Bollywood first or second press vinyls?

prem

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As I keep improving my phono stage, I am beginning to prefer the second presses to the original Angel ones. The later presses clearly are more open sounding. The Angels sound a bit thick and compressed in comparison.

The Angels are a bit more richer sounding but not as dynamic as the second presses.

In my mind, the myth that Angels always sound better than second Odeon or HMV label presses has been shattered.
 
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bhaskarcan

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As I keep improving my phono stage, I am beginning to prefer the second presses to the original Angel ones. The later presses clearly are more open sounding. The Angels sound a bit thick and compressed in comparison.

The Angels are a bit more richer sounding but not as dynamic as the second presses.

In my mind, the myth that Angels always sound better than second Odeon or HMV label presses has been shattered.
Hi Prem,
What have you done?
The Angel ones are already very hard for the pocket and it will remain so due to their rarity quotient.
With your revelation, you have promoted the later pressings to a pedestal as high as Angel, sound wise.
Now people will start looking those "better sounding 2nd pressings" and the vendors will have another gala time. :)
Just joking.
Regards
Bhaskar
 

prem

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Bhaskarcan, on a separate note, I think you too preferred later presses of Indian classical records to the first presses
 

Naturelover

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The later presses clearly are more open sounding. The Angels sound a bit thick and compressed in comparison.

The Angels are ... not as dynamic as the second presses.

Any guesses on the reasons???

Further to that, I think you mostly preferred the Angels with the EMT built-in phono.
So, what has happened to make you change your prefernece?
How much does the phono contribute to it?

Naturelover, with the EMT phono I did like the Angels better. EMT is a 70s SS phono. What I have now is a modern tube phono. Suppposedly it’s state of the art. Also I guess bandwidth of modern phonos is higher. It’s the only reason i can think of.

Also when speaking to people who have really really high end vinyl set ups, they all seem to prefer the 140 g vinyl to the 180 and 200 g vinyl. The second presses are all 140 g. The first presses are usually much thicker. So maybe that is also coming into play.

Similar story here. And my city has hardly any DIYers and serious / passionate lovers, I know of. Few ones I know are more impressed by big brand names even before they actually listen to a setup and I have hardly any brands and / or they under wraps…. (Not playing)

My setup is 90% DIYed (it was 100% including R2R DAC earlier and now ECDesigns PDR makes it 90%) , so no brand names to showcase to anyone.

Will be awaiting impressions / details on your upcoming rendezvous….
Imo, subjective listening is very personal and judged by a listener in just 2 minutes. You like it or hate it. Nothing inbetween. Each person listen very differently. I can give examples of speakers built by me. Though i don't like them all myself, my customers like them very very much.

Btw, my passive DAC with LPF is still in prototype stage as I have used only available stock 5% carbon resistors for the impedance matching network. I shall be ordering precision thin film resistors next week with exact value resistance. Currently I/V conversion tolerance is 17% due to this mis- match.
 

Hari Iyer

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I have couple of Angle records which are thick. They sound nice, but the thinner polydor are also equally good. For me it boils down to master
 

souravin

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There is another school of thought - Ring Odeons sound better than Angel sibling for the same sound track. As Odeons were supposedly made for export NOT the Angel labels. Prem I assume you mean the Plain Odeon late 1970 pressings.
 

[email protected]

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The Angels in excellent condition from fifties and sixties are unobtainium, and the ring Odeons , plain Odeons , Red Dogs and plain dogs are all in mono when the world had switched over to stereo in the seventies alongwith ERS ruining several milestone soundtracks permanently. Not that the monos don’t sound good , but stereo would have been way better, as not many can afford pure mono carts. When it comes to vintage Bollywood the options are so restricted by all these that it’s redundant to prefer one pressing over the other.
 
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Hiten

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Offtopic :
No doubt vinyl has become popular.

But here are things in perspective in USA (probably the largest market.)

Vinyl record units sold ~ 350 million* -- 1977 -- USA Population 220 million
Vinyl record units sold ~ 41 million* -- 2021 -- USA Population 332 million

Source
* Recording Industry association of america
* Statistica.com

Regards
 

bhaskarcan

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The Angels in excellent condition from fifties and sixties are unobtainium, and the ring Odeons , plain Odeons , Red Dogs and plain dogs are all in mono when the world had switched over to stereo in the seventies alongwith ERS ruining several milestone soundtracks permanently. Not that the monos don’t sound good , but stereo would have been way better, as not many can afford pure mono carts. When it comes to vintage Bollywood the options are so restricted by all these that it’s redundant to prefer one pressing over the other.
AFAIK, post 1967 all the records cut in India have "stereo grooves". Though the final reproduction maybe in mono, as maybe the case.
Once the Stereo cutting lathe was installed by Gramophone Co. the mono lathes were discarded. Polydor started with stereo lathe from the beginning.
Going by this information, one doesn't strictly need to have a mono cartridge to play those post 1967 cut mono records, for best sound.

Regards
 

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AFAIK, post 1967 all the records cut in India have "stereo grooves". Though the final reproduction maybe in mono, as maybe the case.
Once the Stereo cutting lathe was installed by Gramophone Co. the mono lathes were discarded. Polydor started with stereo lathe from the beginning.
Going by this information, one doesn't strictly need to have a mono cartridge to play those post 1967 cut mono records, for best sound.

Regards
I wasn’t aware of this Bhaskarda. This is very helpful, as most of my Hindi records are post late sixties onwards only. Much thanks 😊
 

prem

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Thanks Bhaskarcan. That probably explains why the thinner second presses sound more dynamic to my ears. Most Angel first presses are thicker.
 

bhaskarcan

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Thanks Bhaskarcan. That probably explains why the thinner second presses sound more dynamic to my ears. Most Angel first presses are thicker.
Yes Prem. The argument has at least some logic behind it, which may or may not be the whole truth. At least it shows us some light in the face of stronger recommendation for thickest possible records.
Another example we missed to discuss is the CBS records of Indian Music, specially film music of 80's. "Sadma" being the best sounding example. These CBS records are very thin and quite flexible. We always wondered how they sounded so good even after being so thin.

Regards
 

prem

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Bhaskarcan, in fact it’s the same with English records too. I bought a few records from Better Records who claim they offer the best sounding pressings of a title. The few pressings I bought from them were all thin. I mean they were like 140g.

Even with titles like Anar Prem and Hare Rama Hare Krishna, the later Odeon presses sound better to me as compared to the first press Ring Odeons.
 

Hari Iyer

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Yes Prem. The argument has at least some logic behind it, which may or may not be the whole truth. At least it shows us some light in the face of stronger recommendation for thickest possible records.
Another example we missed to discuss is the CBS records of Indian Music, specially film music of 80's. "Sadma" being the best sounding example. These CBS records are very thin and quite flexible. We always wondered how they sounded so good even after being so thin.

Regards
I have similar experience with CBS records. My best sounding records in my collection is always a CBS .
 
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