AVR+Power Amp or Integrated Amp for Music & Movies

Akshit2111

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Oct 19, 2017
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Location
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My Current Gear (5.1.4 Setup)
Speakers-- POLK audio RTIA7 CSI A4 Elac Surround
Atmos: RC80i speakers
SUb XTZ 10.17
AVR Marantz 6013


Hi Guys

suffering from upgradetitus! :p

Just curious

I am sort of not satisfied with music performance on my AVR. It gets pretty darn warm and although my speakers( polk rti A7) are on a bright side of neutral listening sessions on those volumes become quite fatiguing and don't sound pleasant( obviously).
I have taken suggestions on Polk Forums and ppl there say that the speakers are quite hungry and once you feed them with at least 200+wpc they get in a different league altogether.
After my 4+ years of HiFi Journey, I have realized that movies and music both matter to me equally but I consume music a lot more than movies.

My little research tells me that since AVRs are one box do it all separating the amp section can give great results.

So please find below some series of questions if you guys can address ill really appreciate :)

1) Now if i feed the front two from a separate PA which can pump lets say 140+wpc will that be an upgrade given my AVR is rated at 110 watts per channel 2 Ch driven.
2) I have time and again heard that IA's are much better in terms of music listening Infact i can vouch for that too. So how are IA's more musical is there something besides the power supply?
3) If Sailing in the same boat which upgrade path would you have chosen-- a) get power amp b) get an Integrated with HTbypass c) Change the speakers

Also My budget as of now is quite limited upto 50k.

I know at the given budget i might not be able to afford some high wattage class AB amps or IA's with good power rating but then i'd love to hear your Feedback

Thanks in Advance
 

RajithKumar

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Oct 31, 2013
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Location
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If
My Current Gear (5.1.4 Setup)
Speakers-- POLK audio RTIA7 CSI A4 Elac Surround
Atmos: RC80i speakers
SUb XTZ 10.17
AVR Marantz 6013


Hi Guys

suffering from upgradetitus! :p

Just curious

I am sort of not satisfied with music performance on my AVR. It gets pretty darn warm and although my speakers( polk rti A7) are on a bright side of neutral listening sessions on those volumes become quite fatiguing and don't sound pleasant( obviously).
I have taken suggestions on Polk Forums and ppl there say that the speakers are quite hungry and once you feed them with at least 200+wpc they get in a different league altogether.
After my 4+ years of HiFi Journey, I have realized that movies and music both matter to me equally but I consume music a lot more than movies.

My little research tells me that since AVRs are one box do it all separating the amp section can give great results.

So please find below some series of questions if you guys can address ill really appreciate :)

1) Now if i feed the front two from a separate PA which can pump lets say 140+wpc will that be an upgrade given my AVR is rated at 110 watts per channel 2 Ch driven.
2) I have time and again heard that IA's are much better in terms of music listening Infact i can vouch for that too. So how are IA's more musical is there something besides the power supply?
3) If Sailing in the same boat which upgrade path would you have chosen-- a) get power amp b) get an Integrated with HTbypass c) Change the speakers

Also My budget as of now is quite limited upto 50k.

I know at the given budget i might not be able to afford some high wattage class AB amps or IA's with good power rating but then i'd love to hear your Feedback

Thanks in Advance
If you prefer music more,then better to have an IA with HT bypass ( This will be a one box solution). Also possible try auditioning more speakers and Stereo Amps which may give u a better idea .
For me Polk Rti are good for movies ..for music it's not upto the mark. (Its your choice to decide ).
For movies AVR+ PA will do justice for the current setup.
 

raghupb

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Hookup with Delhi FMs and borrow a poweramp to try out.
You will get an idea if it is the AVR or speakers that make music listening "meh"
Polk RTi are decent speakers for music too, don't give up on them yet.

