AVR question...kind of long

[Zoo]

Hi guys, newbie here. Been lurking on the site since a couple of months soaking up info.

looking to set-up a HT/music setup with 50/50 of movies/songs.

I have bought a pair of Wharfdale Opus's 2.2 another FM/friend sold over here.
Heard them and loved them. Now deciding on what AVR to get has been consuming a majority of my time. have not been able to really sample any with my speakers but have narrowed down to either the yamaha rx-v675 or the yamaha a820. I'm leaning towards the A820.

I have a couple of questions on which I hope the experienced guys can shed some light.
1. I hooked up the wharfdales to an Telome amp I have already. Its claimed to be 100W RMS per channel. The speakers take till about 1/2 the volume to start making any decent sound. At 3/4 volume its loud, but not what I would expect. My question is would the yamaha avr @100watts/ch sound similar or is there a large difference in Telome RMS as compared to Yammy RMS??

2. since the wharfdales are rated at 250w and 90db sensitivity, I'm planning on bi-amping the extra rear channels to get more power. Question here is, would that work whilst playing stereo input say from an ipod or my phone or does bi-amping only work in surround sound like in movies etc?

Thanks for any answers you might have!

 

[Zoo]

Bump....any ideas?

 

[jagdish_p]

Since you already own a 100 w amp if you want to upgrade you should be looking at 159 w plus- especially since your speakers are rated 250 w.

I do not see any problem in running your amp at 50 to 75 % volume setting.

Bi Amping using the same AVR s rear channels really does not add any additional power. AVR s are designed on the assumption that all channels do not out putthe peak power at the same time and hence share a common supply.

 

[ghatgepatil]

Wharf Opus 2.2 is one of their top-of-the-line offerings. Do not reduce their status by mating them to AVRs. Try saving some money and procure a hi-end dedicated integrated amp. Have patience. Many Forums come up with decent offerings off and on. In the meantime, read up the posts hereto get ideas and knowledge.

Procure something mid-fi for your movies. Yes, I mean a different set-up.

 

[Naturelover]

How about the Anthem MRX 500 that's just come on sale?
http://www.hifivision.com/sale-owner/48725-anthem-mrx-500-a.html

 

[Zoo]

@jagdish...I thought the new av receivers used discrete amps for the different channels? Am I wrong? From what i have read bi-amping does make a difference as opposed to bi-wiring(not trying to start a war here!!) And continous running at 75% would not affect the amp?

@ghatgepatil...I'm open to having a separate amp for the wharfs but how would I wire it so that I can use them as fronts in a 5.1 and in a stereo environment without doing a lot of re-wiring everytime?

@naturelover....the anthem mrx500 is also rated at 75w/ch with all 5 channels driven, would that be enough.

Any suggestions for an amp for the wharfdales,(with budgetary values please)

thanks everyone.

 

[Deleted member 45006]

@jagdish...I thought the new av receivers used discrete amps for the different channels? Am I wrong? From what i have read bi-amping does make a difference as opposed to bi-wiring(not trying to start a war here!!) And continous running at 75% would not affect the amp?



@ghatgepatil...I'm open to having a separate amp for the wharfs but how would I wire it so that I can use them as fronts in a 5.1 and in a stereo environment without doing a lot of re-wiring everytime?



@naturelover....the anthem mrx500 is also rated at 75w/ch with all 5 channels driven, would that be enough.



Any suggestions for an amp for the wharfdales,(with budgetary values please)



thanks everyone.

Avrs share the same power supply. That's what he meant. Two amps on a 10 A power supply will be better than 5 amplifiers on the same. So even though they are discrete they will be weak when driven with more speakers. But it again depends upon the AVR. Some high end AVRS are better than mid range stereo amps. But at fixed budget point, the general trend is : stereo amps outperform AVRS or the same budget

 

[marsilians]

...I have a couple of questions on which I hope the experienced guys can shed some light.
1. I hooked up the wharfdales to an Telome amp I have already. Its claimed to be 100W RMS per channel. The speakers take till about 1/2 the volume to start making any decent sound. At 3/4 volume its loud, but not what I would expect. My question is would the yamaha avr @100watts/ch sound similar or is there a large difference in Telome RMS as compared to Yammy RMS??

2. since the wharfdales are rated at 250w and 90db sensitivity, I'm planning on bi-amping the extra rear channels to get more power. Question here is, would that work whilst playing stereo input say from an ipod or my phone or does bi-amping only work in surround sound like in movies etc?

Thanks for any answers you might have!

