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Dac dq

Wharfedale EVO4.4

sound_cycle

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Hi,

The audiolab DAC and network player has got me all excited Network Players & Receivers : Audiolab Q-DAC + Audiolab M-NET Combo

DQs, in the interest of sanity

1. Any FM reviews on the QDAC - searched and did not find, I am trying to figure out if it would be a significant upgrade over the DAC I have in my PM 6005

2. What is the use case for the M-NET ? I play my music off a SSD/ USB stick off a WDTVlive and send via optical to the DAC input in the amp. will this make life and listening all enhanced and better

3. Would it make sense to get the DAC only

and ofc 4. will this spend make my speakers and amp sound cheap, in which case I will simply drag my rock over my hole :eek:

ciao
gr
 

musicbee

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The M-NET does not do it for me.

For 32K you can...
1. Buy a HTIB.
2. Buy a used AVR or increase budget for a new AVR.
3. Build a HTPC.
4. Buy multiple media players.

all of which will give more functionality and features as a network player/streamer and in addition do a lot more (especially in the case of a HTPC or media players).

For streaming music, lots of helpful tips/pointers in this thread and most of them are dirt cheap too.
http://www.hifivision.com/media-streaming-players/56483-setup-streaming-music.html
 

sound_cycle

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1. Any FM reviews on the QDAC - searched and did not find, I am trying to figure out if it would be a significant upgrade over the DAC I have in my PM 6005
<snip>
4. will this spend make my speakers and amp sound cheap, in which case I will simply drag my rock over my hole :eek:
Hi

Since I asked this question the WDTVlive has been replaced with a music pc.

And then this asynchronous USB (vs optical spdif), better DAC thing which was a faint itch is gradually developing into a persistent one.

I was thinking in terms of the schiit bifrost, but now there seems to be a "scratch" available right here.

Regrettably I have not been able to hear either DAC, let alone with my rig.

Would appreciate comments, esp from fm who have heard the QDAC and the PM6005 on 1) and 4)

edit: the mdac is well out of budget (as is the bifrost in INR prices for that matter - 60K! ), The Mdac has a whole lot of things I cannot use/ don't need, balanced outputs, more inputs than i need.

ciao
gr
 
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sound_cycle

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I was thinking in terms of the schiit bifrost
Thought of getting the bifrost uber the cart2india way (to save myself the customs clearance hassles wala logic)

And hit a snag.

The bifrost is available with europlug and 230V options on their website.

cart2india say that their suppliers can offer the US version only :sad:

Amazon.in offers the same device for some 5K INR extra without any options to specify voltage.

So will have to wait for someone I know to go visit the US ....

ciao
gr
 

manniraj

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Thought of getting the bifrost uber the cart2india way (to save myself the customs clearance hassles wala logic)

And hit a snag.

The bifrost is available with europlug and 230V options on their website.

cart2india say that their suppliers can offer the US version only :sad:

Amazon.in offers the same device for some 5K INR extra without any options to specify voltage.

So will have to wait for someone I know to go visit the US ....

ciao
gr
I am not sure why cart2india says that they can only book the US voltage version. They directly book the item on the Schiit site where you can choose the required voltage. I think they are similar to ishopinternational or borderlinx type agencies who on behalf of the customer book the items in US and get it delivered to their warehouses in US and then send it back to India and get the customs clearance and ship it to your address. You can try other sites who do the same job but if you can get it by hand through someone coming down to India then its the best bet.
 

sound_cycle

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thanks for the pointer.

the wait has officially begun.

how long typically ? from isi

ciao
gr
 

manniraj

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thanks for the pointer.

the wait has officially begun.

how long typically ? from isi

ciao
gr
Typically 1 to 2 weeks time frame as these guys consolidate multiple orders and send it to India to save costs (thats the margins they get I think). I got one of orders within a weeks time and another one took 2 weeks and the delay was due to the bluedart courier from Mumbai as they said unable to deliver to Bangalore (my address :lol:). I had to blast them then they delivered it as they resent the parcel back to ishop.
 

sound_cycle

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Why doesn't Schiit release jitter numbers for any of their DACs?


Because it's a huge conspiracy! Because it's 120,000 ps! Because we're incompetent engineers! Because we're under contract from the US government to maximize the amount of jitter in our systems to mask the subliminal messages broadcast by Cthulu and the Elder Gods thanks to their awakening in 1945 by the first atomic tests!

Or, er, well, none of the above. The reality is a lot more complex. Three reasons, really:

1. If you're familiar with the CS8416 datasheet, you won't be too surprised by Bifrost's jitter numbers.

2. Jitter isn't necessarily the be-all end-all one true measurement for digital audio. And it's easy to misinterpret. For example, the RMS jitter number for our USB input is lower than SPDIF (as you'd expect), but the spectrum is entirely different. What's most important?

