Blumenhofer vs Harbeth which to get?

[vineetrad]

I have just been permitted to add a stereo setup to the living room in addition to the existing HT setup.

Room size is 11 ft x 20 ft.

I already have the P3ESR in my small office/listening room paired with a JL Audio sub. Works well for near field. I like the Harbeth sound so was considering the older SHL5 which I can pick up from a relative who is looking to upgrade. The other thought is to go a different direction with horns - a pair of Blumenhofer, since I am in Bangalore. Not sure which specific model, suggestions are welcome. I plan to see if I can audition them at Jochen's place later - right now not to keen to venture out as Covid is peaking in Bangalore.

I know several FMs here have either had both or heard both brands. The Blumenhofer piqued my interest since a few folks here have moved on from Harbeths to the Blumenhofer and seem quite happy. This also opens up SET tube amps as a viable option due to the high sensitivity of the horns which is an added attraction. If I go with the SHL5 I will likely run a Hegel or an AP Thyiaga.

If you can share your experiences it would be much appreciated. What does one gain with the Blumenhofer vs the Harbeth and other than the superb midrange what is lost if I don't pick up the SHL5?

I will be retaining the P3ESR so it's not there wont be a Harbeth in the house for that midrange fix

The only other brand I am considering in Spendor (possibly the A7 or a classic model ) since I like the Spendor house sound also (I do not like the newer D series)

 

[raghupb]

I have just been permitted to add a stereo setup to the living room in addition to the existing HT setup.

Room size is 11 ft x 20 ft.

I already have the P3ESR in my small office/listening room paired with a JL Audio sub. Works well for near field. I like the Harbeth sound so was considering the older SHL5 which I can pick up from a relative who is looking to upgrade. The other thought is to go a different direction with horns - a pair of Blumenhofer, since I am in Bangalore. Not sure which specific model, suggestions are welcome. I plan to see if I can audition them at Jochen's place later - right now not to keen to venture out as Covid is peaking in Bangalore.

I know several FMs here have either had both or heard both brands. The Blumenhofer piqued my interest since a few folks here have moved on from Harbeths to the Blumenhofer and seem quite happy. This also opens up SET tube amps as a viable option due to the high sensitivity of the horns which is an added attraction. If I go with the SHL5 I will likely run a Hegel or an AP Thyiaga.

If you can share your experiences it would be much appreciated. What does one gain with the Blumenhofer vs the Harbeth and other than the superb midrange what is lost if I don't pick up the SHL5?

I will be retaining the P3ESR so it's not there wont be a Harbeth in the house for that midrange fix

The only other brand I am considering in Spendor (possibly the A7 or a classic model ) since I like the Spendor house sound also (I do not like the newer D series)

Ping @eddie_fox (local FM)
He used to have Harbeth SHL5/+ and moved to Blumenhofer
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[jai1611]

Note I am a recent Harbeth owner so this perspective is biased

Harbeth: warm, natural presentation. Works well with a range of amps. In the lineup, my favourite is the Compact 7 (prefer those over the SHL 5)

Blumenhofer: More neutral presentation. The horns are very much a hear and decide thing. I've heard the Fun 13 and Fun 17. Between the two, I prefer the smaller 13 but heard them at different times so confidence low. The pairing with Trigon is too dry / thin to my ears. They do need careful matching to get tone right (the experience with the Einstein hybrid was a big change). Another speaker with similar tonal characteristics but better resolution, staging is the PMC lineup. Would also meet the tube friendly criteria. When I bought the PMC 25.24 speakers two years back, the Fun 13 was the backup choice. A step down in performance but a bigger step down in price as well.

Spendor: the 3/1 is there for demo at Audio Lounge. A step below the Harbeth 7s but that may just be due to the size difference / setup. Also got to hear the A7 but that has a very conventional presentation; didn't listen to it long enough to be able to say anything beyond that.

Last I checked, Jochen was away in Germany so the visit there would anyway have to wait.

 

[vineetrad]

Ping @eddie_fox (local FM)
He used to have Harbeth SHL5/+ and moved to Blumenhofer
Cheers,
Raghu

Yes he's my first planned port of call so to speak lol. I will be giving him a call soon to get his perspective.