For 1. Dont get too fixated on the RMS power ratings as these are mostly put down from a marketing standpoint (if you remember the old PMPO ratings for stereos, its analogical that). This has been discussed a fair bit so do a search on the forum. Typically your power that will be driving your speakers is anywhere between 40-60% of the rated power. So what you are experiencing is "normal" unfortunately.

2. for bi-amping and based on what you ahve put down, i would strongly suggest you to readup or speak to people if you have access to them.

One of the things a stronger amplifier (AVR or stereo or integrated or standalone) woudl do is bring out details of the sound even at low volumes. Again this depends on the quality of your sources but that is a separate discussion that has lots of feedback on the forum.

 

[Zoo]

Thanks Alby and Marsilians.

 

[Naturelover]

Go through this thread
http://www.hifivision.com/surround-amplifiers-receivers/47738-price-anthem-receivers.html
The Indian price of the MRX500 is 1.4 lacs. You're getting an almost new set for half of that which is the price of a new Yamaha A820.

Companies like Anthem give their power ratings quite conservatively. Anthem 75W would probably be better than Yamaha/Denon etc 100W.
Go through reviews and user comments on other forums.

I would have taken it by now had I not just bought a new AVR.

 

[jagdish_p]

@jagdish...I thought the new av receivers used discrete amps for the different channels? Am I wrong? From what i have read bi-amping does make a difference as opposed to bi-wiring(not trying to start a war here!!) And continous running at 75% would not affect the amp?
.

Look at the overall power / Ampere rating of the AVR - It does not add up to the sum of all 7 Channels at rated Max. So my guess is that they have some shared supply components.

Yes I agree with you that bi - amping makes a difference as opposed to bi-wiring. The caveat is that the Amps should be discrete.

 

[Zoo]

Thanks everyone. How would a separate amp for the 2 fronts be incorporated into a 5.1 system? Pre-outs from the avr to the amp and then to the fronts and center and rear through the avr?

 

[jagdish_p]

Thanks everyone. How would a separate amp for the 2 fronts be incorporated into a 5.1 system? Pre-outs from the avr to the amp and then to the fronts and center and rear through the avr?

That's correct. You will have to fix the amp volume gain at a certain level - say 12 o clock and run the AVR's calibration system.

Subsequently during play back ensure that your amp is set at 12 o clock and control volume through AVR only.

 

[rbalagopalan]

@naturelover....the anthem mrx500 is also rated at 75w/ch with all 5 channels driven, would that be enough. thanks everyone.

Companies like Anthem give their power ratings quite conservatively. Anthem 75W would probably be better than Yamaha/Denon etc 100W.
Go through reviews and user comments on other forums.

Hello Zoo, if you had followed my other threads and the for sale thread you would have got it clarified. Anthem's rating is true RMS. In fact I had connected it once as receiver to my mammoth's - B&Ws and it could handle them comfortably.

@Naturelover - Yes I concur your point. I read a case study some time back with regard to actual out put test result by various AVRs where in All mid & lower segments have proved to deliver only 40-50% of the spec sheet. I don't want to spell the brands and nos. here with out that link. Let me try googling it or even if any one else can locate it just post the link here.

Thanks
R. Balagopalan.

 

[subhash]

would suggest a seperate pre & power amp combo for the opus for music

 

[Zoo]

This thing is beginning to look like its gonna get expensive:lol::lol:

 

[rbalagopalan]

This thing is beginning to look like its gonna get expensive:lol::lol:

Yes come on man join the club :clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[manoj.p]

This thing is beginning to look like its gonna get expensive:lol::lol:

Well, it doesn't have to be expensive. Since you are doing a 5.1 setup, you will need an AVR anyways. I think you should start auditioning and choose an AVR which is good quality and the one that you like. Get an AVR which has pre-outs. After you buy, use it for some time and see if it meets the needs as far as power. You will be surprise how little power is needed to drive the speakers and most likely, that AVR will meet the need. If it doesn't, then you can always buy a 2 channel amp and connect through the pre-outs of the avr.

A good quality AVR combined with some good room correction can make a huge difference compared to the power wattage of different amps. Power wattage is not so much of a big deal once you are beyond 75w/channel, unless the speakers are known to be as inefficient.

 

[Zoo]

Well, it doesn't have to be expensive.

Thanks Manoj. I like your line of thought, probably go along with that idea. But I'm leaning towards buying an avr with 7 channels, just in case I need the extra 2 for bi-amping.

People in the know, would appreciate if you can tell me whether a suitable amp can be purchased in the difference of price between a 5.1 and 7.1 avr?