aashish351
Well-Known Member
Folks!
In an attempt to put together a basic HT setup, I came up with the same question; hundreds of fellow members have also faced time and again. Which budget AVR? And, the usual suspects - Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer...
I have been faced with a HT component selection challenge after a long time, having been completely engrossed in my stereo world up until recently. So, I decided to shortlist two AVRs for a home demo - Yamaha RX-V471 and Denon AVR-1612. Why not Onkyo & Pioneer? Because, Pioneer in this budget range has the VSX-821K which is a feature low model, and Onkyo... well, let's just say the other two were readily available.
My setup for the review comprises of Sony BDP-S470, Sony Playstation 3, Tata Sky HD, Panasonic PT-AE1000E, Focal JM Lab Chorus IC 706 V, Dali Ikon 6. For being brief, I will not get into detailing the feature lists and specifications, which I am sure all of you can compare side-by-side from websites. They are actually very similar products. And, I will also limit my observations to sound quality in Auto Surround & Direct Stereo Modes only. Also, both the pieces are factory sealed, so there may be a change in their performance in time, but, since this is a versus review, it matters less.
Yamaha RX-V471: I started with Yamaha because I have never heard one before, whereas, I have owned a Denon AVR-2805 and AVR-1910 in the past. I started off with the DVD of Hanna. The Focal IC 706 V are excellent 2-way coaxial ceiling speakers (Rs.8000/- a piece), custom mounted in heavy wall mounted sealed cabinets with very little internal volume. The low internal volume makes them lean, practically absent below 100 Hz, but for HT duty, I actually prefer it. All five speakers are identical. They have a very neutral, attacking sound and the inverted metal tweeter has a +/- 3dB level switch which I kept at zero of course. The subwoofer was intentionally kept off for this review. So lets find out how the Yamaha did.
Brightness! What brightness? When I asked various friends in the dealer network to describe the sound of the two, I received a standard reply Yamaha is bright, Denon is warm. Even right out of the box, the RX-V471 is not bright. Not on Focal, nor on Dali Ikon 6 (more on this later). The sound was not warm either; it was attacking, neutral, and fast. It seemed like I was listening to the Focal speakers as they are meant to sound. The Yamaha was not adding much coloration of its own. Yes, there was a slight hint of sibilance, but I am over-sensitive to sibilance and hear it in my Exposure-Dali setup also. The channel separation was excellent as well; usually, one needs to raise the level of the centre channel to hear the dialog properly in budget HT setups. That is not how it is in the movie theatre. With the Yamaha, the vocals were clear, audible and distinct without being suppressed by the loud sound effects in the background. No mean feat for a budget AVR to achieve. Remember, I have not done any YPAO setup, or channel level tweaking. This is right out of the box. The volume setting was sufficient at -12.5 dB for normal movie watching and -10dB for a little more loudness. It is a fairly gutsy receiver. I raised the volume to -5dB for a while and decided that it was louder than I needed, even in a 375 sq. ft. room. Not that it sounded any different, at that volume. The Yamaha showed decent control & headroom in the power department. I have read in another international forum, that Yamaha uses IC chip amps which will not be able to hold good against the Denons discreet power amps. Till now, I dont feel thats true, but it will be clearer after taking AVR-1612 through its paces.
Well, the experience was involving enough for us to end up watching the entire movie! My brother, who was a member of the review panel, had not seen it before. He is not an AV/Hi-Fi enthusiast, but appreciates good sound. Without being asked, he commented that the sound is good and he was enjoying enough to complete the movie.
The HDMI pass-through appeared to have made a slight deterioration to the black-levels. The dark scenes were showing a slight blue glossy reflection which was not evident by directly connecting the blu-ray player to the projector. However, this was in one particular dark scene and not observed in any other scene throughout the movie. The pass-through mode should not ideally add / subtract anything, but, it seems that is not practically true. Apart from this, there is not much to add to the video performance. And, this is not a receiver meant for any video processing in any case.
