DAC Dilemma :)

Q Acoustics M20 HD wireless music system
I think mojo does not have any line out. Connecting a headphone amplifier out to active speakers - hmmm that seems interesting. I wonder how good the end results would be?

As the speakers are already active ones, I think a 1.5 to 2 vrms line out from any dac should be enough to drive them, provided there is an active or passive preamp present in chain.
 
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saikatbiswas82 said:
I think mojo does not have any line out. Connecting a headphone amplifier out to active speakers - hmmm that seems interesting. I wonder how good the end results would be?

As the speakers are already active ones, I think a 1.5 to 2 vrms line out from any dac should be enough to drive them, provided there is an active or passive preamp present in chain.
Click to expand...

There is a setting in Mojo which will convert the normal Headphone out to Line-Out which will be constant @ 3V.
 
music4mhell said:
There is a setting in Mojo which will convert the normal Headphone out to Line-Out which will be constant @ 3V.
Click to expand...

So in short, chord engineers managed to put these things in a tiny little package:

1. USB to I2S converter
2. DAC
3. Headphone Amplifier
4. A digital switch (probably) to switch between line out and headphone out

Interesting....very interesting. :)
 
saikatbiswas82 said:
So in short, chord engineers managed to put these things in a tiny little package:

1. USB to I2S converter
2. DAC
3. Headphone Amplifier
4. A digital switch (probably) to switch between line out and headphone out

Interesting....very interesting. :)
Click to expand...

You are right except the last part.
When you turn on the Line out, it doesn't disconnect from Headphone out, it is just the Headphone out at max. volume.
This is the only negative point which i can think of.
But i am ready to compromise on this part as it will give input to my Active speakers not a power hungry Power AMP :D

This is from Chord Manual -
"Line Level Mode
To set the output level to 3V ( line level ) for connection to a preamplifier press both volume buttons
together when switching on the unit. Both volume balls will illuminate light blue. This mode is not
remembered so when you switch off it will reset back to the previous volume stored for safety reasons."
 
@music4mhell

Revisit Schiit and you can save some money
they have a wide range of mix and match options

How many OPT/COAX/USB do you need?
Do you need HP AMP?
Do you need VOL control and switch?

Schiit has simpler solutions to all the above, but in separate little boxes

Cheers,
Raghu
 
raghupb said:
@music4mhell

Revisit Schiit and you can save some money
they have a wide range of mix and match options

How many OPT/COAX/USB do you need?
Do you need HP AMP?
Do you need VOL control and switch?

Schiit has simpler solutions to all the above, but in separate little boxes

Cheers,
Raghu
Click to expand...

i dont have any requirement, i just need a good dac.

The good thing about Chord mojo is that i can use for my mobile in my office.
 
Hmmm ... If I break it down it looks like this.

Chord Mojo $599 (US MRP)
USB/COAX/OPT inputs; rechargeable battery

Schiit Modi-2-Uber $149 (US MRP) (Modi-2 is $99 only USB)
USB/COAX/OPT inputs; wall-wart PS (extra PS is $10)
Schiit Magni-2-Uber $149 (US MRP)
Headphone AMP with Pre-amp output to drive amp or active speakers

I have not heard Mojo so cannot comment on its sonic ability (will give it benefit of doubt)
Chord pros:
DAC and HP Amp all-in-one with easy mobility
Brand name and quality
Chord cons:
Battery (battery will degrade after 2-3 years; Li-Ion have a lifespan)
Will it drive active speakers, maybe as you have researched
Higher price

I have the Schiit DAC and it is good. HP Amp don't know (will give it benefit of doubt)
Schiit Pros:
Lower Price; modi/magni uber is $300; modi/magni is $200
Magni-2-Uber has pre-out and vol control
Modi-2 has line out
both can be connected to active speaker with or without vol control
Extra PS is only $10 for dual location usage
Schiit Cons:
2 units and more wires
Internet only Brand

If you want to listen to Modi-2, PM me. We both are in BLR

Cheers,
Raghu
 
raghupb said:
Hmmm ... If I break it down it looks like this.

Chord Mojo $599 (US MRP)
USB/COAX/OPT inputs; rechargeable battery

Schiit Modi-2-Uber $149 (US MRP) (Modi-2 is $99 only USB)
USB/COAX/OPT inputs; wall-wart PS (extra PS is $10)
Schiit Magni-2-Uber $149 (US MRP)
Headphone AMP with Pre-amp output to drive amp or active speakers

I have not heard Mojo so cannot comment on its sonic ability (will give it benefit of doubt)
Chord pros:
DAC and HP Amp all-in-one with easy mobility
Brand name and quality
Chord cons:
Battery (battery will degrade after 2-3 years; Li-Ion have a lifespan)
Will it drive active speakers, maybe as you have researched
Higher price

I have the Schiit DAC and it is good. HP Amp don't know (will give it benefit of doubt)
Schiit Pros:
Lower Price; modi/magni uber is $300; modi/magni is $200
Magni-2-Uber has pre-out and vol control
Modi-2 has line out
both can be connected to active speaker with or without vol control
Extra PS is only $10 for dual location usage
Schiit Cons:
2 units and more wires
Internet only Brand

If you want to listen to Modi-2, PM me. We both are in BLR

Cheers,
Raghu
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot lot for such comparison.
I have done that already :D before coming to Chord Mojo.
There is a small correction : Chord use Li-Po nit Li-On.

