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AVR + Amp or Separates? Is there a difference?

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SonomaComa

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I was wondering if I was to purchase an A/V Receiver and then later down the line add an amp to it would the sound quality be an different than using separates? Are there any advantages of an AVR as a Pre/Pro besides being able to use it right away and upgrade to a dedicated power supply sometime down the line if needed?
I know the Pioneer Elite SC-61 is a 7.2 channel A/V Receiver that is actually already rated down to 4 ohms and has Pre Outs for all channels, not just the front two. And that starts around $1,100. That is the first one price wise in their line up that has Pre Outs for all channels. Marantz does not say that they are rated to 4ohms as far as I was able to see but I have heard other people say they are.
 

navin advani

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I was wondering if I was to purchase an A/V Receiver and then later down the line add an amp to it would the sound quality be an different than using separates? Are there any advantages of an AVR as a Pre/Pro besides being able to use it right away and upgrade to a dedicated power supply sometime down the line if needed?
I know the Pioneer Elite SC-61 is a 7.2 channel A/V Receiver that is actually already rated down to 4 ohms and has Pre Outs for all channels, not just the front two. And that starts around $1,100. That is the first one price wise in their line up that has Pre Outs for all channels. Marantz does not say that they are rated to 4ohms as far as I was able to see but I have heard other people say they are.
It is similar to when audiophiles bought seperate preamps and power amps. I dont see most pre-processors having better processing than their AVR counterparts though.

BTW If considering the Elite 61 I would also look at the Yamaha Aventage 1020 and Onkyo NR1010.
 

shanmune

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I was wondering if I was to purchase an A/V Receiver and then later down the line add an amp to it would the sound quality be an different than using separates? Are there any advantages of an AVR as a Pre/Pro besides being able to use it right away and upgrade to a dedicated power supply sometime down the line if needed?
I know the Pioneer Elite SC-61 is a 7.2 channel A/V Receiver that is actually already rated down to 4 ohms and has Pre Outs for all channels, not just the front two. And that starts around $1,100. That is the first one price wise in their line up that has Pre Outs for all channels. Marantz does not say that they are rated to 4ohms as far as I was able to see but I have heard other people say they are.
Let's say -
(AV receiver with pre-out + Power amp) - Package1
(AV processor + Power amp) - Package2 (also called as seperates)

A very tough to answer what could be the difference between package-1 and Package-2 in terms of performance. Generally, seperates (package2) are considered for high end users (like musicians or people who are extreme audiohiles). Since they are considered to be for high end users, they tend to have a very high quality components in the making of the AV processors. For example, AV processor will have high cost DSP chips/better videos upscale hardware. That is why you can see the least price of any AV processor is almost equal to the price of a top end AV receiver.
Now - this is what how companies market Package2 calling them as Elite.

In reality, I some how get a feeling that both Package-1 and Package-2 will be almost same in performance (that is what I feel). Even then, a normal audiophile may not be able to say any difference between the sounda quaity of Package-1 and Package-2. Some people say there is no point in spending too much money when there is no any appreciable gain in the sound quality. That is, beyond some price point, there is no any significant difference in the performance. From that context, both Package-1 and Package-2 should sound the same. What I have found is that most of the AV processors (in package2) have more conectivity options than an AV receiver (in package1). For example, the number of zones, HDMI inputs/outputs, etc.

And anothe thing about the Pioneer Ekite SC-61 (having a pre-out) costing around $1100. I do see other brands offering pre-outs for all the 7.1 channels with a price much lower than that. That is, in case if you want to go for package1, then you can go for a minimum budget AV receiver which has pre-outs for all the channels. In case if you are going only for a pure AV receiver (without the additional power amp), then probably Pioneer Elire SC-61 might be offering better power/impedance combination.
 

shanmune

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It is similar to when audiophiles bought seperate preamps and power amps. I dont see most pre-processors having better processing than their AVR counterparts though.

BTW If considering the Elite 61 I would also look at the Yamaha Aventage 1020 and Onkyo NR1010.
Yes, I too agree to that point. It could be a marketing ploy from the companies to show AV processor (pre-amp) as an elite part and charge very high.
 

SonomaComa

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Thanks for that valuable info. So there probably is a difference in the build quality. And to find out the differences between an AVR and a Pre/Pro would take some pretty good investigating.
And not to mention room correction, some even adjust the SQ at low volume levels. Even then I think Marantz has 3 different versions of that.
So for about $1,100 someone would probably get a better quality from a Pre/Pro opposed to an AVR.
 

prosenjit

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is it possible to get pre/pro and a separate power amp for 1100 usd??
i have zero idea about it..
lets sqay
a power amp say 5 ch 80 w emotiva costs 400 usd..

so with 700 usd if any pre/pro is avilable...if avilabale

then i think its s better option...

than a 700 usd avr...

otherwise a 700 usd or less priced pre out avr is good...
 

manoj.p

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I know this is not speaking for all the manufacturer's out there. But there are innards pictures of Marantz AV7005 online, which is exactly identical as Marantz SR7005. Which again have innards exactly like Denon 3311.

Google it. :)
 

efernand1

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Hi,

AVR is mostly used for Home Theatre purpose...enjoy concerts / movies etc...music use is a bit limited and you may not really get the 'PUNCH' you would get from a stereo integrated amplifier....