Next, I started the stereo direct mode test with Dali Ikon 6. Frankly, I was not expecting much in this area after being used to Exposure-Dali setup; however, I was pleasantly surprised! Yamaha is a decent music performer. And, the power output, a surprise again. At -15dB, Dalis were singing openly. The bass was tight and fast, treble was not harsh and reasonably detailed. Vocals were good and well integrated with the rest of the music. Of course, the fidelity, refinement & timbre of the Exposure-Dali setup cannot be recreated here, but, I will not be exaggerating when I say that, for casual music listening, Yamaha doesnt disappoint. I played the latest Lionel Richie album Tuskegee followed by the soundtrack of Rockstar. The vocals in the Endless Love duet with Shania Twain were spot-on. Willie Nelsons lean voice was also recreated accurately in Easy Like Sunday Morning. The tabla in Kaya Fun had a slight midbass boom, but, that problem in associated with my rooms midbass defect which is evident to lesser extent in the Stereo setup also. The high frequencies of the Yamaha cannot be called exactly high-fidelity, but, enjoyable nevertheless.
In conclusion, I was pleasantly surprised by the Yamahas performance. Some of the notions were easily dispelled by it, namely, lack of power and brightness. This is one hell of a budget AVR.
Denon AVR-1612: Next was the contender from the mass-favourite brand, Denon. I was taken aback by the sheer size of this AV Receiver, a good 20% bigger (bulkier) than the Yamaha, and heavier too. Keeping everything same, I replaced all the wires and connections from the Yamaha to Denon and powered it on. Yamahas display wins over the Denon, which also, incidentally, loses on looks and size (yes, I dont consider big better in HT scenario, except the screen!). On the other hand, Denons speaker connectors were bigger and better than the Yamahas slightly flimsy ones.
Moving on, played the same movie, Hanna and found out a stark difference in the sound. Not necessarily in a bad way, but much warmer than Yamaha. I guess, the general consensus about the difference in brightness levels of the two is true, but wait a minute, here is the reality (according to me) the Yamaha is actually more towards neutral and Denon is actually losing the last few high frequency details, making it sound warmer. Not any less enjoyable though, the Denon made up that in the Bass region. Good 10 to 15% more punch and loudness in bass. The same Focal Ceiling speakers, having a low end limit of 65 Hz were actually hitting near that frequency than that with Yamaha. Not my personal preference, but Bass lovers will be happy to note this. The attack and dynamics of rendering surround sound of both of them is matched with no clear winner, but, if I was forced to choose, the Yamaha will lose by a fraction of a per cent in this department to Denon.
The slight video deterioration observed in a dark scene with Yamaha was not observed with the Denon. I guess the HDMI pass-through in this case is doing a better job at pass-through.
Going to the stereo mode, my previous hunch was maintained. Denon brings with it more loudness and bass but does not bring the high frequency detail. Yes, the Dalis sound warmer now than with Yamaha, but here again, the Yamahas brightness is actually more neutrality than Denons laid-back sound. The theoretical contention of a member of the international forum was correct, that the discreet amps of the Denon will give more power, but, what was not evaluated by the member was the practical experience. Yes, the Denon has more power, but no, the Denon does not have better musicality, even at higher volumes. In fact, I observed that Yamaha maintained much of its performance characteristics at higher volumes than Denon, which started to sound slightly shouty and harsh (Harshness is not only due to Treble, Midrange can also sound harsh after distortion kicks in). Bass lovers rejoice again! Here too, Denon presents a more solid, punchy bass.
All said, as may be slightly evident from the tone of the review, I prefer the Yamaha RX-V471. I tried to be fair & unbiased through the entire process, but, since sound is a highly subjective area, the blink feeling which every human being gets initially in every decision making process, is more often than not proved correct after detailed evaluation also (recommended read, Blink by Malcolm Gladwell). The blink feeling I got was that Yamaha RX-V471 was a better overall AV Reciever than Denon AVR-1612 and that feeling was maintained after detailed evaluation also.
However, the mass-favourite Denon is only a shade lower in my personal ranking and has enough strong points to be recommended, specially, for bass lovers! One area which may change the performance is the Audissy & YPAO EQ settings, which I have not touched and probably will not for my own use also (I have some strange obsession with pure sound modes rather than tweaked settings). However, with both Receivers having the basic versions of the EQ feature, I dont expect major changes in the final outcome.
