Kaushik said:
"one can measure the physical quantities like voltages, wave form parameters with what soever equipments but the musicality /tonality /the characteristics of sound still [will be possible...] remains to be discovered, here we are dealing with a complex set of waveforms .... these needs hi-end DSP processing and standardization of the parameters that constitute the overall output wave ,what adds to this complexity is that the parameters are interrelated "
That is just what I have been saying, Musicality, tonality, and characteristics are all how you perceive a sound you are hearing. This as I said, has any value
only after the sounds have reached your ears. Till then, from the source through all the playing, amplification, and transportation through all the connectors and cables are just analogue or digital signals that are transported as electrical signals, All I am saying is that these signals can be measured. Once the sound leaves the speakers , they become sound waves. These again can be measured using a combination of wavelength, frequency, and amplitude. What happens to the sound after it has entered ones ears is his personal perception.
Kaushik said:
here i will elaborate with example ,
i have a YAMAHA Rxv361 , [ is not a pro audio system ] i used to connect the speakers with some ordinary wire ..the unit has a stereo ption that i use for music listening with two speakers
one day i thought of giving a try with OFC cables ..so i purchased some 6 meters cable fron SPROAD ,bangalore
i was very surprised by the difference the cables made ...
bass was 30% more and many other previously unnoticed sounds came alive
. i tested the unit in 2 speaker mode while using front L R out puts ....i changed the
different DSP modes ..n felt each mode added some distictive characteristics to the output
Also the how good cables will sound is matter of matching with the system
another example ,
i have a small taiwan made stereo micro DVD system with inbuilt amp ,
with custom fitted crossover added by me to the small speakers , the unit had ordinary wires to connect the speakers
here i tried the OFC cables, they did not made any big difference "
finally to conclude my comments ....
yes, the marketing people exploit the cable and interconnects with
some virtual terminology
but "The cable matters !"
tests done by forum member soundsgreat [shreekanth] ..shows how the cables can contribute to the final output..
I never said that cables do not matter. Special cables and connectors have been designed and manufactured for audio and video and they should be used. At the same time, I will be very careful about subscribing to the claims of high end connector and cable manufacturers. In multiple blind testes run by magazines such as Stereophile and Secrets of Home Theater And HiFi, Audioholics, they have never been able to come to any conclusion about expensive and esoteric cables and connectors being better than regular ones manufactured for the audio industry.
According to Audioholics, a well designed and manufactured cable of between 12 and 16 AWG will provide excellent characteristics to be used as cables. The only other thing that is important is that the cables are properly terminated so they don't become noisy, and that the shield is of good quality and provides complete protection from external interfering signals. Terminations will normally be either soldered or crimped, and either is fine as long as it is well made.
The use of gold in wires is really ironic as gold has less conductance than copper. The use of gold plated connectors, on the other hand, is common and advisable as gold is a better conductor than nickel, and gold does not tarnish easily.
The use of silver wire is a complete waste, since the only benefit of silver is its lower resistance - about 8% less than copper. Since this will make a few micro-ohms difference for a typical 1 meter length, the difference in signal amplitude is immeasurably small with typical pre and power amp impedance. On the down side, silver tarnishes easily (especially in areas where there is hydrogen sulphide pollution in the atmosphere), and this can become an insulator and adversely affect the signal.
According to Jason Victor of Secrets of Home Theater, it is human nature to have opinions based upon certain perceptions. When you say, "I hear a difference", it is an opinion. Only when an opinion is backed by scientific and measurable numbers does it become a fact. He goes on to say, and I quote.
QUOTE START
Does that make the person who says ??I hear a difference?? a liar? Of course not! Does the fact that so many people say the same thing give the statement more credence? No! The whole world believed the earth to be the center of the universe at one time. I??m sure most of those who were current with, and knew of the work of Galileo and Copernicus, died still believing the earth was the center of everything. The point here is that it natural for us to have these perceptions, BUT, please good people, do not confuse them with reality.
