Breaking up with Hi Fi

I can see that you enjoy the sound of a radio. For me the sound of the radio is my starting point when I set up a system. The flow and the timing is kind of perfect when you listen to a radio.
I love dosas like almost everyone else. My go to places are select Udupi restaurants, especially in Matunga, Mumbai. The choices are limited, but you get lip-smacking dosas at a song. Once you eat there you can never forget the taste and experience. Eons ago I happened to go to a dosa festival at a five star hotel with some colleagues. They held it in their lawns with over 15-20 live counters - all making dosas, of different kinds (at least 100 plus variants). And you were served in sparkling dishes and cutlery, with wide variety of chutneys and sauces to choose from. Made by chefs in majestic dresses, it was an all you could eat buffet and the atmosphere was nothing less than mesmerising.

And to be frank, the chefs were good at it. Their innovative dosas (there were even sweet/dessert dosas) ‘wow‘ed our senses and imagination! We couldn’t wait to finish the dosa in out plate before we walked to the next counter to sample that variant. In no time it became kind of a pursuit to sample as many variants as we could given only the limitation of our stomach’s capacity. But something else was happening too. After the first couple of dosas we weren’t even awarefully eating the dosa currently in our plates. With most dosas we didn’t even complete them before we took another plate and tried the next. By the end each one of us was boasting to the other of all the varieties he ate/liked. Am sure each one of us also bragged about it with our folks back at home.

But then what next? Would I visit another dosa festival again? No siree, no way! After the above experience I was looking forward the first opportunity to go back to Matunga to my favourite Udipi’s to enjoy my staple dosa, one that has remained unchanged for decades, served in those plain dishes and as modest environs as you can get while still being very hygienic.

What that Udupi dosa does to me is difficult to explain. I can vaguely describe it as a ‘home-coming’ feeling, a ‘soulful experience’. Yes, the level of satisfaction is beyond mere senses. The experience touches the emotion and the spirit too. I can eat them all my life and not get bored. And it’s not just me... talk to any hard-core Mumbaiite.

FM radio is like the Udupi restaurant dosa. It doesn’t provide you the grand choices and bells & whistles of a Tidal or Spotify, but provides a certain sound described well by @prem (incidentally FM tuner is the only analog source I have in my system) and an experience that we’ve grown on, it’s kind of a part of our system. Just the way for those from my generation, Doordarshan was, or Test cricket or an Illustrated Weekly/Mayapuri/DharmYug were. Netflix, IPL and Magzter are all fine... but they are like the five star dosa buffet. They can ‘wow’ you most of the times. But how often do they ‘move’ you?

And this is not just when it comes to the source/content, but for the system as a whole too - the reason behind my signature. An audiophile typically goes through years of pursuing sound that ‘wows’ him, a pursuit that can be termed the hi-fi pursuit. After spending years and lakhs of rupees, one of them comes to the realisation that all the wowing was ephemeral, was never lasting. What he has been missing in the process was that emotional/spiritual connect with the music - something that ‘moves‘ him at a deeper level.

And also comes the conclusion that he didn’t need all the costly equipment for this. Even an ordinary FM radio does it and probably does it better than some of the complex set of technological buffet he has bought into. And then he starts simplifying. Sifting through what’s absolutely essential and what’s merely desirable, he is able to make choices that help him derive long-lasting satisfaction and joy from the system. Something he can steadily engage with - like the Udupi restaurant - without constantly desiring to change/upgrade it. Because he has learnt from his own experience and nothing else can change it - neither the peer pressure from forums, nor the most impressive reviews in audio magazines/websites/YouTube channels.

I went through this transformation over the length of this lockdown period. Recently @firearm describes his own transformation in a thread that’s worth reading. Some of the FMs I know have been through it and it’s a palpably different experience when you interact with them as compared to others. And if you wonder if this state itself is changeable, I don’t feel so. Having come to this realisation, I am unlikely to like any sound unless it moves me the same way - now that I know what I value the most - no matter what the sophistication/price of the system is. I am ok with a system wowing me, but only if it moves me first. In short, I shall value ‘premium’ of an audiophile system only after it has justified its ‘basic’ value to me.