As you have already pointed out all details, i think you can suggest which 1 i should go for.

a Small FYI -- Chord Mojo sounds better than Gungnir Multibit.

Obviously i do a lot research before buying anything.
I was about to buy Audiolab M-Dac(69K), but now i have to for long 2/3 months, because the Chord dealer said it will take 2/3 months to procure.

Now you can guess how much i am excited/crazy/mad to get hands on this "Chord Mojo".

Even the Mojo would have priced at $1000, i would have bought easily. :eek:hyeah::eek:hyeah:

Another small fact, every other DAC company in this world has a dedicated DAC chip (Burr brown. wolfson, Ess sabre, AKM, PCM, Cirrus Logic), but Chord use programmable software to decode, they don;t have any DAC chip(Xilinx Artix-7 FPGA programmable logic array chip).

And not to mention it can decode PCM 44.1kHz ~ 768kHz, DSD 64 / DSD 128 / DSD 256 (DoP) even Schiit Gungnir doesn't play DSD.

Anyways thanks for explanation, now i am just waiting and waiting and waiting for Mojo to arrive India :D
 
If Chord Mojo sounded good to your ears, then there is no doubt you have made the right choice.

Interesting that they are using FPGA. It is still HW but more flexible. I wonder if it is for future upgrades. I agree that with FPGA, they have the luxury of supporting a wider variety of sampling and DSD.

Good luck with your purchase. Enjoy when it comes after 2 months.

Cheers,
Raghu
 
raghupb said:
If Chord Mojo sounded good to your ears, then there is no doubt you have made the right choice.

Interesting that they are using FPGA. It is still HW but more flexible. I wonder if it is for future upgrades. I agree that with FPGA, they have the luxury of supporting a wider variety of sampling and DSD.

Good luck with your purchase. Enjoy when it comes after 2 months.

Cheers,
Raghu
Click to expand...

I have ZERO knowledge about any technology and i haven't heard Chord till now.

But i can blindly buy any Chord product, because they are doing something different with different technology.
That's the reason they are priced insanely :(, Mojo is the first product which is targeted towards Consumer segment :)

To be frank, i don't know how will i manage to spend 2/3 months :( without a DAC.
 
FPGA is still a chip. It just allows for flexible implementation of HW as compared to dedicated DAC chips. The solution will still require an opamp/gain stage at the analog section outside the FPGA. FPGA allows for upgrade and fixes if that's how the company is thinking. Cost may be higher due to FPGA. They don't come cheap.

Cheers,
Raghu
 
raghupb said:
FPGA is still a chip. It just allows for flexible implementation of HW as compared to dedicated DAC chips. The solution will still require an opamp/gain stage at the analog section outside the FPGA. FPGA allows for upgrade and fixes if that's how the company is thinking. Cost may be higher due to FPGA. They don't come cheap.

Cheers,
Raghu
Click to expand...

Thanks for explaining that. I don't know about future upgrades.
One thing for sure, i can tell from my readings that Chord DACs sounds better than other DACs in every aspect :sad:

I didn't find a single negative comment over internet on Chord DAC's sound quality.

Small quotes from Rob Watts :

"Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewH13 View Post


Just a thought. Why do other DAC/headphone amps have amp sections when Hugo/Mojo get by without one, and many including Chord say it is more transparent? Have Chord got the patent for ampless amps :)

Because they can't using chip based DAC's. Chip DAC's have two current outputs. So you need two I to V converters (amps) then a differential to single ended amp, then a headphone buffer to deliver the current. You also need a lot of analogue filtering wrapped around these amps. So why are normal DAC's so complex in the analogue domain? Two reasons:

1. Silicon DAC's are horribly noisy, as the substrate and grounds are bouncing around due to switching activity. So to counter this, it is done differentially, which means the ground noise is cancelled. It also hides the problems of the reference circuitry, which can't be made with low enough impedance on silicon. This translates to more distortion, and crucially noise floor modulation.

2. Delta sigma converters run at low rates - best is at 12 MHz - this means that there is a lot of noise that must be aggressively filtered out in the analogue section. This also applies with R2R DAC's too as these have even worse problems due to the very slow switching speed.