3. Jitter is hard to measure accurately at low levels. Most people would have you think it's as simple as hooking it up to the AP or DScope and getting a chart out. But hey, let's look at the AP and Dscope's residual jitter numbers: 600ps for the AP 27XX and 1000ps for the AP 525x and Dscope. Not exactly 1ps territory, hmm? That's why we have not one, but two Stanford Research SR1 audio analyzers, one kitted out with Option 3 and 4 (1ppm internal reference and ultra-low jitter analyzer with 8ps residual jitter.) The only better option for measuring jitter than the full-kit Stanford is a $30,000 piece of gear that only measures jitter, which will get you down to 2ps or so.

Bottom line, yeah, we'll eventually have some properly-caveated numbers for Gungnir, but we don't think people should be buying gear based on one single measurement. And Anaxilus, if you'd like to do some measurements after release, feel free! It'll be interesting to see how they correlate with our own, and it'll give me more confidence if they're in concurrence.

PS: And, no discussion of jitter would be complete without noting that Mike Moffat was one of the first people to theorize jitter was a cause of digital audio degradation, was one of the first to measure it back in the 1980s, and was the first to use VCO PLLs to regenerate clocks and reduce jitter. It's not like we just fell off of the turnip truck here"

Schiit DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir down, one to go)? The information and anticipation thread. - Page 186

Because that made me laugh

ciao
gr
 

sound_cycle

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Typically 1 to 2 weeks time frame as these guys consolidate multiple orders and send it to India to save costs
Just to close the thread.

Ordered on 19th via ishopinternational. the bifrost (see I have read schiit happened) was shipped from the US by ishop on the 24th and I received it yesterday.

ciao
gr
 

manniraj

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Just to close the thread.

Ordered on 19th via ishopinternational. the bifrost (see I have read schiit happened) was shipped from the US by ishop on the 24th and I received it yesterday.

ciao
gr
Great, congrats and please post your views on the quality of the DAC :clapping:
 

shibashis

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A detailed 'impression' is called for, especially how it is compared to the 6005's built in one, we are all waiting. :)
 

sound_cycle

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You can't close just yet;)

We still await your impressions:)
A detailed 'impression' is called for, especially how it is compared to the 6005's built in one, we are all waiting. :)
:eek:. At the moment am kind of overwhelmed by the bifrost. 52nd street is one of my fav albums. the opening of "half a mile away" is so much better than i have ever heard it

With four hours of listening I'm grinning ear to ear.

FM Kaushik should be dropping by for a listen this weekend. That should be sanity check on whether this satisfaction is based on something real.

It is and improvement. And I think a big one.

I had two expectations 1) better bass 2) better imaging [and also 3) greedy thoughts of vast overall improvement. Relative to my previous setup that is ofc. 1 and 3 seem to have been realized. The 'net says ki sau ghante ke burn in ke baad hi praapti hogi. I am content to wait.

Will try and describe things a little better

Oh and with the way the cymbals shimmer, I'm begining to feel a rethink, with some measurement of my room treatment is in order.

ciao
gr
 

shibashis

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Fantastic to know. :)
It is quite something when you realize how much better it can be and when it is money well spent. Glad that you are so happy with the upgrade.
Speaking of money spent, how much was the damage exactly?
 

sound_cycle

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Fantastic to know. :)
<snip>when it is money well spent. <snip>how much was the damage exactly?
thanks :)

the jury is out on that, but from this experience I think the second biggest thing to make a difference to sound is the DAC. I wish I had a house with a living room custom designed for audio :rolleyes:

~ 40K. I did not get the USB ver. PM-ed gory details

ciao
gr
 

sound_cycle

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FM Koushik should be dropping by for a listen this weekend. That should be sanity check on whether this satisfaction is based on something real.

It is and improvement. And I think a big one.
About 20 hrs of play time on the DAC.

The DACs I have heard so far on my system, Sony DVD player, WDTVlive, Sony EX300, Fiio TAISHAN-D03K (and the ODAC which ironhorse/ Aman though that was with my 2605s only).

At various points in time I was perfectly happy with each of them till the next better one came along.

Oh the Sony PS3 too.

After the PM6005 none of them were interesting. The sound stage was wider, things sounded better and I was happy with the sound. It was like going from a P&S to a DSLR.

Then the Schiit happened.

and it has been like going from a kit lens to say L.There is no going back to any of them DACs I liked earlier.

Koushik was over for a listen earlier today. We briefly disconnected the Bifrost and pumped a digital input into the PM6005, to listen to a couple of tracks after listening to the Bifrost for half and hour or so.

With Bifrost, the sound stage is much wider, the detail much more, the bass is much more tuneful, cymbals shimmerier and it all comes together in a somehow nicer way.

The 6005 is more of a girl and guitar DAC, with GNR it got all confused and produced a smear of sound, Bifrost rocks it.

I have the Ultimate Demonstration Disc: Chesky Records' Guide to Critical Listening (from itunes). The track includes the Festival Te Deum/ Westminster Abbey Choir to demo holographic imaging. It works !

Would be interesting to read Koushik's impression :)

ciao
gr
 
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