(And to those who’d argue that specifications, measurements, charts, curves, distortion levels et al eventually add up to great sound, I’d say ‘good for you, not for me’. For all I know, there have been singers (even classical) who were pitch perfect and highly skilled with their technical prowess - they could also wow with their taans, but could never ‘move’ the audience with their performance).
 
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I love dosas like almost everyone else. My go to places are select Udupi restaurants, especially in Matunga, Mumbai. The choices are limited, but you get lip-smacking dosas at a song. Once you eat there you can never forget the taste and experience. Eons ago I happened to go to a dosa festival at a five star hotel with some colleagues. They held it in their lawns with over 15-20 live counters - all making dosas, of different kinds (at least 100 plus variants). And you were served in sparkling dishes and cutlery, with wide variety of chutneys and sauces to choose from. Made by chefs in majestic dresses, it was an all you could eat buffet and the atmosphere was nothing less than mesmerising.

And to be frank, the chefs were good at it. Their innovative dosas (there were even sweet/dessert dosas) ‘wow‘ed our senses and imagination! We couldn’t wait to finish the dosa in out plate before we walked to the next counter to sample that variant. In no time it became kind of a pursuit to sample as many variants as we could given only the limitation of our stomach’s capacity. But something else was happening too. After the first couple of dosas we weren’t even awarefully eating the dosa currently in our plates. With most dosas we didn’t even complete them before we took another plate and tried the next. By the end each one of us was boasting to the other of all the varieties he ate/liked. Am sure each one of us also bragged about it with our folks back at home.

But then what next? Would I visit another dosa festival again? No siree, no way! After the above experience I was looking forward the first opportunity to go back to Matunga to my favourite Udipi’s to enjoy my staple dosa, one that has remained unchanged for decades, served in those plain dishes and as modest environs as you can get while still being very hygienic.

What that Udupi dosa does to me is difficult to explain. I can vaguely describe it as a ‘home-coming’ feeling, a ‘soulful experience’. Yes, the level of satisfaction is beyond mere senses. The experience touches the emotion and the spirit too. I can eat them all my life and not get bored. And it’s not just me... talk to any hard-core Mumbaiite.

FM radio is like the Udupi restaurant dosa. It doesn’t provide you the grand choices and bells & whistles of a Tidal or Spotify, but provides a certain sound described well by @prem (incidentally FM tuner is the only analog source I have in my system) and an experience that we’ve grown on, it’s kind of a part of our system. Just the way for those from my generation, Doordarshan was, or Test cricket or an Illustrated Weekly/Mayapuri/DharmYug were. Netflix, IPL and Magzter are all fine... but they are like the five star dosa buffet. They can ‘wow’ you most of the times. But how often do they ‘move’ you?

And this is not just when it comes to the source/content, but for the system as a whole too - the reason behind my signature. An audiophile typically goes through years of pursuing sound that ‘wows’ him, a pursuit that can be termed the hi-fi pursuit. After spending years and lakhs of rupees, one of them comes to the realisation that all the wowing was ephemeral, was never lasting. What he has been missing in the process was that emotional/spiritual connect with the music - something that ‘moves‘ him at a deeper level.

And also comes the conclusion that he didn’t need all the costly equipment for this. Even an ordinary FM radio does it and probably does it better than some of the complex set of technological buffet he has bought into. And then he starts simplifying. Sifting through what’s absolutely essential and what’s merely desirable, he is able to make choices that help him derive long-lasting satisfaction and joy from the system. Something he can steadily engage with - like the Udupi restaurant - without constantly desiring to change/upgrade it. Because he has learnt from his own experience and nothing else can change it - neither the peer pressure from forums, nor the most impressive reviews in audio magazines/websites/YouTube channels.