Note I am a recent Harbeth owner so this perspective is biased

Harbeth: warm, natural presentation. Works well with a range of amps. In the lineup, my favourite is the Compact 7 (prefer those over the SHL 5)

Blumenhofer: More neutral presentation. The horns are very much a hear and decide thing. I've heard the Fun 13 and Fun 17. Between the two, I prefer the smaller 13 but heard them at different times so confidence low. The pairing with Trigon is too dry / thin to my ears. They do need careful matching to get tone right (the experience with the Einstein hybrid was a big change). Another speaker with similar tonal characteristics but better resolution, staging is the PMC lineup. Would also meet the tube friendly criteria. When I bought the PMC 25.24 speakers two years back, the Fun 13 was the backup choice. A step down in performance but a bigger step down in price as well.

Spendor: the 3/1 is there for demo at Audio Lounge. A step below the Harbeth 7s but that may just be due to the size difference / setup. Also got to hear the A7 but that has a very conventional presentation; didn't listen to it long enough to be able to say anything beyond that.

Last I checked, Jochen was away in Germany so the visit there would anyway have to wait.

Thank you for the detailed inputs Jai. Very, very useful.

I find it interesting that you say the 7s (which from memory are the warmest of all) are your favourite. Normally I see the M30, M40 as the most common favourites mentioned from the Harbeth lineup. Of course we must factor personal taste in sound, music choice, pairing with equipment and most importantly the room size and acoustics. In my case, I was clear I had to pick the P3ESR for my very small office room. With hardly any space from the wall I knew I needed to go sealed.

Thank you for your thoughts on the Blumenhofers. I am clear that I will be pairing them with a SET tube amp not with SS if I get them. I would have thought the horns would give the Blumenhofer different dynamics vs something like the PMC Twenty line, ATC or ProAC. From your comparison against your PMC would it be right to conclude that the Blumenhofer Fun 13 has a good price / performance ratio (from what I understand Indian pricing is quite competitive) ? I didn't realize Jochen isn't in Bangalore right now, thanks for the heads-up. I have heard the Twenty5.21 bookshelves, are the 5.24 similar sounding?

Yes, I prefer the classic Spendor range. I have not heard the A range. I was told it is closer to the classic sound vs the D that are voiced more analytical and hi-fi and the Spendor richness is missing a bit. From what you say it seems to present different from the classic and I think I probably should hear an A model and see if I like the sound.

 

[CircleGame]

I have the Blumenhofer Big Fun 17 paired with a Hegel H160 and it's brilliant. I play only vinyl records now. A big part of my collection is 70s and 80s Rock and I listen to Jazz and World Music too. Unfortunately the Big Fun 17 is not made anymore, so you'll have to think of the Tempesta series. You can call me if you have any questions.

 

[jai1611]

Thank you for the detailed inputs Jai. Very, very useful.

I find it interesting that you say the 7s (which from memory are the warmest of all) are your favourite. Normally I see the M30, M40 as the most common favourites mentioned from the Harbeth lineup. Of course we must factor personal taste in sound, music choice, pairing with equipment and most importantly the room size and acoustics. In my case, I was clear I had to pick the P3ESR for my very small office room. With hardly any space from the wall I knew I needed to go sealed.

Thank you for your thoughts on the Blumenhofers. I am clear that I will be pairing them with a SET tube amp not with SS if I get them. I would have thought the horns would give the Blumenhofer different dynamics vs something like the PMC Twenty line, ATC or ProAC. From your comparison against your PMC would it be right to conclude that the Blumenhofer Fun 13 has a good price / performance ratio (from what I understand Indian pricing is quite competitive) ? I didn't realize Jochen isn't in Bangalore right now, thanks for the heads-up. I have heard the Twenty5.21 bookshelves, are the 5.24 similar sounding?

Yes, I prefer the classic Spendor range. I have not heard the A range. I was told it is closer to the classic sound vs the D that are voiced more analytical and hi-fi and the Spendor richness is missing a bit. From what you say it seems to present different from the classic and I think I probably should hear an A model and see if I like the sound.

On Harbeth: I've not heard the 40.2. Among the others, I like the Compact 7s the best. Youre right about them being a bit warmer than the 30 lineup

On Blumenhofer/PMC: the horn dynamic is different but would be much more palpable with a horn midrange/treble, which the Fun series doesn't have. The PMC bass presentation is also a bit different due to the transmission line. Neither of them sound like a ported / bass reflex speaker. My pricing comparison is not current. At the time I was looking, Jochen was clearing a demo Fun 13 at a juicy price so price/performance was definitely in favour. I don't know what current lists are like for either brand. I haven't heard the other models in the PMC lineup so no comment there. I've heard the PMCs with a 40w push-pull amp and they did quite well; not sure if they are as SET friendly as the Blumenhofers.

