bose and its bad rep

[koushik]

Which means it is better right... more people appreciate it. The Beatles are rated No. 1 only because they sold more records than anybody else. Otherwise any band from The Eagles, The Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd to Led Zeppelin could lay claim to be the best.

Yea if you think, so be it. Bollywood music is better than classical music
But would like to compare the sell and popularity of the bollywood album, by challenging them not to advertise in TV, Radio, Newspaper, magazines, wall poster and let's see the sale numbers
Do you see any ad of such of kinds on any media for classical music? No - because their target is CLASS not MASS.

 

[koushik]

I am taking someone's help to explain the reason.

by intellexual.

Popularity. Popularity of a name brand doesn't equate to quality. Bose mystique feeds off of its well-targeted audience: the ignorant, ill-informed, mass-market consumers who search for simplified hifi audio solutions in "all-in-one" chain stores such as Walmart, Best Buy, Sam's Club, Price Costco, Sears, Montgomery Wards, etc. A Bose speaker, when put up against the in-store competition of Technics, Cerwin Vega, Pioneer, Kenwood, and Sony speakers, may indeed sound like a better buy. Since these Japanese mega-icons are established corporate monsters, the buyer will feel confident knowing that he or she made a thorough comparison with other household brand names.

A simple way to test this theory is to see just how familiar a Bose owner is with the real industry leading brands, like Klipsch, Paradigm, Definitive Technology, and B&W. "What's that? I've never heard of that no-name brand."

 

[musicbee]

But would like to compare the sell and popularity of the bollywood album, by challenging them not to advertise in TV, Radio, Newspaper, magazines, wall poster and let's see the sale numbers
Do you see any ad of such of kinds on any media for classical music? No - because their target is CLASS not MASS.

But that's precisely my point with regards to B&W too. They are overpriced and CANNOT sell without their ads. So why fault only Bose?

Yea if you think, so be it. Bollywood music is better than classical music

Lets not even go there buddy. I like my music, you like yours. So leave it at that.

I really don't want to get into a p**** match on who has better taste or knowledge in music.

 

[musicbee]

I am taking someone's help to explain the reason.

Popularity. Popularity of a name brand doesn't equate to quality. Bose mystique feeds off of its well-targeted audience: the ignorant, ill-informed, mass-market consumers who search for simplified hifi audio solutions in "all-in-one" chain stores such as Walmart, Best Buy, Sam's Club, Price Costco, Sears, Montgomery Wards, etc. A Bose speaker, when put up against the in-store competition of Technics, Cerwin Vega, Pioneer, Kenwood, and Sony speakers, may indeed sound like a better buy. Since these Japanese mega-icons are established corporate monsters, the buyer will feel confident knowing that he or she made a thorough comparison with other household brand names.

A simple way to test this theory is to see just how familiar a Bose owner is with the real industry leading brands, like Klipsch, Paradigm, Definitive Technology, and B&W. "What's that? I've never heard of that no-name brand."

by intellexual.

By your own admission people who don't know Klipsch, Paradigm, Definitive Technology, and B&W are ignorant, low class, mass or whatever else you want to label them.

Well I've heard the Spatial Computer (many have not auditioned it or even know what it is). I've also auditioned niche products like Magico & Tidal which again are not known to many. How many B&W owners have heard these? Does that mean I'm better than the rest in your own words and even better than the B&W owners? That's your line of reasoning here right?

Like I said I don't want to get into a p*** contest with you or anyone else here... so just let's lay off the I know better/I have heard better attitude ok.

 

[koushik]

I never knew that you like bollywood music and my choice of music is not really the Indian classical. So it wasn't anything personal.

 

[musicbee]

I never knew that you like bollywood music and my choice of music is not really the Indian classical. So it wasn't anything personal.

Actually I don't listen to any Hindi music... not classical nor Bollywood.

Anyways my apologies. No offense meant.

