no free lunch anywhere. We all work to make money. Have it,flaunt it. Else migrate to a place where Dali is cheaper.

What you want you probably don't need, what u need, you most probably have.

Dont be so harsh celester . Exploiting should be seized no matter where it happens. Regarding free lunch, if you give me a visit I will show you at least 5 places in 5KM distance giving quality free lunch where any one can go and have good food without any questions asked.

 

[Kushanava]

"We don't have a market" - to me is a completely wrong statement.
100% of the population listens to music.
100% of the population Watches movies.

Now coming to the medium. An average target consumer goes to the "Theater" and learns about Good "Picture" and "Surround Sound". He returns home, thinking , I need a "Big" television and 5 speakers ( It will play music too). He goes to a Shopping mall or a digital store and gets a Sony/Philips/Samsung 40'' TV with Home- theater ( as accessory bonus) and happily lives with it. Now a premium customer will have the same view and get a Projector and "Bose" ( every Indian knows they are good except for people like us).

How in the world you are expecting to get a Customer when you are not promoting your brands ? Its like chicken and egg , No consumers , hence Niche market and hence higher prices. Dealers , please start advertising!!!

Remember every "Kantabhai" now craves for a "touch screen mobile" not because they need it , but because it was advertised in television and some "Santabhai" has told him about it.

 

[square_wave]

From a pricing perspective, distributer / retailer group sometimes take a strategy called consumer surplus method to try and sell the product at the maximum price the customer is willing to pay. This essentially reduces volume of sales but each product sold is at a premium. For some kind of products, this strategy works and they continue in this fashion. It also helps keep the product in the premium category which increases brand equity among the super rich. The retailers also get to deal with less people and hence less hassles.

However, this pricing strategy keeps the brand away from the masses. They will however procure the same using their own methods which is again sales to the brand / company. Keeps the retailer as well as the company happy.

 

[sidvee]

Guys call me a skeptic. Do let me know when all of this discussion does lead to lower prices at par with international markets for majority of the products. It is ok to vent here - I suppose forums are a good mechanism for that - but I am not holding my breath.
When everything in India is priced exorbitantly (especially when it is imported), I do not think AV equipment is an exception and I do not think prices are going down anytime soon. Only exception would be products made in India, but I heard recently that a local manufacturer who had differential pricing has now increased his prices to match international pricing. I am not criticizing anyone - I for one would love lower prices of AV-equipment (I buy a lot of equipment) - but expecting them is not going to happen imo.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Hari Iyer]

IMO, the price of any product is not usually cost + overheads + margins, but what the buyer is willing to pay.

For e.g. An item may cost Rs.10,000 + a margin of say Rs.5000/-+ duties & taxes Rs.5000/-. So typically the price of the product should have been Rs.20000/-. But if the buyer is willing to pay say Rs.50,000/- for this item then that becomes the price of the product. Given that there are no regulations and cartel between distributors and dealers globally nothing much can be done about it.

On the contrary even if the price of the product is Rs.20,000/- and not even a single piece is sold, then keeping the price at Rs.20,000/- does not hold sense. So if buyer is willing to buy the same product at a discounted price of Rs.15,000/- then that becomes the realistic price of the product.

Again the above is my personal view.

 

[hydra]

I've always wondered why manufacturers don't sell direct in India, and cut out the D&D. It would be a win-win situation for both the manufacturers and the end-buyers, and in most cases, it would make no difference in the buying experience (and most often even the post-purchase experience) to the end-buyer. The manufacturer could charge a small premium over their dealer price + customs duty + local shipping from the buyer, and the buyer would in most cases end up paying at least a 20% lesser final price.

I'm going to have to generalize a bit to illustrate this, and I do know that all D&Ds do not fall into this category.

I would expect a Dealer/Distributor to offer the following services:

1) Ready showroom demo of the item. Or at least a demo of the item (within a reasonable period of time) with no compulsion to buy it (within a reasonable period of time) unless I really liked it.

2) Home audition of the item for a serious buyer.

3) Post purchase support in terms of full warranty support as detailed in the warranty documentation that comes with the item. That means if you sell it, you should be able to service it and repair it or offer a hassle-free replacement if that is what the warranty says.

4) Advice about purchase options to a buyer who is serious, but is not very well versed with what options he has.

In India, what usually happens is that the buyer decides what he most likely wants to buy, and the D&D will order it for him if the buyer places a confirmed order, and pays an advance. There is rarely a demo unit available to let the buyer audition, and if the buyer wants to go around auditioning all his options (as we so frequently advise everyone here) before he decides, he rarely gets to audition everything he'd like to. (There is nothing wrong in collecting an advance if the dealer has a demo unit, but has to order a sale unit for the buyer, or if the buyer wants a home demo/audition).

And (thankfully I have no experience of this) typically from what I hear, if your purchased item needs repair, there is no possibility of repair. Either "a part has to be ordered" (and mysteriously never arrives), or there simply is no competent service.

All this is after the buyer pays a substantial premium over the sale price of the item in it's home market.

In such situations, I think everyone would be best served by cutting out the D&D altogether and let the buyer and manufacturer do business with each other. There would be no difference in the purchase experience, and the buyer would end up paying lesser than what he would have, had there been a D&D in between.

 

[hydra]

...it'd be nearly thrice costlier if I were to get it done in USA.

...Many things are much cheaper in India compared to USA, we don't realize & keep cribbing on things we don't have.

...

This basic aspect about our country is what I use to justify the inflated prices of most hobby-based purchases to myself. We rarely see how cheap it is here to get a lot of things done related to the inflated one-time purchase price of our hobby items.

I'm very much into cycling, and I used to lament the typical 40% to 60% premium on cycle and cycling equipment prices in India. But after a while, I understood that a $2000 cycle may come to $3000 or more in India, but here, I could get a full (competently performed) service done for $10 to $15, while it would likely cost $200 to $250 for the same in the US.

 

[tuff]

But isn't that the point, that if the basic labor is less than say Europe or US, the margins should also be less on the dealer end?

 

[Deleted member 38504]

I would love to own a speaker or amp that costs 25000 in the US but 1 lac here. But I can't afford it. So I have a denon 520BT and a Marantz pm6005.

Why should someone else like a dealer for example, take a cut in his margin to satisfy our audio needs? There are people who can afford it and buy it.

It's not being harsh nipun, just that's the way life is. Practical.

I'm definitely not taking a cut in my salary just cause someone else feels I'm overpaid.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk

 

[panditji]

The problem is that the distributor does not want to invest in the brand by buying a decent quantity of stock and get it shipped by the most economical method by sea... That would mean much lower costs but then the distributor would have to block capital which none of them want to...

What stops the Indian dist. to take pre orders and deliver within 2-3 months of placing the order and therefore keeping some stock and some pre orders whereby taking advantage of economies of scale...The only reason this is not happening is because the distributors are not serious about the brands they stock... I know distributors who take orders for single units and then get them shipped by DHL on which additional duties are paid for an already very high shipping cost...

When we have a forum here, why can't people do group buys and negotiate with the distributor? The only thng needed is a small deposit from the consumer as wel as patience and we can easily drive a good deal from the distributor keeping the brand in loop....