I went through this transformation over the length of this lockdown period. Recently @firearm describes his own transformation in a thread that’s worth reading. Some of the FMs I know have been through it and it’s a palpably different experience when you interact with them as compared to others. And if you wonder if this state itself is changeable, I don’t feel so. Having come to this realisation, I am unlikely to like any sound unless it moves me the same way - now that I know what I value the most - no matter what the sophistication/price of the system is. I am ok with a system wowing me, but only if it moves me first. In short, I shall value ‘premium’ of an audiophile system only after it has justified its ‘basic’ value to me.

(And to those who’d argue that specifications, measurements, charts, curves, distortion levels et al eventually add up to great sound, I’d say ‘good for you, not for me’. For all I know, there have been singers (even classical) who were pitch perfect and highly skilled with their technical prowess - they could also wow with their taans, but could never ‘move’ the audience with their performance).
Hi @SachinChavan

Very well explained. I guess now you know very well how I must be feeling.
 
Could be, I know some guys who own Luxman tuners for their reviews. Kenwood, Sansui are other well respected brands for analogue tuners. Let's see what comes first my way.
Vivek, there are a number of radio stations available on the Internet. For example look at:


You can easily stream these to your Luxman system using a PC, laptop, smartphone that you already have.

Best wishes,
 
Now you will search for a vintage tuner ....then the reception will not be clear ...so you will come to this forum and then try out everything to improve the quality of reception ....which will never work out to your satisfaction and finally you will come to the conclusion that your old system was better

Its not the equipment , but the time , money and energy that you have spent in searching , improving SQ and now maintaining which is the real source of your problem .....so you just have to stop doing that and enjoy what you have ....

This mind is very fickle ...you may even start liking your HIFI system after a few days .. I had a huge collection of audio tapes (more than 300 ) mostly Hindi film songs and then just gave it away because somewhere I lost interest in listening to those kind of songs .....now I am not getting many of those titles in CD's ...and I regret parting with them...dont throw or discard something because you have lost interest in it ....that's a temporary phase ....you will regain interest as time passes by
 
Your break didn't last too long. Tumhara kuchh nahin ho sakta! :p
Break from listening on my setup. Breaking away from HFV is hard :)

Vivek, there are a number of radio stations available on the Internet. For example look at:


You can easily stream these to your Luxman system using a PC, laptop, smartphone that you already have.

Best wishes,
I am already doing it from this web site. :). Rather from the direct source of my fav channels.

 
Hi @SachinChavan

Very well explained. I guess now you know very well how I must be feeling.
@Vivek Batra, I understood it earlier as well. And I maintain that the effort and resources you invest need to be in line with what your objectives are. And it takes any one of us a while to develop that clarity about our preferences. It helps to take it gradually therefore than going straight for an end-game system. Because the end is so very different for each one of us and takes a long time to even figure out.

In other words, I don’t go to five star hotels looking for dosas now; and since I know what kind of food and experience I like, I don’t go to five star hotels to eat at all. Instead I look for other places (different cuisines) which give me experiences comparable to Matunga Udupi. In musical terms, I keep exploring comparable options such as internet radio, since howmuchever I like the analog sound of FM through my system, I can’t listen to it all the time. And I have found some internet radio stations that aren’t high in resolution, but give me the analogish richness of FM/terrestrial radio as also the anticipation of what song’s coming next. For example Shanti Shanti station for Hindustani classical or Radio Club 40 for classic rock and so on. My CXN presets are full of handpicked stations that I find are well-curated and analogish sound. Why, I also listen to Radio Delhi Malayalam for the same reason though I don’t understand the language.

Likewise I find some streaming apps give me an experience closer to FM, without having to tolerate the RJs (though some RJs are good). For example Hungama - I have their subscription - their bouquet of radio stations are wonderful. Saregama Classical, Radio Paradise, BBC iPlayer, ClassicFM are some others - some paid, some free.