There are some good companies out there like Cambridge Audio, Marantz etc who make good AVRs with decent outputs which range from 50 w RMS pc to 130 w RMS pc...(you will need to check on their respective websites)..these AVRs are a bit expensive but with the budget you have stated is achievable....the biggest point is that MUSIC is not compromised and you will still enjoy your MOVIES as great as your MUSIC....honestly there are so many AVRs in the market today claiming a lot of EQ calibiration modes, surround modes....the question is ...how many modes do we really use????
Also the higher models of these brands come with pre outs for each channel so later you can expand by adding more power amps or powered speakers...

Cheers.

Eddie
 

shanmune

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is it possible to get pre/pro and a separate power amp for 1100 usd??
i have zero idea about it..
lets sqay
a power amp say 5 ch 80 w emotiva costs 400 usd..

so with 700 usd if any pre/pro is avilable...if avilabale

then i think its s better option...

than a 700 usd avr...

otherwise a 700 usd or less priced pre out avr is good...
Based on what ever I know, pre-pro+power-amp cannot be bought for $1100. In fact Marantz AV7005 pre/pro) itself costs around $1500. As I said in my previous post, companies always want to position seperates as Elite and so I guess they won't be ready to show it at lesser rates. A marketing gimmick ... :D ... over pricing just to create an illusion :lol:

Imagine if one can get a pre-pro even for less than $1000, then all the companies will be shutting down the shops for AV receivers ..
 

manoj.p

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is it possible to get pre/pro and a separate power amp for 1100 usd??
i have zero idea about it..
lets sqay
a power amp say 5 ch 80 w emotiva costs 400 usd..

so with 700 usd if any pre/pro is avilable...if avilabale

then i think its s better option...

than a 700 usd avr...

otherwise a 700 usd or less priced pre out avr is good...
There is a barebones pre-pro Outlaw 975 at $549. Emotiva is also launching UMC-200 for introductory price of $599.
 

shanmune

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There is a barebones pre-pro Outlaw 975 at $549. Emotiva is also launching UMC-200 for introductory price of $599.
I am yet to see the specs for Outlaw 975. How is that when compared to AV-receiver+power amp combination ? I mean - do we miss any room correction calibration, decoding standards ?? If not, that will be a great combination.
 

manoj.p

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I am yet to see the specs for Outlaw 975. How is that when compared to AV-receiver+power amp combination ? I mean - do we miss any room correction calibration, decoding standards ?? If not, that will be a great combination.
Outlaw does not have a room correction. It does have level and distance adjustments but you need an external spl meter to measure the level and do gain setting.

Whether one can miss the room correction will depend on the room. In a perfect/ideal room, there won't be any need for the correction. If the room has issues, then room correction can take care of some modes. As said earlier, its a simple, bare-bone processor, meant for fast and easy deployment.
 

GeorgeO

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I've got a pre pro and a separate power amp-let me just say that ultimately what you pay is what you get. Ultimately if you compare a low cost pair of separates with a high end AVR then the comparison is not strictly comparable. My Marantz AV 7005( which replaced my Emotiva UMC 1) sounds excellent for both 2 channel as well as for HT, and I had posted a link to the benefits of separates a while ago, let me see if I can locate it.

Here's one:
Receivers vs. Separates | Home Theater

and another

Marantz AV7005 7.1 A/V Processor - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

I'm not going to flatly state that there is only one way to find the holy grail and all others are useless.At the end of the day each one finds the best suited solution and that is best!
 

Viki

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Couldn't agree with you more, GeorgeO. After several AVRs from Yamaha, Onkyo, CA, Pioneer etc, I am finally happy with my AV7005, used with a stereo amp for front two channels (ht bypass) and an MM7055 for all other channels. Never thought I would say this, but it seems I am happy and unlikely to change anything..... Except maybe a better stereo amp:)
 

shanmune

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I've got a pre pro and a separate power amp-let me just say that ultimately what you pay is what you get. Ultimately if you compare a low cost pair of separates with a high end AVR then the comparison is not strictly comparable. My Marantz AV 7005( which replaced my Emotiva UMC 1) sounds excellent for both 2 channel as well as for HT, and I had posted a link to the benefits of separates a while ago, let me see if I can locate it.

Here's one:
Receivers vs. Separates | Home Theater

and another

Marantz AV7005 7.1 A/V Processor - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

I'm not going to flatly state that there is only one way to find the holy grail and all others are useless.At the end of the day each one finds the best suited solution and that is best!
That's great and I fully agree with you. Yes - any given day, seperates are of different class compared to AV receivers alone. But the question/doubt I have is - Can I simply go for a decent AV receiver having all channel pre-outs (say - Marantz SR5007 - around $800) and connect it with a power amp (combination-1) ? - OR - Buy a pre-pro (say AV7005 - around $1500) and connect the same with a power amp (combination 2)? I feel both the combinations will sound the same. What is your opinion ? As some one pointed out, even the high end model like SR7005 (with 7 channels pre-out) looks to be same as AV7005, but still SR7005 is cheaper than AV7005. Let me put the question this way - Is the pre-pro's (AV7005) processing unit anytime better than the processing unit of an AV receiver (SR5007 or SR6007) ?
 

GeorgeO

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Shanmune

I think you can get the AV 7005 for considerably less than 1500, look at accessories4less.com-they used to carry this for around $1000, sometime ago. I think the real answer to your question is similar to a counter question-is a pre amp + power amp combo better than an integrated amp? It depends..But a good combo -and chances are a good combo will cost more-is better, in my opinion. I agree with you you that when you compare the prices of Marantx AVR and AV prepro, they processing part cannot be identical if the price for prepro is significantly higher than the AVR!
 
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