Cheers,
Raghu
 

Akshit2111

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Messages
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If

If you prefer music more,then better to have an IA with HT bypass ( This will be a one box solution). Also possible try auditioning more speakers and Stereo Amps which may give u a better idea .
For me Polk Rti are good for movies ..for music it's not upto the mark. (Its your choice to decide ).
For movies AVR+ PA will do justice for the current setup.
That is where the confusion lies.
If i go the IA Route that means i have the same speakers and probably not be feeding them the right amount of power.
Also i did audition a few speakers along side my rti speakers( the dealer luckily had rti a7s)
There was q acoustics 3050i
Kef q350 bookshelves
Elac some high end speakers (mrp approx 1 lakh)
Monitor audio bronze 5
And some monitor audio speakers dont remember the model exactly but mrp 2.5 lakhs.
I tried them all with denon avr x4700 for parity in comparison with my current setup.

Frankly few of the speakers had more clarity but somehow at that point of time i couldnt find much value upgrading given that the price to performance upgrade was not satisfactory.
Anyways which Integrated amps would you suggest which can give me a better performance compared to my AVR.
 

Akshit2111

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Oct 19, 2017
Messages
635
Points
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Location
New Delhi
Hookup with Delhi FMs and borrow a poweramp to try out.
You will get an idea if it is the AVR or speakers that make music listening "meh"
Polk RTi are decent speakers for music too, don't give up on them yet.

Cheers,
Raghu
Hi raghu

Point is i personally don't know many hifi enthusiasts in delhi/ncr.
Exactly the other day i was thinking the same that if i change my speakers without realizing their full potential then that would be kind of a missed opportunity.
But given how power hungry they are feeding them with good power might come at a huge cost.
Though i can go the class D route but given my experience with crown i am a little reluctant. (Xtz a2-300 maybe )
 

amrutmhatre90

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Elac's would have been Reference

Hi raghu

Point is i personally don't know many hifi enthusiasts in delhi/ncr.
Exactly the other day i was thinking the same that if i change my speakers without realizing their full potential then that would be kind of a missed opportunity.
But given how power hungry they are feeding them with good power might come at a huge cost.
Though i can go the class D route but given my experience with crown i am a little reluctant. (Xtz a2-300 maybe )

What was the experience with Crowns?

You can try DD amps made by Aniket from Delhi, these are cost effective and excellent Class A/B amplifiers. Cost as much as a Crown XLS. I am sure someone can hook you up. Add a pre amplifier and you are done!
Heck I even sometimes connect LG V30 plus directly to the PA and it sounds wonderful.

Like @raghupb said, don't give up on the speakers, they are good speakers.

Here is a list of amplifiers with HT bypass.
 

Akshit2111

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Messages
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Location
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Elac's would have been Reference



What was the experience with Crowns?

You can try DD amps made by Aniket from Delhi, these are cost effective and excellent Class A/B amplifiers. Cost as much as a Crown XLS. I am sure someone can hook you up. Add a pre amplifier and you are done!
Heck I even sometimes connect LG V30 plus directly to the PA and it sounds wonderful.

Like @raghupb said, don't give up on the speakers, they are good speakers.

Here is a list of amplifiers with HT bypass.
Hi amrut

First of all congratulations on your Youtube Channel and best of luck for the journey ahead.

Those elacs were definitely not reference.

Thank you for the suggestion but if i go the power amp route i don't want to invest in dac and pre as of now. Ill be using my avr as pre+dac. And given that the speakers want amps which are 200+wpc will the pa suggested by you give them justice.
Also though AVRs power ratings are somewhat of a grey area but i guess they still push 110 watts 2 channel driven. So if i add a power amp pumping something lets say 140 watts. Will those 30 plus watts bring about any change in my listening experience?
 

Akshit2111

Active Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Messages
635
Points
43
Location
New Delhi
Elac's would have been Reference



What was the experience with Crowns?

You can try DD amps made by Aniket from Delhi, these are cost effective and excellent Class A/B amplifiers. Cost as much as a Crown XLS. I am sure someone can hook you up. Add a pre amplifier and you are done!
Heck I even sometimes connect LG V30 plus directly to the PA and it sounds wonderful.

Like @raghupb said, don't give up on the speakers, they are good speakers.

Here is a list of amplifiers with HT bypass.