So to run with a single amp section you need the DAC to be single ended and to run the noise shapers at much higher rates to reduce your filtering requirements. Because the analogue section with Mojo is discrete, I can use extremely low impedance and low noise reference supplies - something that is impossible on silicon. This has the other benefit of eliminating noise floor modulation (actually there is a lot more to it than this as there are countless other sources of noise floor modulation in a DAC). To make the filtering easier, the pulse array noise shapers run at 104MHz - over an order of magnitude faster than normal. There are other benefits to running the noise shapers at 104MHz, principally the resolving power of the noise shaper. Now soundstage depth is determined by how accurately small signals are reproduced. The problem with noise shaping is that small signals get lost - any signal below the noise shaper noise floor is lost information. But by running the noise shaper at much faster rates you solve this problem too - indeed Mojo noise shapers exceed 200dB THD and noise digital performance - that's a thousand times more resolving power than high end DAC's.

If I get time today I hope to publish noise floor modulation measurements showing Mojo has zero measured noise floor modulation. This level of performance does not happen on any other non pulse array DAC's at any price, and its the primary reason why Mojo sounds so smooth and musical.

Rob"
 
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Find a MATCHING combination for YOUR Ears! that's all!

All the best for the upcoming Chord Mojo! :clapping:

I've bought irDAC from our FM, srisaikat. I felt an immediate upgrade over my CA Dacmagic PLUS in my CURRENT setup. I would like to emphasize that all these audio components has some sort of synergy - matching is very important - so as audition is very very important before adding anything in audio chain!

I've bought few of my components without proper audition, that lead to further double purchase. Luckily most of my purchase were second hand/ from our fellow FMs - except my Marantz PM6004.

I bought my Dacmagic PLUS blindly as this was my very first DAC - but soon I felt the lack of depth that I was looking/ hoping for. Then came irDAC - wow what a difference, I compare it with a rich full warm sound coming from a good tube amp in my friend's place - well, close to it, but with more added details ;) .

The same CA Dacmagic Plus is performing better with a NAD amp and a pair of vintage 3-way speaker with 10" woofer. Now, I believe in speaker/ amp matching, DAC matching and also CABLE/ Interconnect matching!! - A pair of old non branded audio cable was totally different sound signature than the basic cables that I purchased new. The CHORD Crimson VEE3 was performing differently in both system. Huhh... can't all these produce by one manufacture, in same series.. like few matching CDP/ Amp they do and those good old pre-power combo. Just add Speakers/ interconnects too.. then we should get good matched products?? :rolleyes:

But again, music/ sound is personal! its up to your preference. If you go by theory, the actual hearing process is extremely complex. No two people hear the same. Sounds may or may not be shown as identical but the listener is having the sound analysed by a brain, which of course is totally different from every other brain, it is also the sum of all experiences :rolleyes:

Putting it simply, Find a system that SOUNDS BEST to YOU!

Now I can listen to my music in good volumes for long hours, and also well detailed in low volumes too. I can feel the depth of 'Yesudas' vocals and nice timbre of Dire Straits, Eric Clapton, Eagles, etc. to AR Rahman, old Bollywood film songs, Malayalam, Tamil and all sort of my collection. One thing I noticed is that I'm even enjoying my old mp3 collection, streaming music from TuneIn radio, You tube music videos from TV, etc also along with my FLAC collection of the ACDs that I've ripped to my computer.

The irDAC is the music hub for me - connected TV via optical, Blu-ray player (for CDs) via coaxial, Computer via USB (MusicBee player, with ASIO settings through Arcam's USB 2 driver for FLACs and MP3s). See my stereo setup in the signature below.

Cheers! and have a great Year ahead with lots of nice music sessions!!
 
I'm thinking of buying either the Chord Mojo or the Fiio X7 DAP for my headphones. And I'm lost whether to get a DAP or a DAC/Amp... I really do not want to buy a DAP and then again invest into a DAC/Amp for that DAP.. Any ideas guys?

@music4mhell
How much the Chord Mojo would probably cost? If it's around INR 40k then I'd be in a dilemma whether to buy the Fiio X7 (INR 43k) or the Chord Mojo..
Everything I've read online about the Chord Mojo is good.. but it doesn't have onboard storage which I'd get in Fiio X7..
On the other hand, the only thing keeping me from buying Fiio X7 is that it can't be used as a USB DAC..
 
Anish H said:
I'm thinking of buying either the Chord Mojo or the Fiio X7 DAP for my headphones. And I'm lost whether to get a DAP or a DAC/Amp... I really do not want to buy a DAP and then again invest into a DAC/Amp for that DAP.. Any ideas guys?

@music4mhell
How much the Chord Mojo would probably cost? If it's around INR 40k then I'd be in a dilemma whether to buy the Fiio X7 (INR 43k) or the Chord Mojo..
Everything I've read online about the Chord Mojo is good.. but it doesn't have onboard storage which I'd get in Fiio X7..
On the other hand, the only thing keeping me from buying Fiio X7 is that it can't be used as a USB DAC..
Click to expand...

I just reached Blore, i am going to buy the Mojo today will share the price by evening.

I will mostly use Mojo as a desktop DAC for my Genelecs and then will buy a good Headphone and IEM later on.

As i am going to buy mojo, i shouldn't say much about this.

I can just say, Chord DACS are like Tesla in Car industry.
They are doing differently which very few company is doing in DAC industry.

I hope you got my Analogy :)
 
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