Aashish Mahindru
(These are my personal views and dont represent views of any dealer, distributor or manufacturer)
In an attempt to put together a basic HT setup, I came up with the same question; hundreds of fellow members have also faced time and again. Which budget AVR? And, the usual suspects - Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer...
I have been faced with a HT component selection challenge after a long time, having been completely engrossed in my stereo world up until recently. So, I decided to shortlist two AVRs for a home demo - Yamaha RX-V471 and Denon AVR-1612. Why not Onkyo & Pioneer? Because, Pioneer in this budget range has the VSX-821K which is a feature low model, and Onkyo... well, let's just say the other two were readily available.
My setup for the review comprises of Sony BDP-S470, Sony Playstation 3, Tata Sky HD, Panasonic PT-AE1000E, Focal JM Lab Chorus IC 706 V, Dali Ikon 6. For being brief, I will not get into detailing the feature lists and specifications, which I am sure all of you can compare side-by-side from websites. They are actually very similar products. And, I will also limit my observations to sound quality in Auto Surround & Direct Stereo Modes only. Also, both the pieces are factory sealed, so there may be a change in their performance in time, but, since this is a versus review, it matters less.
Yamaha RX-V471: I started with Yamaha because I have never heard one before, whereas, I have owned a Denon AVR-2805 and AVR-1910 in the past. I started off with the DVD of Hanna. The Focal IC 706 V are excellent 2-way coaxial ceiling speakers (Rs.8000/- a piece), custom mounted in heavy wall mounted sealed cabinets with very little internal volume. The low internal volume makes them lean, practically absent below 100 Hz, but for HT duty, I actually prefer it. All five speakers are identical. They have a very neutral, attacking sound and the inverted metal tweeter has a +/- 3dB level switch which I kept at zero of course. The subwoofer was intentionally kept off for this review. So lets find out how the Yamaha did.
Brightness! What brightness? When I asked various friends in the dealer network to describe the sound of the two, I received a standard reply Yamaha is bright, Denon is warm. Even right out of the box, the RX-V471 is not bright. Not on Focal, nor on Dali Ikon 6 (more on this later). The sound was not warm either; it was attacking, neutral, and fast. It seemed like I was listening to the Focal speakers as they are meant to sound. The Yamaha was not adding much coloration of its own. Yes, there was a slight hint of sibilance, but I am over-sensitive to sibilance and hear it in my Exposure-Dali setup also. The channel separation was excellent as well; usually, one needs to raise the level of the centre channel to hear the dialog properly in budget HT setups. That is not how it is in the movie theatre. With the Yamaha, the vocals were clear, audible and distinct without being suppressed by the loud sound effects in the background. No mean feat for a budget AVR to achieve. Remember, I have not done any YPAO setup, or channel level tweaking. This is right out of the box. The volume setting was sufficient at -12.5 dB for normal movie watching and -10dB for a little more loudness. It is a fairly gutsy receiver. I raised the volume to -5dB for a while and decided that it was louder than I needed, even in a 375 sq. ft. room. Not that it sounded any different, at that volume. The Yamaha showed decent control & headroom in the power department. I have read in another international forum, that Yamaha uses IC chip amps which will not be able to hold good against the Denons discreet power amps. Till now, I dont feel thats true, but it will be clearer after taking AVR-1612 through its paces.
Well, the experience was involving enough for us to end up watching the entire movie! My brother, who was a member of the review panel, had not seen it before. He is not an AV/Hi-Fi enthusiast, but appreciates good sound. Without being asked, he commented that the sound is good and he was enjoying enough to complete the movie.
The HDMI pass-through appeared to have made a slight deterioration to the black-levels. The dark scenes were showing a slight blue glossy reflection which was not evident by directly connecting the blu-ray player to the projector. However, this was in one particular dark scene and not observed in any other scene throughout the movie. The pass-through mode should not ideally add / subtract anything, but, it seems that is not practically true. Apart from this, there is not much to add to the video performance. And, this is not a receiver meant for any video processing in any case.