Regarding the experience with Crown

At the point of time my avr was a pretty basic one without preouts so i bought a yamaha wxc preamp cum streamer and hooked it up to crown xls 1502. Comparing my avr with that of the crown setup i liked my AVR sound much better. The bass was not rounded and sounded flat to me.
So cant say whether wxc or crown what ruined the experience.
 

musiz_craze

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Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
113
Points
28
Location
Bangalore
My Current Gear (5.1.4 Setup)
Speakers-- POLK audio RTIA7 CSI A4 Elac Surround
Atmos: RC80i speakers
SUb XTZ 10.17
AVR Marantz 6013


Hi Guys

suffering from upgradetitus! :p

Just curious

I am sort of not satisfied with music performance on my AVR. It gets pretty darn warm and although my speakers( polk rti A7) are on a bright side of neutral listening sessions on those volumes become quite fatiguing and don't sound pleasant( obviously).
I have taken suggestions on Polk Forums and ppl there say that the speakers are quite hungry and once you feed them with at least 200+wpc they get in a different league altogether.
After my 4+ years of HiFi Journey, I have realized that movies and music both matter to me equally but I consume music a lot more than movies.

My little research tells me that since AVRs are one box do it all separating the amp section can give great results.

So please find below some series of questions if you guys can address ill really appreciate :)

1) Now if i feed the front two from a separate PA which can pump lets say 140+wpc will that be an upgrade given my AVR is rated at 110 watts per channel 2 Ch driven.
2) I have time and again heard that IA's are much better in terms of music listening Infact i can vouch for that too. So how are IA's more musical is there something besides the power supply?
3) If Sailing in the same boat which upgrade path would you have chosen-- a) get power amp b) get an Integrated with HTbypass c) Change the speakers

Also My budget as of now is quite limited upto 50k.

I know at the given budget i might not be able to afford some high wattage class AB amps or IA's with good power rating but then i'd love to hear your Feedback

Thanks in Advance

For best stereo =
Preamp (class A ) + Dac +class ab with 120+ Watts + nice branded cables.

This will satisfy your need to listen pure stereo music where you can get real sound from Polk as well.
 

raghupb

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Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
3,316
Points
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Location
Bengaluru
You have a fairly good setup. The AVR is spec'd at 110Wpc in stereo.
Before going down speaker change route or adding components for stereo only, try the simple PA addition.
Both the above options introduce a costly churn.

I have tried the following in the past (pre sub woofer days):
- Marantz NR1605 + Outlaw Audio M2200 + KEFs
- Marantz NR1605 + Parasound 275v2 + KEFs

Outlaws are 200/300Wpc and Parasound is 90/150Wpc. Surprisingly, KEFs sounded better on Parasound.
At present the KEFs are driven by a 55W kit amp and sound really good. Sometimes the sub is turned on.
So total watts, well ... it's a strange game. The first 20-50W is important for a good experience, in my experience.

Cheers,
Raghu
 

DB1989

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2020
Messages
1,465
Points
113
Location
New Delhi
My Current Gear (5.1.4 Setup)
Speakers-- POLK audio RTIA7 CSI A4 Elac Surround
Atmos: RC80i speakers
SUb XTZ 10.17
AVR Marantz 6013


Hi Guys

suffering from upgradetitus! :p

Just curious

I am sort of not satisfied with music performance on my AVR. It gets pretty darn warm and although my speakers( polk rti A7) are on a bright side of neutral listening sessions on those volumes become quite fatiguing and don't sound pleasant( obviously).
I have taken suggestions on Polk Forums and ppl there say that the speakers are quite hungry and once you feed them with at least 200+wpc they get in a different league altogether.
After my 4+ years of HiFi Journey, I have realized that movies and music both matter to me equally but I consume music a lot more than movies.

My little research tells me that since AVRs are one box do it all separating the amp section can give great results.

So please find below some series of questions if you guys can address ill really appreciate :)

1) Now if i feed the front two from a separate PA which can pump lets say 140+wpc will that be an upgrade given my AVR is rated at 110 watts per channel 2 Ch driven.
2) I have time and again heard that IA's are much better in terms of music listening Infact i can vouch for that too. So how are IA's more musical is there something besides the power supply?
3) If Sailing in the same boat which upgrade path would you have chosen-- a) get power amp b) get an Integrated with HTbypass c) Change the speakers

Also My budget as of now is quite limited upto 50k.