Now, why is it that our senses fail us so? A big part of this, especially when we??re talking about audio, has to do with the fact that what seems straightforward and reasonable is not. It seems straightforward and reasonable to listen to a piece of audio equipment and then develop an opinion on how it sounds. Unfortunately, due to the complex way that we humans take in sensory information and then combine it with prior knowledge and experience, the resulting perception may be incorrect. If we really want to know how something sounds, we must separate out prior knowledge and visual cues and force ourselves to only use our ears. This is why we do the test blind. Our eyes play a HUGE role in our perceptions of audio quality. Counter intuitive? Yes, but true.
Now there are perfectly good reasons to buy expensive power cords. For one they look cool. ??The better it looks, the better it sounds.?? (This has been shown to be the case in studies that compare sighted to blind tests using identical equipment.) Another reason to buy them is that they cost a lot. They are status symbols. Status is good in our culture. Fear is another reason. Fear of not doing everything you can to get ??the best sound.' Of course there is plain old faith. If you believe that they make your stereo system sound better, then they do! If having them makes you feel better, makes you more relaxed when you listen to music, gives you comfort in knowing that you have left no stone unturned in your pursuit of musical enjoyment, by all means, go for it!
QUOTE ENDS
Saikat said:
It is not true that just because the cable is a 'CAT 6', there will be no loss of data. The x value in CAT 'x' just talks about the quality of the cable with respect to crosstalk and noise, hence CAT 6 is better than CAT 5 at handling signals.
Note: Better has nothing to do with it being completely loss-less. As part of my work, we work with these cables all the time and let me assure you that data packets get lost all the time. As pointed out earlier, its the job of the higher level to understand this loss and re-transmit the lost/damaged data (use of any error correction IC's etc indicates the usage of a higher level protocol). Again, the physical medium, ie. the cable is not loss-less.
About the ''audio grade" CAT 6, i believe some marketing is at work... If such a cable was indeed to be discovered/ invented, the communication industry would be very very happy (more jobs to cut).
I never said that CAT 6 is loss less. When you move a signal from one end to another of any transmission media, wired or otherwise, you will necessarily have some losses in between. This is true of any signal transmission. Fortunately in digital signal, by adding a simple checksum at the end of a block of data, you can ensure that the receiver confirm the validity of the data without any reference to the input. I am surprised why some of the progress made in computers have not yet trickled down to audio and video, but they will. Compared to analogue, digital data is easy to manage.
Dinyaar said:
Firstly let me clarify that i believe that cables make a difference.(will be a hippocrite to say otherwise after the amount of hours / money i have spent experimenting with various cables in the last decade)
I cant quantify the difference with a figure or a percentage as it varies in different set ups. IMO it does fine tune the system and get the optimum performance from the set up. Problems start when people proclaim cables can achieve similar to tone controls!!!!!!!!!!! or describe cables with words which are better used to describe the weather!!!
I use mid level transparent ICS now in my set up and my old kimber 8TC speaker cables and see no reason to upgrade. I have not followed the standard 5- 10 % of total system cost on cables as i dont feel the need to.
Power cords i am still to figure out!!!!! My amplifier manual suggests i stick to the stock power cords and not use any power conditioner as in their opinion it will add nothing instead a conditioner may adversely affect the performance of the amp when its draws higher current. Now the supplied lead is a 3 core 1.5 sq.mm cable for an amp capable of delivering 300WPC into 8 ohms and 500WPC into a 4 ohm load!
I appreciate your feelings and your belief. I also use moderately expensive cables in my audio and video system. At home, I have wired the whole house with Finolex cables with twice the capacity of what was recommended was needed. In the last ten years, the mains cables coming into my house from EB has burnt twice, but nothing has happened to the electrical wires inside my house. I have experimented with a mumber of speakers cables and connectors till I found one I am happy with and within the budget I could afford.
To enhance what Muthu says further down, manufacturers of high end audio equipment back their claims with scientific reasoning. Their products are tested time and again using scientific instruments. Then listening tests are conducted, and the design goes back to the drawing board. The drawing board, testing, and listening cycle is gone through 'n' number of times till the product is deemed fit to be sent to the market.
Unfortunately many manufacturers of the 'very' high end cables and connectors do not follow this principle. When a cable manufacturer claims his cable needs a 'break in' period, eliminates non-linear distortions such as audiogenic or diode rectification, places cable elevators at both ends, cryogenically freezes for improved fidelity.....welllllllll all I can say is that these are not for me.