Next, I started the stereo direct mode test with Dali Ikon 6. Frankly, I was not expecting much in this area after being used to Exposure-Dali setup; however, I was pleasantly surprised! Yamaha is a decent music performer. And, the power output, a surprise again. At -15dB, Dalis were singing openly. The bass was tight and fast, treble was not harsh and reasonably detailed. Vocals were good and well integrated with the rest of the music. Of course, the fidelity, refinement & timbre of the Exposure-Dali setup cannot be recreated here, but, I will not be exaggerating when I say that, for casual music listening, Yamaha doesnt disappoint. I played the latest Lionel Richie album Tuskegee followed by the soundtrack of Rockstar. The vocals in the Endless Love duet with Shania Twain were spot-on. Willie Nelsons lean voice was also recreated accurately in Easy Like Sunday Morning. The tabla in Kaya Fun had a slight midbass boom, but, that problem in associated with my rooms midbass defect which is evident to lesser extent in the Stereo setup also. The high frequencies of the Yamaha cannot be called exactly high-fidelity, but, enjoyable nevertheless.
In conclusion, I was pleasantly surprised by the Yamahas performance. Some of the notions were easily dispelled by it, namely, lack of power and brightness. This is one hell of a budget AVR.
Denon AVR-1612: Next was the contender from the mass-favourite brand, Denon. I was taken aback by the sheer size of this AV Receiver, a good 20% bigger (bulkier) than the Yamaha, and heavier too. Keeping everything same, I replaced all the wires and connections from the Yamaha to Denon and powered it on. Yamahas display wins over the Denon, which also, incidentally, loses on looks and size (yes, I dont consider big better in HT scenario, except the screen!). On the other hand, Denons speaker connectors were bigger and better than the Yamahas slightly flimsy ones.
Moving on, played the same movie, Hanna and found out a stark difference in the sound. Not necessarily in a bad way, but much warmer than Yamaha. I guess, the general consensus about the difference in brightness levels of the two is true, but wait a minute, here is the reality (according to me) the Yamaha is actually more towards neutral and Denon is actually losing the last few high frequency details, making it sound warmer. Not any less enjoyable though, the Denon made up that in the Bass region. Good 10 to 15% more punch and loudness in bass. The same Focal Ceiling speakers, having a low end limit of 65 Hz were actually hitting near that frequency than that with Yamaha. Not my personal preference, but Bass lovers will be happy to note this. The attack and dynamics of rendering surround sound of both of them is matched with no clear winner, but, if I was forced to choose, the Yamaha will lose by a fraction of a per cent in this department to Denon.
The slight video deterioration observed in a dark scene with Yamaha was not observed with the Denon. I guess the HDMI pass-through in this case is doing a better job at pass-through.
Going to the stereo mode, my previous hunch was maintained. Denon brings with it more loudness and bass but does not bring the high frequency detail. Yes, the Dalis sound warmer now than with Yamaha, but here again, the Yamahas brightness is actually more neutrality than Denons laid-back sound. The theoretical contention of a member of the international forum was correct, that the discreet amps of the Denon will give more power, but, what was not evaluated by the member was the practical experience. Yes, the Denon has more power, but no, the Denon does not have better musicality, even at higher volumes. In fact, I observed that Yamaha maintained much of its performance characteristics at higher volumes than Denon, which started to sound slightly shouty and harsh (Harshness is not only due to Treble, Midrange can also sound harsh after distortion kicks in). Bass lovers rejoice again! Here too, Denon presents a more solid, punchy bass.
All said, as may be slightly evident from the tone of the review, I prefer the Yamaha RX-V471. I tried to be fair & unbiased through the entire process, but, since sound is a highly subjective area, the blink feeling which every human being gets initially in every decision making process, is more often than not proved correct after detailed evaluation also (recommended read, Blink by Malcolm Gladwell). The blink feeling I got was that Yamaha RX-V471 was a better overall AV Reciever than Denon AVR-1612 and that feeling was maintained after detailed evaluation also.
However, the mass-favourite Denon is only a shade lower in my personal ranking and has enough strong points to be recommended, specially, for bass lovers! One area which may change the performance is the Audissy & YPAO EQ settings, which I have not touched and probably will not for my own use also (I have some strange obsession with pure sound modes rather than tweaked settings). However, with both Receivers having the basic versions of the EQ feature, I dont expect major changes in the final outcome.
Aashish Mahindru
(These are my personal views and dont represent views of any dealer, distributor or manufacturer)