(Unlike you though I can also listen to a complete album, especially when I have undisturbed time early morning or late night. That’s the slot where my CDs come into play. But that’s not your Udupi, I understand.)
 
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One line precis of the entire thread :

The day you stop listening to your music and instead start listening to your equipment after one massive upgrade is the day you start losing your inner peace. ;)
 
Not talking specifically about Vivek here but I think there is a guilt associated with the purchase of audio equipment. The higher the cost of the equipment, the higher the guilt. This could translate into buyers remorse. Just thinking out loud.

After reading Vivek's post, I bought myself the cheapest Pre and the most value for money amp. No buyers remorse for me Sir, thank you. :)
 
The higher the cost of the equipment, the higher the guilt.

I'll grant that. Alternatively, the higher the cost of the equipment, higher the expectations. Setting the stage for inevitable disappointment.

Unless one builds a room designed for hi-fi audio reproduction, it is virtually certain that your first experience of sound from your speakers (no matter how hi-fi it is) is going to be nowhere close to its potential.
 
Not talking specifically about Vivek here but I think there is a guilt associated with the purchase of audio equipment. The higher the cost of the equipment, the higher the guilt. This could translate into buyers remorse. Just thinking out loud.

After reading Vivek's post, I bought myself the cheapest Pre and the most value for money amp. No buyers remorse for me Sir, thank you. :)
Good if someone can learn from my mistakes.
 
Many a time I have written about my NMO approach on this forum.
Needs, Means, Opportunities. Follow this and it usually works out.


Cheers,
Raghu
 
I think its more expectations than about guilt. In life we can have expectations that come and go from anything and anyone, the word guilt would be wrong to use and not appropriate. But in Vivek's case its not guilt or anything like that. I believe its that he just needs to get used to listening to audio through a hifi system. Its more about learning to listen properly rather than anything else. It just that he needs to devote some time from his side and a little dedication. He needs to spend time to understand his system. Background listening doesnt take much effort but a serious hifi system will take effort and rewards are then appropriate.

Good if someone can learn from my mistakes.
Hey man you have made no mistake, everyone on this forum has gone through the phase you are going through. Just that in your case its little early in you audiophile career so you are not able to find whats the problem. Just hang on there, not many people love audio like we as a community do.
 
Let me share my simplistic thoughts. When I am in the car, I listen to music. I don't listen to the equipment. I don't even know what the equipment is in my car. I enjoy my music. I was forwarded a clip of Love Story and with an inclusion of pictures of Ryan and Ali, 79 and 81 years old. I watched that clip on my mobile. That clip made me emotional. It brought back memories of the movie, the person I saw it with, the theater I was in etc.

If I were to hear the same song on my system at home, I would no doubt hear the song but then I would invariably listen to my system too. I would be listening to Andy Williams and thinking how great or otherwise he sounds on my system. This 'Learning to listen properly' I think takes me away from the music and into my system. (Apologies to Firearm)

Maybe there is something to learn not just for me but for all newbies on the forum from this thread. Buying (NMO :) ) , tweaking, training yourself to listen and enjoying your system is quite fine but lets not forget to lose ourselves emotionally to the music.
 
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If I were to hear the same song on my system at home, I would no doubt hear the song but then I would invariably listen to my system too. I would be listening to Andy Williams and thinking how great or otherwise he sounds on my system. This 'Learning to listen properly' I think takes me away from the music and into my system. (Apologies to Firearm)

No need to apologise here :) I think whatever you mentioned happens to everyone when we listen to music at home. But the joy we get during this journey (little little eureka moments every now and then) overshadows the pain. We need to bear some pain before we can enjoy happiness, its the rule of life. If everything was smooth and no ups and downs, we wont know what is happiness.
 
Also another I have to add is this. Make friends on the forum.
When you want to listen to something other than your home setup invite yourself to their home.
Experience different sound, components, room, and more importantly discover new music.
@SachinChavan's "dose" method (kinda) :p

Cheers,
Raghu
 
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