I know at the given budget i might not be able to afford some high wattage class AB amps or IA's with good power rating but then i'd love to hear your Feedback

Thanks in Advance
The AVR is competent enough. I have the same one and frankly, it's a matter of preference whether you like the IAs or the SR6013. There are other components which will matter equally, if not more, for music playback. I suspect an amp may not be the solution, at least for the requisite budget.

If it's not too much trouble, feel free to Cart along your speakers to try it with the gear i have. It'll help you zero in on exactly what you need, considering i have the same AVR too.
 

DB1989

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2020
Messages
1,465
Points
113
Location
New Delhi
My Current Gear (5.1.4 Setup)
Speakers-- POLK audio RTIA7 CSI A4 Elac Surround
Atmos: RC80i speakers
SUb XTZ 10.17
AVR Marantz 6013


Hi Guys

suffering from upgradetitus! :p

Just curious

I am sort of not satisfied with music performance on my AVR. It gets pretty darn warm and although my speakers( polk rti A7) are on a bright side of neutral listening sessions on those volumes become quite fatiguing and don't sound pleasant( obviously).
I have taken suggestions on Polk Forums and ppl there say that the speakers are quite hungry and once you feed them with at least 200+wpc they get in a different league altogether.
After my 4+ years of HiFi Journey, I have realized that movies and music both matter to me equally but I consume music a lot more than movies.

My little research tells me that since AVRs are one box do it all separating the amp section can give great results.

So please find below some series of questions if you guys can address ill really appreciate :)

1) Now if i feed the front two from a separate PA which can pump lets say 140+wpc will that be an upgrade given my AVR is rated at 110 watts per channel 2 Ch driven.
2) I have time and again heard that IA's are much better in terms of music listening Infact i can vouch for that too. So how are IA's more musical is there something besides the power supply?
3) If Sailing in the same boat which upgrade path would you have chosen-- a) get power amp b) get an Integrated with HTbypass c) Change the speakers

Also My budget as of now is quite limited upto 50k.

I know at the given budget i might not be able to afford some high wattage class AB amps or IA's with good power rating but then i'd love to hear your Feedback

Thanks in Advance
The AVR is competent enough. I have the same one and frankly, it's a matter of preference whether you like the IAs or the SR6013. There are other components which will equally, if not more, matter for music playback. I suspect an amp may not be the solution, at least for the requisite budget.

If it's not too much trouble, feel free to Cart your speakers along. I have a variety of gear that you can try it with and try zero in on what is it that you need in your chain.
 

amrutmhatre90

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Location
Mumbai
Hi amrut

First of all congratulations on your Youtube Channel and best of luck for the journey ahead.
Thank you, it is just for fun and my journey. No thoughts for monetizing.

Thank you for the suggestion but if i go the power amp route i don't want to invest in dac and pre as of now. Ill be using my avr as pre+dac. And given that the speakers want amps which are 200+wpc will the pa suggested by you give them justice.
Also though AVRs power ratings are somewhat of a grey area but i guess they still push 110 watts 2 channel driven. So if i add a power amp pumping something lets say 140 watts. Will those 30 plus watts bring about any change in my listening experience?
So total watts, well ... it's a strange game. The first 20-50W is important for a good experience, in my experience.
This is exactly what I was going to say, the first watts and the quality of watts.

Regarding the experience with Crown

At the point of time my avr was a pretty basic one without preouts so i bought a yamaha wxc preamp cum streamer and hooked it up to crown xls 1502. Comparing my avr with that of the crown setup i liked my AVR sound much better. The bass was not rounded and sounded flat to me.
So cant say whether wxc or crown what ruined the experience.

To be honest Yamaha WXC-50 pre amp is crap! no office to people using it. But having used mere 5k FX audio Tube 03 did better wonders than the Yamaha costing 30k. The one I use is a NAD 165 Pre and it is on another level.
I too had the crown Paired with FX Audio tube-03 loved it but the DAC I had was crap that time, still enjoyed it.