 

[dillihifi]

This conversation reminds me again of automobiles. There are several brands which the mass buyer may not be aware of and maybe considers the merc as the ultimate car. Chill guys everything is subjective

 

[nandac]

>The Beatles are rated No. 1 only because they sold more records than anybody else. >Otherwise any band from The Eagles, The Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd to Led Zeppelin >could lay claim to be the best.

pink floyd, led zep, eagles are in the same league as the beatles? ok.

 

[nandac]

guys, my primary intention for starting this thread is to get some genuine feedback from audiophiles who have heard bose - especially the direct reflecting/acoustimass stereo system - because i felt this system in its fundamental approach represented a genuine technological innovation different from other standard stereo products.

but i feel this thread is kind of degenerating to something else. appreciate it if we could keep the focus on the basic question. thanks.

 

[nandac]

> have seen systems far more expensive but unfortunately with all the hassles of an >amp and connectivity, some of these just don't sound convincing

this is a very important point for multiple reasons :

1. audiophiles spend so much time and effort and money on synergy, cables, interconnects etc. so to have a system which bypasses all this (because bose provides its own speaker cables etc), must be riling at some level. especially so when somebody boasts about that incredible sounding music system (bose) they have without a clue about the dynamics of audiophilia.

2. the average listener would be scandalized to spend 200 to 300 dollars (or 10 to 15k inr) on cables/interconnects etc. when i first bought my b&w 805 in the usa, i was stunned at the prices quoted for such cables because i had no idea about these. with bose there are no such issues.

3. even a top notch speaker without the right pairing of amp (synergy) and cables/interconnects, could sound awful. again no such issues with bose which will sound 'good' right out of the box.

so one important reason why audiophiles don't like bose or why bose is attractive to some customers (who are not so serious about audiophilia, but still would desire 'good' sound).

 

[milestoneseeker]

@nandac, as you would have figured out by now, there is no easy (and single) answer to your Bose question. As per me, the easiest way to classify Bose is to look at it as system which produces beautiful music to an slight "untrained" ear and is premium enough to be an object of desire. Please note that I differentiate between an untrained ear and an ignorant imbecile.

I believe people have wished for a Bose at different stages of their audiophile cycle but none have wished for it in the relatively later stages. The more you understand "your" music, the more fun it is to gravitate towards a component hi-fi than a Bose setup.

If you are only keen to understand how it technically produces the music (which I believe you are not), a wiki will go a long way

 

[nandac]

>Please note that I differentiate between an untrained ear and an ignorant imbecile.




>If you are only keen to understand how it technically produces the music (which I >believe you are not), a wiki will go a long way

to an extent i am fascinated by the technology as well - that somebody would go against the norm and be so successful (commercially) at it (and without a certain level of capability nobody can be that successful).

so even as i feel that bose doesn't deserve its god almighty rep (amongst average listeners), likewise it doesn't deserve the harsh criticism directed against it by the audiophile community. as some indian some 2500 years back rightly pointed out "the truth is almost always in the middle".

 

[hemantwaghe]

BTW - just offtrack - when I first saw the thread I read "boss and its bad rape!!" - shocked how this title is passed - I opened the thread and realised it is "regular" Bose beating thread!!hyeah:hyeah:hyeah:

> "the truth is almost always in the middle".

I hope this is not any double meaning statement!!

 

[vikoma]

With the kind of market access Bose has, one would assume that they can easily create a audiophile sounding and also cheap system for consumer use. Why are they not taking that route?

.. The assumption being that the cost of good speakers is in its design and not in the materials per-se; volumes should pay off for the design and reduce the costs.

For that matter, is anyone aware of any high-end bose systems that really sound good?

 

[square_wave]

guys, my primary intention for starting this thread is to get some genuine feedback from audiophiles who have heard bose - especially the direct reflecting/acoustimass stereo system - because i felt this system in its fundamental approach represented a genuine technological innovation different from other standard stereo products.

but i feel this thread is kind of degenerating to something else. appreciate it if we could keep the focus on the basic question. thanks.