On Spendor: my (second hand) understanding is that there are inconsistencies within the Spendor classic lineup as well so it may well be that the A7 is similar to some other models in the lineup.

One additional thing for you to consider: if your priority is a SET amp, I suspect neither Harbeth nor Spendor would be good options. If committed to the SET route, replace them with Rethm on your audition list (particularly the Bhaava / Aarka)

 

[vineetrad]

Quick update. Plan to audition the Blumenhofer models once Jochen is back. Also considering PMC 25 series , Harbeth 30.2, Spendor classic, Acoustic Portrait (once their new Thyiaga tubs preamp version is ready) and going in a different direction - Genelec 8050. Rethms are off the table for now as I cannot audition them and don't want to buy at these price points without hearing the speakers.

 

[square_wave]

I have plenty of experience with both the line-ups. Harbeths mostly with friends and the big fun 17 at my home. I must say that preference will mostly be based on personal goals with regards to the sound.

Both speaker lineups are slightly on the warmer side. The good warmth that you hear at a live venue while staying on the neutral side of things ! There is a certain dynamic punch in the upper midrange, presence and high regions with the blumenhofer due to the horn loading. I like that. It is pretty much in-line with the sound you hear at a live venue. The horn design is very evolved so you get all the benefits of horns without the issues associated with them.

Magic is possible with both the brands. I have found blumenhofers to sound best with tubes or hybrid amps. They also sound very good with good solid state amps. Going with low end solid state amps with Blumenhofer is a bad idea. The difference is pretty big when you make that amp change. Harbeths may be more flexible that way.

Do listen yourself and take a call. While doing the auditions, try and do it with the amp you will eventually use.

 

[vineetrad]

Thank you to all of you who have responded on this thread and in PMs. I heard the Spendors (A4, A7 and
Classic 3/1) at Audio Lounge. They were ok (Classic was the best by far) and were nice enough but did not recreate the Harbeth magic for me. Surprisingly I found the bass lacking which is not what I remember of Spendors from the past. It was a thinner sound than Harbeth but that I expected. Maybe the bass issue was the room.

I also heard Genelecs at their showroom. I am very familiar with their higher end models 8351 and 8341 which use GLM for room correction. Was not familiar with their 80xx entry range so wanted to audition. Both ranges were quite good. They have a very different sound though to Harbeths or Spendors. I felt Genelecs were more suited to EDM, rock, hip hop, pop unlike Harbeths which I would prefer any day for acoustic, folk, classical, indie, etc. The 8xx1 series of course was significantly better than the 80xx series due to room correction and the 3 way concentric drivers. The top end of the 80xx is a bit bright in an undamped room which is expected. You can tailor to some extent with the treble dipswitches.

 

[vineetrad]

Thank you to all those who relied on this thread and in PMs. Chatted with Jochen. A very gentleman bit he is still in Germany and it looks like it will take some time to get to hear a Blumenhofer

 

[vineetrad]

Final update.

Consolidated and updated list of speakers/brands auditioned at dealers, friends, FMs:
Harbeth entire line (at various points of time)
Spendor Classic and A series (at various points of time)
PMC 25 series
ATC SCM series
Dynaudio Special 40
KEF Ref series
Tannoy Turnberry
Klipsch Forte

Have earlier tried Acoustic Portrait, Quad. Not recently.

I have bought Genelecs. Please note this is my completely subjective assessment and the only way to select the right speakers for YOUR needs is to audition yourself, with your music and equipment and with YOUR taste and goals in mind. Preferably in your room but this may not always be possible.

Sound wise I preferred the Genelecs (after proper calibration) to everything except the Harbeth. I would say both are great but with very different strengths. The Genelecs image better, are significantly more flat, dynamic, and have a lot more detail than the Harbeth. The midrange on the Harbeth is very pleasurable and is something special for less critical listening. The Genelecs' perfect synergy with the builtin amps, all the other usual advantages of true actives, room correction and the compact size, lack of wires and multiple boxes, etc were added bonuses.

With both my Harbeth and Genelec systems I have two different but pleasurable musical experiences. I'm done for now.

Oh, and they measure better than most hifi speakers. This for instance are the measurements for the 8030, the 3rd smallest model in their analog series.

Genelec 8030C Studio Monitor Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the powered Genelec 8030C Professional Monitor (speaker). It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $700 each. The 8030C has the same look of Genelec speakers of the last decade or so: To me it looks more "cute" than serious piece of gear...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[ktks1]

Congrats on the purchase!