I have been trying to listen Music on Pure Direct through my Denon x3700 and it sounds good paired with the DIY PA, and it is 110 watts 2ch.
Though not as amazing as the NAD & PA combo but enjoyable.
 

Akshit2111

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Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Messages
635
Points
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Location
New Delhi
You have a fairly good setup. The AVR is spec'd at 110Wpc in stereo.
Before going down speaker change route or adding components for stereo only, try the simple PA addition.
Both the above options introduce a costly churn.

I have tried the following in the past (pre sub woofer days):
- Marantz NR1605 + Outlaw Audio M2200 + KEFs
- Marantz NR1605 + Parasound 275v2 + KEFs

Outlaws are 200/300Wpc and Parasound is 90/150Wpc. Surprisingly, KEFs sounded better on Parasound.
At present the KEFs are driven by a 55W kit amp and sound really good. Sometimes the sub is turned on.
So total watts, well ... it's a strange game. The first 20-50W is important for a good experience, in my experience.

Cheers,
Raghu
So did you notice a fair bit of difference with the addition of PA.
I read that power amp might bring out much better instrument clarity but then are my ears trained enough to gauge the difference i dont know .
Also since music movies both are equally important for my experience i guess it would be better to go with a three channel power amp than 2 wat say. Might as well improve my front sound stage.
 

Akshit2111

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Messages
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Location
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The AVR is competent enough. I have the same one and frankly, it's a matter of preference whether you like the IAs or the SR6013. There are other components which will equally, if not more, matter for music playback. I suspect an amp may not be the solution, at least for the requisite budget.

If it's not too much trouble, feel free to Cart your speakers along. I have a variety of gear that you can try it with and try zero in on what is it that you need in your chain.
Really appreciate the help :)
Since you have variety of gear you feel the amp is good enough for a good music listening experience.
If the equipment is decent enough then i feel maybe the synergy in setup is somewhat missing.
 

raghupb

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So did you notice a fair bit of difference with the addition of PA.
I read that power amp might bring out much better instrument clarity but then are my ears trained enough to gauge the difference i dont know .
Also since music movies both are equally important for my experience i guess it would be better to go with a three channel power amp than 2 wat say. Might as well improve my front sound stage.
I have a dinky AVR (50Wpc). So yes it did make it better when I added a power amp for movie experience.
Since your AVR has multi channel preout, a 3-Ch pre may not be a bad idea either.
But first try just L/R in your rig, in your room and get convinced.
Time to use your charm and make local forum buddies!!

Frankly, since I had IA+PA before AVR came home, I've been biased towards this for music.
I evaluated AVR for music; it didn't sound as good as IA/separates. Maybe its the DAC or pre or I'm too anal.
To bring out the best in music, all components in the chain play a part.
In my case, it's been 6 years and counting since I acquired the KEFs.
Been adding or changing components slowly after careful listening/audition to get music right (as per my ear).
I think it's all there now. Or I have convinced myself, who knows :D

Cheers,
Raghu
 

Akshit2111

Active Member
Joined
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Messages
635
Points
43
Location
New Delhi
I have a dinky AVR (50Wpc). So yes it did make it better when I added a power amp for movie experience.
Since your AVR has multi channel preout, a 3-Ch pre may not be a bad idea either.
But first try just L/R in your rig, in your room and get convinced.
Time to use your charm and make local forum buddies!!

Frankly, since I had IA+PA before AVR came home, I've been biased towards this for music.
I evaluated AVR for music; it didn't sound as good as IA/separates. Maybe its the DAC or pre or I'm too anal.
To bring out the best in music, all components in the chain play a part.
In my case, it's been 6 years and counting since I acquired the KEFs.
Been adding or changing components slowly after careful listening/audition to get music right (as per my ear).
I think it's all there now. Or I have convinced myself, who knows :D

Cheers,
Raghu
Suppose if i go the PA route what power amp would you suggest given the budget you can recommend plus or minus here and there.
Also a good power amp is not supposed to add any flare to the audio being produced bit i would want something that can tame the bright highs.
Any experience on the emotivas or xtz or crown.
Which one would you choose?
 
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