To answer your question directly.

I have owned two bose speakers in the past. Their best models. During the days when they used to make some decent stuff. I sold them off and bought a wharfedale 8.4 eight years back. I have umpteen friends who use many of their lifestyle products. A few observations:

1. They are better than the regular sony, pioneer and kenwoods. The classic models from the aforementioned brands will of course sound superior to bose.

2. They measure pretty poor. They are not accurate at all. Bad parts. There is nothing subjective here. I have some sound engineer friends. Bose products cause much laughter in their circles.

3. They specialise in psycho acoustics. A few caveats though. If you play a bose speaker to a critical audiophile or sound engineer, they will not be impressed or amused since the psycho acoustics which bose deals with is of a different type. They specialise in identifying what the non critical mass market like to hear. This demographic forms a large percentage of the market. Then they design the speakers accordingly. If you play a Stradivarius violin through their life style product, the violin will sound like its digital version coming out of a cheap casio keyboard. Of course it will sound sharp and bright which is what many people want to hear. This is the reason why you will never find a bose speaker in the home of an audiophile or serious listener unless it is for non-critical applications.

4. If the application is pop / filmi music and if one is a casual listener and convenience factor is critical, bose is the way to go.

 

[nandac]

>They specialise in identifying what the non critical mass market like to hear

audiophiles are vulcans with those special pointy ears?

i remember what my first guitar teacher told me : whatever you play listen to it - if it sounds good to you, it will sound good to others as well.

 

[milestoneseeker]

With the kind of market access Bose has, one would assume that they can easily create a audiophile sounding and also cheap system for consumer use. Why are they not taking that route?

.. The assumption being that the cost of good speakers is in its design and not in the materials per-se; volumes should pay off for the design and reduce the costs.

For that matter, is anyone aware of any high-end bose systems that really sound good?

The ability to create and hold on to a premium, niche brand equity is far more rewarding for long term business than just creating the volumes at a reduced price. In a tough economy, the only folks who do not cut down (drastically) on their spending are the 1% percentile (in the current US terminology). You would want to make sure that your brand has these people's favor. Hence ... Bose does not do what you speak of

 

[Nikhil]

Bose has moved more to "premium" consumer electronics i.e. the company is being run by corporate honchos out to squeeze all they can from a once venerable brand. The company is no longer the outfit it was under Dr Bose. Period.

However there are some good products. Their noise canceling headphones are still very good. The rest of their products are decent but it's more or less the same Accoustimass (Subwoofer + Satellite) concept in different shapes and sizes. Quality is above consumer electronics levels but you can easily do better for the money. The Bose TV and Wave Radio are again clever products which are good but as you get more educated in what's available in audio you find that there's better stuff out there.

 

[2chFreak]

Bose has moved more to "premium" consumer electronics i.e. the company is being run by corporate honchos out to squeeze all they can from a once venerable brand. The company is no longer the outfit it was under Dr Bose. Period.

+1 .. :thumbsup: 100% in agreement

 

[apk]

I think that there are two types of audiophiles....

1. Those who grew up with good quality components (as in hi-fi) at home or who have had a chance to listen to good hi-fi systems in the early years of their hi-fi journey.
2. Those who grew up without access/exposure to true hi-fi components and ended up thinking that "Bose" is the holy grail of hi-fi. This category of people believed that "Bose" is the ultimate system because that is what has been marketed and "fed" to them as being the best.

I would take a risk here and infer that a larger majority of us (audiophiles) started out in category (2) and have thus coveted "Bose" some time or the other in our lives. Most of these audiophiles at some point later in their life realized that "Bose" is nothing but a marketing game, and have moved on to better quality products.

I can honestly say that I belong to category 2. Many moons back, Bose was my ultimate dream audio system. Today it is not. Thank you HFV !!

Best,
APK